Talk:Starting Stats - Revision history

NKF: /* Psi / MC strength not entirely accurate */

2017-03-17T05:48:22Z

Psi / MC strength not entirely accurate

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:48, 17 March 2017
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	Any reason then why OpenXcom doesnt have its own section in the side bar where all the others are listed?		Any reason then why OpenXcom doesnt have its own section in the side bar where all the others are listed?

	: It's there - have a look under Featured Projects, which is just below the main game list. ~~As for the discussion,~~ if you have ~~a look at [[SOLDIER.DAT]]~~, ~~Psi/MC Strength~~ is ~~stored as a single value rather than~~ the usual base and improvement star pairs. OpenXCom likely implements Psi/MC Strength as a base/improvement pairing for modding purposes but should otherwise behave like the original in its default configuration.		: It's there - have a look under Featured Projects, which is just below the main game list. Or if you meant why it doesn't have its own subsection like this - well, the simple answer is that the page hasn't been created yet.

	: By the way, you can sign your posts by ~~add~~ four tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>) to the end of your message. [[User:NKF\|NKF]] ([[User talk:NKF\|talk]]) 04:40, 17 March 2017 (UTC)		: As for the discussion: if you have a look at [[SOLDIER.DAT]] for the original version, Psi/MC Strength is stored as a single value rather than as a base and improvement stat pair. OpenXCom likely implements Psi/MC Strength as a base/improvement pairing for modding purposes but should otherwise behave like the original in its default configuration.

			: By the way, you can sign your posts by adding four tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>) to the end of your message. [[User:NKF\|NKF]] ([[User talk:NKF\|talk]]) 04:40, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

NKF: /* Psi / MC strength not entirely accurate */

2017-03-17T04:40:44Z

Psi / MC strength not entirely accurate

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:40, 17 March 2017
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	:You might want to bring the issue with Warboy1982 on the OpenXcom forums. AFAIK the Psi mechanism is the same in vanilla TFTD/OpenTFTD, so if you're seeing different behavior between them, then it can a) be an OpenTFTD bug or b) The info about the vanilla TFTD is incorrect - Warboy dug through the original game code (and OpenXCom hardly changes anything about the vanilla mechanics), so to me he's a more trusted source about the vanilla game than empirical experience, either mine or from others. Talking with Warboy should clear the issue [[User:Hobbes\|Hobbes]] ([[User talk:Hobbes\|talk]]) 13:54, 16 March 2017 (UTC)		:You might want to bring the issue with Warboy1982 on the OpenXcom forums. AFAIK the Psi mechanism is the same in vanilla TFTD/OpenTFTD, so if you're seeing different behavior between them, then it can a) be an OpenTFTD bug or b) The info about the vanilla TFTD is incorrect - Warboy dug through the original game code (and OpenXCom hardly changes anything about the vanilla mechanics), so to me he's a more trusted source about the vanilla game than empirical experience, either mine or from others. Talking with Warboy should clear the issue [[User:Hobbes\|Hobbes]] ([[User talk:Hobbes\|talk]]) 13:54, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
	Any reason then why OpenXcom doesnt have its own section in the side bar where all the others are listed?		Any reason then why OpenXcom doesnt have its own section in the side bar where all the others are listed?

			: It's there - have a look under Featured Projects, which is just below the main game list. As for the discussion, if you have a look at [[SOLDIER.DAT]], Psi/MC Strength is stored as a single value rather than the usual base and improvement star pairs. OpenXCom likely implements Psi/MC Strength as a base/improvement pairing for modding purposes but should otherwise behave like the original in its default configuration.

			: By the way, you can sign your posts by add four tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>) to the end of your message. [[User:NKF\|NKF]] ([[User talk:NKF\|talk]]) 04:40, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

