Talk:UFO Detection - Revision history

Volutar: /* Ranges info is so wrong */

2014-07-15T12:03:09Z

Ranges info is so wrong

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:03, 15 July 2014
Line 494:		Line 494:

	1. XCOM uses simple 3d distance formula for distances, with 2048 as maximum distance (sphere diameter).		1. XCOM uses simple 3d distance formula for distances, with 2048 as maximum distance (sphere diameter).

	2. All ingame distances are presented in this XCOM units		2. All ingame distances are presented in this XCOM units
	xcom craft = 200		* xcom craft = 200
	small radar = 500		* small radar = 500
	large radar = 750		* large radar = 750
	hyperwave = 800		* hyperwave = 800
	alien craft (for the retaliation) = 80		* alien craft (for the retaliation) = 80

	Obviously these values can't be converted into miles or kilometers with simple multiplication.		Obviously these values can't be converted into miles or kilometers with simple multiplication.
Line 514:		Line 515:

	With this script applied actual values are:		With this script applied actual values are:
	xcom craft = 672.50673939412nm		* xcom craft = 672.50673939412nm
	small radar = 1695.7263642837nm		* small radar = 1695.7263642837nm
	large radar = 2577.8549855921nm		* large radar = 2577.8549855921nm
	hyperwave = 2759.2073177146nm		* hyperwave = 2759.2073177146nm
	alien craft (for the retaliation) = 268.64231530099nm		* alien craft (for the retaliation) = 268.64231530099nm
	--[[User:Volutar\|Volutar]] ([[User talk:Volutar\|talk]]) 08:01, 15 July 2014 (EDT)		--[[User:Volutar\|Volutar]] ([[User talk:Volutar\|talk]]) 08:01, 15 July 2014 (EDT)

Volutar: /* Ranges info is so wrong */ new section

2014-07-15T12:01:49Z

Ranges info is so wrong: new section

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:01, 15 July 2014
Line 490:		Line 490:

	My answer is probably already mentioned somewhere, but tl;dr and all that. Of the three detection types, are the radar checks done independently? That is, with a large radar, will it do two 20% checks for any UFOs when they are within the short range radius considering the long range radius also overlaps it? And if you had all three radar types in your base, would that mean three checks are done in the short range and two in the long range? I know that last one is a bit redundant considering the HDW's 100% rate, but still wondering if the checks are made. [[User:NKF\|NKF]] ([[User talk:NKF\|talk]]) 18:04, 3 January 2014 (EST)		My answer is probably already mentioned somewhere, but tl;dr and all that. Of the three detection types, are the radar checks done independently? That is, with a large radar, will it do two 20% checks for any UFOs when they are within the short range radius considering the long range radius also overlaps it? And if you had all three radar types in your base, would that mean three checks are done in the short range and two in the long range? I know that last one is a bit redundant considering the HDW's 100% rate, but still wondering if the checks are made. [[User:NKF\|NKF]] ([[User talk:NKF\|talk]]) 18:04, 3 January 2014 (EST)

			== Ranges info is so wrong ==

			1. XCOM uses simple 3d distance formula for distances, with 2048 as maximum distance (sphere diameter).
			2. All ingame distances are presented in this XCOM units
			xcom craft = 200
			small radar = 500
			large radar = 750
			hyperwave = 800
			alien craft (for the retaliation) = 80

			Obviously these values can't be converted into miles or kilometers with simple multiplication.

			php script for conversion:
			$lenis=$_GET['val'];
			$radius=1024;
			$nm=1.85230925926;
			$earthradius=6367.7701745135;
			$result=asin($lenis/(2$radius))2*$earthradius;
			echo 'earth radius = '.$earthradius.'km; ';
			echo '1nm = '.$nm.'km; ';
			echo $lenis.' xcom units (3d distance) => (geodesic) '.$result.'km = '.$result/$nm.'nm => '.$result/$earthradius;