Nachtkap at 17:43, 16 March 2017

2017-03-16T17:43:01Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:43, 16 March 2017
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	:This page is intended to be for the original 1994 games. OpenXcom has its own pages under [[OpenXcom]]. If it's true for the 1994 version and different for OpenXcom then it should go on the OpenXcom pages. [[User:Binkyuk\|Binkyuk]] ([[User talk:Binkyuk\|talk]]) 12:41, 16 March 2017 (UTC)		:This page is intended to be for the original 1994 games. OpenXcom has its own pages under [[OpenXcom]]. If it's true for the 1994 version and different for OpenXcom then it should go on the OpenXcom pages. [[User:Binkyuk\|Binkyuk]] ([[User talk:Binkyuk\|talk]]) 12:41, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
	:You might want to bring the issue with Warboy1982 on the OpenXcom forums. AFAIK the Psi mechanism is the same in vanilla TFTD/OpenTFTD, so if you're seeing different behavior between them, then it can a) be an OpenTFTD bug or b) The info about the vanilla TFTD is incorrect - Warboy dug through the original game code (and OpenXCom hardly changes anything about the vanilla mechanics), so to me he's a more trusted source about the vanilla game than empirical experience, either mine or from others. Talking with Warboy should clear the issue [[User:Hobbes\|Hobbes]] ([[User talk:Hobbes\|talk]]) 13:54, 16 March 2017 (UTC)		:You might want to bring the issue with Warboy1982 on the OpenXcom forums. AFAIK the Psi mechanism is the same in vanilla TFTD/OpenTFTD, so if you're seeing different behavior between them, then it can a) be an OpenTFTD bug or b) The info about the vanilla TFTD is incorrect - Warboy dug through the original game code (and OpenXCom hardly changes anything about the vanilla mechanics), so to me he's a more trusted source about the vanilla game than empirical experience, either mine or from others. Talking with Warboy should clear the issue [[User:Hobbes\|Hobbes]] ([[User talk:Hobbes\|talk]]) 13:54, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
			Any reason then why OpenXcom doesnt have its own section in the side bar where all the others are listed?

Hobbes: /* Psi / MC strength not entirely accurate */

2017-03-16T13:54:56Z

Psi / MC strength not entirely accurate

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:54, 16 March 2017
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	Am I right in assuming that this article should cover OpenXcom TFTD as well? If so then the MC Strength (Psi Strength) isnt accurate. I have seen an increase in MC Strength in very few of my Aquanauts. It's hard to be sure why and how this actually happened. As far as I can recall those that have seen an increase were attacked with Psi a lot during a mission. I cant find an explanation why the MC strength increased for only 2 out off 15 it happened to. The 13 others are at the lower acceptable level of MC strength (to me this is mid 50ish) or they should have been commanders on missions. The former condition is definitive reason for MC attack while the later might be a reason for an attack. And yes I'm sure it actually happened because the MC strength off-white (244:244:244; 160hue, 0Sat, 211Lum) stat bar had a little bar in a brighter white (255:255:255 160hue 0sat 237Lum) added to it. Checked this with the irfan view pipette and custom color options. I can post screen shots if they are needed, but I dont know if I will remember to check the talk page again and upload. So there is that -.-		Am I right in assuming that this article should cover OpenXcom TFTD as well? If so then the MC Strength (Psi Strength) isnt accurate. I have seen an increase in MC Strength in very few of my Aquanauts. It's hard to be sure why and how this actually happened. As far as I can recall those that have seen an increase were attacked with Psi a lot during a mission. I cant find an explanation why the MC strength increased for only 2 out off 15 it happened to. The 13 others are at the lower acceptable level of MC strength (to me this is mid 50ish) or they should have been commanders on missions. The former condition is definitive reason for MC attack while the later might be a reason for an attack. And yes I'm sure it actually happened because the MC strength off-white (244:244:244; 160hue, 0Sat, 211Lum) stat bar had a little bar in a brighter white (255:255:255 160hue 0sat 237Lum) added to it. Checked this with the irfan view pipette and custom color options. I can post screen shots if they are needed, but I dont know if I will remember to check the talk page again and upload. So there is that -.-
	:This page is intended to be for the original 1994 games. OpenXcom has its own pages under [[OpenXcom]]. If it's true for the 1994 version and different for OpenXcom then it should go on the OpenXcom pages. [[User:Binkyuk\|Binkyuk]] ([[User talk:Binkyuk\|talk]]) 12:41, 16 March 2017 (UTC)		:This page is intended to be for the original 1994 games. OpenXcom has its own pages under [[OpenXcom]]. If it's true for the 1994 version and different for OpenXcom then it should go on the OpenXcom pages. [[User:Binkyuk\|Binkyuk]] ([[User talk:Binkyuk\|talk]]) 12:41, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
			:You might want to bring the issue with Warboy1982 on the OpenXcom forums. AFAIK the Psi mechanism is the same in vanilla TFTD/OpenTFTD, so if you're seeing different behavior between them, then it can a) be an OpenTFTD bug or b) The info about the vanilla TFTD is incorrect - Warboy dug through the original game code (and OpenXCom hardly changes anything about the vanilla mechanics), so to me he's a more trusted source about the vanilla game than empirical experience, either mine or from others. Talking with Warboy should clear the issue [[User:Hobbes\|Hobbes]] ([[User talk:Hobbes\|talk]]) 13:54, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

Binkyuk: /* Psi / MC strength not entirely accurate */

2017-03-16T12:41:46Z

Psi / MC strength not entirely accurate

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:41, 16 March 2017
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	Am I right in assuming that this article should cover OpenXcom TFTD as well? If so then the MC Strength (Psi Strength) isnt accurate. I have seen an increase in MC Strength in very few of my Aquanauts. It's hard to be sure why and how this actually happened. As far as I can recall those that have seen an increase were attacked with Psi a lot during a mission. I cant find an explanation why the MC strength increased for only 2 out off 15 it happened to. The 13 others are at the lower acceptable level of MC strength (to me this is mid 50ish) or they should have been commanders on missions. The former condition is definitive reason for MC attack while the later might be a reason for an attack. And yes I'm sure it actually happened because the MC strength off-white (244:244:244; 160hue, 0Sat, 211Lum) stat bar had a little bar in a brighter white (255:255:255 160hue 0sat 237Lum) added to it. Checked this with the irfan view pipette and custom color options. I can post screen shots if they are needed, but I dont know if I will remember to check the talk page again and upload. So there is that -.-		Am I right in assuming that this article should cover OpenXcom TFTD as well? If so then the MC Strength (Psi Strength) isnt accurate. I have seen an increase in MC Strength in very few of my Aquanauts. It's hard to be sure why and how this actually happened. As far as I can recall those that have seen an increase were attacked with Psi a lot during a mission. I cant find an explanation why the MC strength increased for only 2 out off 15 it happened to. The 13 others are at the lower acceptable level of MC strength (to me this is mid 50ish) or they should have been commanders on missions. The former condition is definitive reason for MC attack while the later might be a reason for an attack. And yes I'm sure it actually happened because the MC strength off-white (244:244:244; 160hue, 0Sat, 211Lum) stat bar had a little bar in a brighter white (255:255:255 160hue 0sat 237Lum) added to it. Checked this with the irfan view pipette and custom color options. I can post screen shots if they are needed, but I dont know if I will remember to check the talk page again and upload. So there is that -.-
			:This page is intended to be for the original 1994 games. OpenXcom has its own pages under [[OpenXcom]]. If it's true for the 1994 version and different for OpenXcom then it should go on the OpenXcom pages. [[User:Binkyuk\|Binkyuk]] ([[User talk:Binkyuk\|talk]]) 12:41, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

Nachtkap: /* Psi / MC strength not entirely accurate */ new section

2017-03-16T10:12:02Z

Psi / MC strength not entirely accurate: new section

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:12, 16 March 2017
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	:Hey, it's great to see you guys! I am writing up some stuff on my own site about my work on XCOM and other games (which led me here). I'll give a link on my User page when done.		:Hey, it's great to see you guys! I am writing up some stuff on my own site about my work on XCOM and other games (which led me here). I'll give a link on my User page when done.
	::-[[User:MikeTheRed\|MikeTheRed]] ([[User talk:MikeTheRed\|talk]]) 23:46, 15 January 2017 (UTC)		::-[[User:MikeTheRed\|MikeTheRed]] ([[User talk:MikeTheRed\|talk]]) 23:46, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

			== Psi / MC strength not entirely accurate ==

			Am I right in assuming that this article should cover OpenXcom TFTD as well? If so then the MC Strength (Psi Strength) isnt accurate. I have seen an increase in MC Strength in very few of my Aquanauts. It's hard to be sure why and how this actually happened. As far as I can recall those that have seen an increase were attacked with Psi a lot during a mission. I cant find an explanation why the MC strength increased for only 2 out off 15 it happened to. The 13 others are at the lower acceptable level of MC strength (to me this is mid 50ish) or they should have been commanders on missions. The former condition is definitive reason for MC attack while the later might be a reason for an attack. And yes I'm sure it actually happened because the MC strength off-white (244:244:244; 160hue, 0Sat, 211Lum) stat bar had a little bar in a brighter white (255:255:255 160hue 0sat 237Lum) added to it. Checked this with the irfan view pipette and custom color options. I can post screen shots if they are needed, but I dont know if I will remember to check the talk page again and upload. So there is that -.-

MikeTheRed: What's up? Finally getting back to you guys about these thoughts :)

2017-01-15T23:46:22Z

What's up? Finally getting back to you guys about these thoughts :)

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:46, 15 January 2017
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	My bad, while reading a little closer in the article, it didn't include Psi-screening. Ok, taking everything into account (that includes all the stats plus melee, TA and psi skill which MTR didn't think was important), a maxed out soldier would happen once out of 1,563,771,009,497.4 months. That's 78,188,550,474.87 years (or over 78 billion years). --[[User:Zombie\|Zombie]] 20:57, 28 April 2008 (PDT)		My bad, while reading a little closer in the article, it didn't include Psi-screening. Ok, taking everything into account (that includes all the stats plus melee, TA and psi skill which MTR didn't think was important), a maxed out soldier would happen once out of 1,563,771,009,497.4 months. That's 78,188,550,474.87 years (or over 78 billion years). --[[User:Zombie\|Zombie]] 20:57, 28 April 2008 (PDT)

			:How's it going, everyone? For the record, don't forget that soldiers actually have to be present at the ''start'' of the month to do psi training. Which in theory means 250 every ''two'' months (''twice'' as long) because you'd have to be recruited during the previous month to be there then. That said (and I can't remember if I thought of this at the time, but)...