			With this script applied actual values are:
			xcom craft = 672.50673939412nm
			small radar = 1695.7263642837nm
			large radar = 2577.8549855921nm
			hyperwave = 2759.2073177146nm
			alien craft (for the retaliation) = 268.64231530099nm
			--[[User:Volutar\|Volutar]] ([[User talk:Volutar\|talk]]) 08:01, 15 July 2014 (EDT)

NKF: /* Radar ping overlaps? */ new section

2014-01-03T23:04:13Z

Radar ping overlaps?: new section

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:04, 3 January 2014
Line 486:		Line 486:

	[[User:Spike\|Spike]] 12:18, 24 March 2008 (PDT)		[[User:Spike\|Spike]] 12:18, 24 March 2008 (PDT)

			== Radar ping overlaps? ==

			My answer is probably already mentioned somewhere, but tl;dr and all that. Of the three detection types, are the radar checks done independently? That is, with a large radar, will it do two 20% checks for any UFOs when they are within the short range radius considering the long range radius also overlaps it? And if you had all three radar types in your base, would that mean three checks are done in the short range and two in the long range? I know that last one is a bit redundant considering the HDW's 100% rate, but still wondering if the checks are made. [[User:NKF\|NKF]] ([[User talk:NKF\|talk]]) 18:04, 3 January 2014 (EST)

Zombie: /* Playing With No Detection */ Relinking.

2008-12-17T21:31:55Z

Playing With No Detection: Relinking.

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:31, 17 December 2008
Line 376:		Line 376:
	::: Or maybe we have to wait for one to crash of its own accord, Roswell style, before we can unlock the mysteries of space travel... :) But would it be possible to "milk" the base - deliberately lose the mission - but still extract the Navigation from the control room? E.g. avoid killing all the aliens and reach the exit with it? Tricky. Or a soldier picks the Navigation item up before the aliens are all dead? Actually I don't know if a UFO Navigation can be carried. [[User:Spike\|Spike]] 12:32, 6 March 2008 (PST)		::: Or maybe we have to wait for one to crash of its own accord, Roswell style, before we can unlock the mysteries of space travel... :) But would it be possible to "milk" the base - deliberately lose the mission - but still extract the Navigation from the control room? E.g. avoid killing all the aliens and reach the exit with it? Tricky. Or a soldier picks the Navigation item up before the aliens are all dead? Actually I don't know if a UFO Navigation can be carried. [[User:Spike\|Spike]] 12:32, 6 March 2008 (PST)

	::No, UFO Navigation items cannot be picked up and carried, nor can UFO Power Sources or Alien Alloys. However, as for milking the base, you can raid the [[Supply ~~Ship~~]]s as they come, or you can do the extraordinarily dangerous [[Alien_Base#Smash_And_Grab\|alien base smash and grab]]. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft\|Arrow Quivershaft]] 13:00, 6 March 2008 (PST)		::No, UFO Navigation items cannot be picked up and carried, nor can UFO Power Sources or Alien Alloys. However, as for milking the base, you can raid the [[Supply ship\|Supply Ships]] as they come, or you can do the extraordinarily dangerous [[Alien_Base#Smash_And_Grab\|alien base smash and grab]]. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft\|Arrow Quivershaft]] 13:00, 6 March 2008 (PST)

	: Without radars, you'd have to rely on the Skyranger's extraordinary ability to stay up in the air for yonks, and its own radar to pick up the supply ships. Really they'd be very cat-like, waiting for their prey and ready to pounce on them once they get close. As for the bases, what about completing the mission without destroying the tables? I don't think the game simulates destroying the base by destroying the tables once the aliens are all neutralised. But I couldn't say for sure. Also, if I remember correctly, aren't elerium pods generated equal to the number of power units in the base, minus one? (i.e. 4 power units = 3 elerium pods) - [[User:NKF\|NKF]] 21:59, 6 March 2008 (PST)		: Without radars, you'd have to rely on the Skyranger's extraordinary ability to stay up in the air for yonks, and its own radar to pick up the supply ships. Really they'd be very cat-like, waiting for their prey and ready to pounce on them once they get close. As for the bases, what about completing the mission without destroying the tables? I don't think the game simulates destroying the base by destroying the tables once the aliens are all neutralised. But I couldn't say for sure. Also, if I remember correctly, aren't elerium pods generated equal to the number of power units in the base, minus one? (i.e. 4 power units = 3 elerium pods) - [[User:NKF\|NKF]] 21:59, 6 March 2008 (PST)

Zombie: Relinking.

2008-12-17T16:00:05Z

Relinking.

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:00, 17 December 2008
Line 26:		Line 26:

	----		----
	We really need to look at the [[Small Radar System\|Small]] and [[~~Large_Radar~~\|Large]] radar pages. Simply put, much of the information in-game doesn't agree with game file analysis. In fact, it normally is in direct disagreement with both game files and the Official Strategy Guide (OSG). Here's a table I drew up a long time ago to show the differences. Please note that the detection ranges listed in the OSG are 1/5 that of in-game, so we can back-calculate it's hypothetical range of 480.		We really need to look at the [[Small Radar System\|Small]] and [[Large Radar System\|Large]] radar pages. Simply put, much of the information in-game doesn't agree with game file analysis. In fact, it normally is in direct disagreement with both game files and the Official Strategy Guide (OSG). Here's a table I drew up a long time ago to show the differences. Please note that the detection ranges listed in the OSG are 1/5 that of in-game, so we can back-calculate it's hypothetical range of 480.

	<table {{StdCenterTable}} width="40%">		<table {{StdCenterTable}} width="40%">

Zombie: Relinking.

2008-12-17T15:54:16Z

Relinking.

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:54, 17 December 2008
Line 26:		Line 26:

	----		----
	We really need to look at the [[~~Small_Radar~~\|Small]] and [[Large_Radar\|Large]] radar pages. Simply put, much of the information in-game doesn't agree with game file analysis. In fact, it normally is in direct disagreement with both game files and the Official Strategy Guide (OSG). Here's a table I drew up a long time ago to show the differences. Please note that the detection ranges listed in the OSG are 1/5 that of in-game, so we can back-calculate it's hypothetical range of 480.		We really need to look at the [[Small Radar System\|Small]] and [[Large_Radar\|Large]] radar pages. Simply put, much of the information in-game doesn't agree with game file analysis. In fact, it normally is in direct disagreement with both game files and the Official Strategy Guide (OSG). Here's a table I drew up a long time ago to show the differences. Please note that the detection ranges listed in the OSG are 1/5 that of in-game, so we can back-calculate it's hypothetical range of 480.

	<table {{StdCenterTable}} width="40%">		<table {{StdCenterTable}} width="40%">

Zombie: Relinking.

2008-12-17T15:41:25Z

Relinking.

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:41, 17 December 2008
Line 138:		Line 138:
	==Detection Ranges - Provisional graphic==		==Detection Ranges - Provisional graphic==

	<s>Based on measurements done on the surface of a globe and my assertion that tracking range = 1.5x detection range (see [[Talk:Small Radar]]), here is a provisional range comparison:</s>		<s>Based on measurements done on the surface of a globe and my assertion that tracking range = 1.5x detection range (see [[Talk:Small Radar System]]), here is a provisional range comparison:</s>
	:I no longer believe that there is a difference between tracking and detection ranges -- the difference between the two is caused by a combination of UFOs moving at high speeds and the fact that "detections" are only updated every half hour, as Sf theorized. Updated graphic:		:I no longer believe that there is a difference between tracking and detection ranges -- the difference between the two is caused by a combination of UFOs moving at high speeds and the fact that "detections" are only updated every half hour, as Sf theorized. Updated graphic:

Spike: /* General Discussion and Editing Comments */ (moved to Talk)

2008-08-30T18:05:35Z

General Discussion and Editing Comments: (moved to Talk)

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:05, 30 August 2008
Line 1:		Line 1:
			= Questions, Comments, etc =

			re Alien Base Detection

			"All X-COM craft are also capable of detecting [[Alien Base\|alien base]]s. In fact, this is the only way to discover alien bases: they will not show up on any base radar, including Hyper-Wave Decoders. (However, "X-COM agents" will sometimes report the discovery of a base during X-COM's Monthly Report; see [[Alien Base#Locating an Alien Base\|Locating an Alien Base]].) In order to discover an alien base, an X-COM craft must patrol within 1500 nm of the base's location. The nearer the craft, the sooner the base will be discovered. Patrolling immediately above a base will reveal it almost immediately; patrolling 1500 nm away, the base may take one hour to discover, or several hours.