			:If we were really screening our guys, you would do it in batches of 100 as described and then, if any of these soldiers were max in what you could immediately see (incredibly rare), you would then put those guys into psi training ''next'' month, with room to spare. The transfer queue only holds 100 at a time, which leaves room for 150 more soldiers to train.

			:As a result, the math stays ''almost'' the same. This new way of looking at psi strength would only have the effect of adding an average of 1.5 months to whatever other total was derived. That's because you would only add in the final month of training for the last soldier (the one that was found to have 100 psi strength), plus the 1-29 days or so that he arrived in the previous month. (So, it only adds an average of 1.5 months.) Because all the other guys that were max on other stats (and then got psi tested) would be tested in parallel with the batches of 100 that keep coming. Therefore, the time needed is not really changed. Psi strength still just adds the 101 multiplication term it otherwise already did in my calculation. (Because you will have to go through 101 of them to find one of 100 psi strength, on average, after you find guys that are max in stats immediately visible.)

			:As for the other stats (melee, throwing, and psi skill), that's perfectly fine to include if you want; just a matter of preference. Which would definitely increase the numbers if you did, as you say. I think it's really debatable if you'd want to include melee, but these are only parlor games anyway. In any event, I was merely tossing off an idle aside that no one had considered before; it's how I framed it at the moment. I wonder if anyone would've ever considered any of it, if I hadn't. How many people do you know that go around tossing off overly convoluted analyses for no good reason? lol

			:Hey, it's great to see you guys! I am writing up some stuff on my own site about my work on XCOM and other games (which led me here). I'll give a link on my User page when done.
			::-[[User:MikeTheRed\|MikeTheRed]] ([[User talk:MikeTheRed\|talk]]) 23:46, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

Zombie: Another reply about ultimate rookie soldier. This time, revised.

2008-04-29T03:57:39Z

Another reply about ultimate rookie soldier. This time, revised.

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:57, 29 April 2008
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	:Point taken. Unless you're looking at right at the file to get your data, at which case Psi Screening takes no extra time. ;P [[User:Arrow Quivershaft\|Arrow Quivershaft]] 19:53, 28 April 2008 (PDT)		:Point taken. Unless you're looking at right at the file to get your data, at which case Psi Screening takes no extra time. ;P [[User:Arrow Quivershaft\|Arrow Quivershaft]] 19:53, 28 April 2008 (PDT)

			My bad, while reading a little closer in the article, it didn't include Psi-screening. Ok, taking everything into account (that includes all the stats plus melee, TA and psi skill which MTR didn't think was important), a maxed out soldier would happen once out of 1,563,771,009,497.4 months. That's 78,188,550,474.87 years (or over 78 billion years). --[[User:Zombie\|Zombie]] 20:57, 28 April 2008 (PDT)

Arrow Quivershaft at 02:53, 29 April 2008

2008-04-29T02:53:08Z

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	:: They become overwritable, yes. However, psi-screening only happens at the <b>end</b> of the month; only 250 soldiers per month can be screened for Psi Strength. --[[User:Zaimoni\|Zaimoni]] 21:50, 28 April 2008 (CDT)		:: They become overwritable, yes. However, psi-screening only happens at the <b>end</b> of the month; only 250 soldiers per month can be screened for Psi Strength. --[[User:Zaimoni\|Zaimoni]] 21:50, 28 April 2008 (CDT)

			:Point taken. Unless you're looking at right at the file to get your data, at which case Psi Screening takes no extra time. ;P [[User:Arrow Quivershaft\|Arrow Quivershaft]] 19:53, 28 April 2008 (PDT)

Zaimoni at 02:50, 29 April 2008

2008-04-29T02:50:26Z

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	:Soldiers don't get pulled out of [[SOLDIER.DAT]] if they're sacked before the end of the month? [[User:Arrow Quivershaft\|Arrow Quivershaft]] 17:56, 28 April 2008 (PDT)		:Soldiers don't get pulled out of [[SOLDIER.DAT]] if they're sacked before the end of the month? [[User:Arrow Quivershaft\|Arrow Quivershaft]] 17:56, 28 April 2008 (PDT)

			:: They become overwritable, yes. However, psi-screening only happens at the <b>end</b> of the month; only 250 soldiers per month can be screened for Psi Strength. --[[User:Zaimoni\|Zaimoni]] 21:50, 28 April 2008 (CDT)