			Bases can only be discovered by ''patrolling'' craft. An X-COM craft could fly over an alien base repeatedly and never discover it until it began patrolling in the area."

			:''Are you certain? I've seen my newly built base detect an alien base right next to it without any crafts nearby. -[[User:Amitakartok\|amitakartok]]


	= General Discussion and Editing Comments =		= General Discussion and Editing Comments =

Schnobs: /* Airborne Detection ( the Skyranger AWACS Platform) */

2008-04-09T15:31:56Z

Airborne Detection ( the Skyranger AWACS Platform)

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:31, 9 April 2008
Line 248:		Line 248:

	:Good points there AQ on the many benefits of HWDs and NKF on the benefits of flexibility. [[User:Spike\|Spike]]		:Good points there AQ on the many benefits of HWDs and NKF on the benefits of flexibility. [[User:Spike\|Spike]]

			::I generally think it's a good idea to decomission one interceptor in favor of a second skyranger. Reasons can be found [[Yet_Another_Scheme#Find_the_Enemy\|here]]. --[[User:Schnobs\|Schnobs]] 08:31, 9 April 2008 (PDT)

	== Aircraft-based detection while moving? ==		== Aircraft-based detection while moving? ==

Spike: strikethrough references to moving aircraft having better detection

2008-03-31T08:49:05Z

strikethrough references to moving aircraft having better detection

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:49, 31 March 2008
Line 178:		Line 178:
	In fact, it is claimed [[UFO Detection#Craft-based UFO Detection\|in this article]] that aircraft detection percentage is 100% within their radius. This in theory makes them 2.5x more effective than a small radar, at least for UFOs that don't linger around more than one detection interval (30min). [[User:Spike\|Spike]] 11:47, 7 March 2008 (PST)		In fact, it is claimed [[UFO Detection#Craft-based UFO Detection\|in this article]] that aircraft detection percentage is 100% within their radius. This in theory makes them 2.5x more effective than a small radar, at least for UFOs that don't linger around more than one detection interval (30min). [[User:Spike\|Spike]] 11:47, 7 March 2008 (PST)

	Now consider a <b>moving</b> Skyranger. In theory, in addition to its base 1.767 million sq n mi circular swept area when stationary, a moving Skyranger at 760 knots adds another 380 x 1500 = 0.57 million sq n mi rectangular swept area, a further one third. With 100% detection, in theory this makes the Skyranger 3.3 times more effective than the Small Radar - 2.32 times more effective after allowing for the "duty cycle" (time airborne vs refueling) of the Skyranger (70%).		<s>Now consider a <b>moving</b> Skyranger. In theory, in addition to its base 1.767 million sq n mi circular swept area when stationary, a moving Skyranger at 760 knots adds another 380 x 1500 = 0.57 million sq n mi rectangular swept area, a further one third. With 100% detection, in theory this makes the Skyranger 3.3 times more effective than the Small Radar - 2.32 times more effective after allowing for the "duty cycle" (time airborne vs refueling) of the Skyranger (70%).

	And factoring in the higher cost of the Large Radar, a moving Skyranger is ever so slightly more cost-effective than a Large Radar - for the first month of service at least. In subsequent months the cost-efficiency of hired aircraft plumments due to their 100% maintenance costs.		And factoring in the higher cost of the Large Radar, a moving Skyranger is ever so slightly more cost-effective than a Large Radar - for the first month of service at least. In subsequent months the cost-efficiency of hired aircraft plumments due to their 100% maintenance costs.

	And if you also factor in the longer build time of the Radars vs. short aircraft delivery times, the Skyranger is 4 times as efficient in the first month of the game than a Small Radar and 3.4 times more efficient than a Large Radar. Factor in the purchase cost as well as the build/delivery time and the Skyranger even beats a Hyperwave Decoder - by a factor of two!		And if you also factor in the longer build time of the Radars vs. short aircraft delivery times, the Skyranger is 4 times as efficient in the first month of the game than a Small Radar and 3.4 times more efficient than a Large Radar. Factor in the purchase cost as well as the build/delivery time and the Skyranger even beats a Hyperwave Decoder - by a factor of two!</s>

	Hurrah for Skyranger AWACS!		Hurrah for Skyranger AWACS!

	Factoid: The breakeven point when (theoretically) a Large Radar will have generated more intercepts than a moving Skyranger is 63 days after purchase.		<s>Factoid: The breakeven point when (theoretically) a Large Radar will have generated more intercepts than a moving Skyranger is 63 days after purchase.</s>
	[[User:Spike\|Spike]] 14:30, 7 March 2008 (PST)		[[User:Spike\|Spike]] 14:30, 7 March 2008 (PST)

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:31, 17 December 2008
Line 376:		Line 376:
	::: Or maybe we have to wait for one to crash of its own accord, Roswell style, before we can unlock the mysteries of space travel... :) But would it be possible to "milk" the base - deliberately lose the mission - but still extract the Navigation from the control room? E.g. avoid killing all the aliens and reach the exit with it? Tricky. Or a soldier picks the Navigation item up before the aliens are all dead? Actually I don't know if a UFO Navigation can be carried. [[User:Spike\|Spike]] 12:32, 6 March 2008 (PST)		::: Or maybe we have to wait for one to crash of its own accord, Roswell style, before we can unlock the mysteries of space travel... :) But would it be possible to "milk" the base - deliberately lose the mission - but still extract the Navigation from the control room? E.g. avoid killing all the aliens and reach the exit with it? Tricky. Or a soldier picks the Navigation item up before the aliens are all dead? Actually I don't know if a UFO Navigation can be carried. [[User:Spike\|Spike]] 12:32, 6 March 2008 (PST)

	::No, UFO Navigation items cannot be picked up and carried, nor can UFO Power Sources or Alien Alloys. However, as for milking the base, you can raid the [[Supply ~~Ship~~]]s as they come, or you can do the extraordinarily dangerous [[Alien_Base#Smash_And_Grab\|alien base smash and grab]]. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft\|Arrow Quivershaft]] 13:00, 6 March 2008 (PST)		::No, UFO Navigation items cannot be picked up and carried, nor can UFO Power Sources or Alien Alloys. However, as for milking the base, you can raid the [[Supply ship\|Supply Ships]] as they come, or you can do the extraordinarily dangerous [[Alien_Base#Smash_And_Grab\|alien base smash and grab]]. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft\|Arrow Quivershaft]] 13:00, 6 March 2008 (PST)

	: Without radars, you'd have to rely on the Skyranger's extraordinary ability to stay up in the air for yonks, and its own radar to pick up the supply ships. Really they'd be very cat-like, waiting for their prey and ready to pounce on them once they get close. As for the bases, what about completing the mission without destroying the tables? I don't think the game simulates destroying the base by destroying the tables once the aliens are all neutralised. But I couldn't say for sure. Also, if I remember correctly, aren't elerium pods generated equal to the number of power units in the base, minus one? (i.e. 4 power units = 3 elerium pods) - [[User:NKF\|NKF]] 21:59, 6 March 2008 (PST)		: Without radars, you'd have to rely on the Skyranger's extraordinary ability to stay up in the air for yonks, and its own radar to pick up the supply ships. Really they'd be very cat-like, waiting for their prey and ready to pounce on them once they get close. As for the bases, what about completing the mission without destroying the tables? I don't think the game simulates destroying the base by destroying the tables once the aliens are all neutralised. But I couldn't say for sure. Also, if I remember correctly, aren't elerium pods generated equal to the number of power units in the base, minus one? (i.e. 4 power units = 3 elerium pods) - [[User:NKF\|NKF]] 21:59, 6 March 2008 (PST)