Talk:Small Scout - Revision history

Magic9mushroom: /* UFO-1 */

2018-06-30T06:24:33Z

UFO-1

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	:You're probably already aware of this, but the craft sizes reported by radar don't explicitly match craft types. "Small Scouts" show up on radar as "Very Small". "Medium Scouts" come in as just "Small". I point this out because I usually seem to get "Small" radar contacts first (which ''aren't'' small ''scouts''), though it really is random. - <span style="font-size:xx-small"> [[User:Bomb_Bloke\|Bomb Bloke]] ([[User_talk:Bomb_Bloke\|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Bomb_Bloke\|Contribs]])</span> 22:24, 23 April 2011 (EDT)		:You're probably already aware of this, but the craft sizes reported by radar don't explicitly match craft types. "Small Scouts" show up on radar as "Very Small". "Medium Scouts" come in as just "Small". I point this out because I usually seem to get "Small" radar contacts first (which ''aren't'' small ''scouts''), though it really is random. - <span style="font-size:xx-small"> [[User:Bomb_Bloke\|Bomb Bloke]] ([[User_talk:Bomb_Bloke\|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Bomb_Bloke\|Contribs]])</span> 22:24, 23 April 2011 (EDT)

			There is guaranteed to be a Small Scout dispatched to the zone containing X-Com's first base within the first day of the game. It is not guaranteed, however, to be UFO-1; UFO numbers are assigned based on the order in which X-Com detects them, and the first UFO you see may not be the original Small Scout (your starting radar may fail to detect it at all, or the Medium Scout also generated on January 1 - scouting for the January Terror Site - may pass through your radar and be detected first). [[User:Magic9mushroom\|Magic9mushroom]] ([[User talk:Magic9mushroom\|talk]]) 08:24, 30 June 2018 (CEST)

Slider2k: /* Update on Small Scout Hunting */

2013-12-07T20:35:04Z

Update on Small Scout Hunting

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	[[User:Spike\|Spike]] 20:29, 16 October 2012 (EDT)		[[User:Spike\|Spike]] 20:29, 16 October 2012 (EDT)

			:Just use UFOExtender's "True Cautious Mode" mode with double Stingray Interceptor. Cautious mode will shoot 1 rocket at a time. — [[User:Slider2k\|Slider2k]] 15:35, 7 December 2013 (EST)

	== Old Discussion ==		== Old Discussion ==

Spike: /* Tactics for Hunting Small Scouts */

2012-10-17T00:29:28Z

Tactics for Hunting Small Scouts

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:29, 17 October 2012
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	::By the way, my understanding is that the damage function for aircraft weapons is a random 50% - 100% of the UFOPaedia-listed damage. Although I never quite got round to reflecting this in the numbers on my [[Aircraft Firepower Table]]. Cheers, [[User:Spike\|Spike]] 13:22, 2 July 2009 (EDT)		::By the way, my understanding is that the damage function for aircraft weapons is a random 50% - 100% of the UFOPaedia-listed damage. Although I never quite got round to reflecting this in the numbers on my [[Aircraft Firepower Table]]. Cheers, [[User:Spike\|Spike]] 13:22, 2 July 2009 (EDT)

			=== Update on Small Scout Hunting ===

			Just a general update on Small Scout hunting.

			Firstly we now know that because the random number generator in the game is pretty poor and very much time-based, two missiles fired at more or less the same time will generally either both hit or both miss, and will do more or less the same damage. This means the expected damage when volleying with paired Stingrays is ''correlated'' rather than ''independent''. (For an example of what happens when you assume two events are independent when actually they are correlated, I refer the reader to the 2008 Financial Crash.) In relation to Very Small UFO Crashes, this means two Stingrays have a higher chance to destroy the Small Scout than would otherwise be expected, so a single Stingray, or ideally a single Stingray plus Cannon, is preferred if the goal is strictly to engage Small Scouts and crash them rather than destroy them.

			Now there was also discussion out there somewhere out whether it's worthwhile maintaining an entire Hangar and precious Interceptor in this basically otherwise sub-optimal configuration, just to have a shot at maybe getting half a million dollars worth of loot once a month. The answer is, probably not, so that leads to the suggestion to use dual Stingrays anyway, because dual Stingrays is not a bad choice for engaging Small-sized UFOs (bigger than the Very Small-sized "Small Scout", sorry if that's confusing). You will probably end up taking some Interceptor damage against the tougher Small UFOs but you stand a good chance of crashing rather than destroying Small Scouts.

			To summarise the above:

			* If you ''need'' the Small Scout, eg because you are trying to capture a lone Ethereal, run single Stingray plus Cannon
			* If you ''want'' the Small Scout for extra cash and loot, but you need to fight the rest of the war as well, consider one or maybe even two Interceptors armed with dual Stingray rather than dual Avalanche.

			A third option emerges via the Craft Always Ready option of [[UFO Extender]]. This opens up an option to maintain Interceptors in optimum air-superiority configuration (dual Avalanches of course), but switch relatively quickly to Small Scout-crashing configuration. On detection of a Very Small target you can immediately change one or both weapons on an Interceptor and begin arming with Small Scout-friendly weapons. The key point is you don't need to wait for the weapon(s) to be fully loaded before you launch; you can launch as soon as a minimum amount of ammunition, sufficient to take down a Small Scout, has been loaded. With luck, you start the rearming cycle while the Small Scout is still on an approaching course, and launch your Interceptor as soon as the UFO is moving toward a receding course. In theory you could equip a Cannon, and be airborne with 100 rds in the Cannon in about 2 hours. But as noted above, downing Small Scouts with Cannon is a giant PITA. So instead what you want to do is equip Stingray launchers, wait as long as you can to load as many missiles as you can at the frustrating rate of 1 per hour, then launch as late as possible to do the interception. How many Stingrays you need will depend on luck and difficulty level. Probably 2 Stingrays in one launcher is enough, 90% of the time. Three Stingrays should give about 97% confidence to hit the Small Scout. All provided the Small Scout pilot dawdles around long enough to let you take all your shots. If you hit with a Stingray you have very roughly a 3/7 chance of crashing the Small Scout (and 4/7 chance of destroying it, thus invalidating all this fuss and bother of trying to crash it).

			A related fourth option, in some ways better, is to use the De-equip Crafts option of UFO Extender in combination with a standard configuration for air superiority Interceptors of one Avalanche, one Stingray. This is not optimum for air superiority but it's not terrible. What you would do for a quick-reaction response to a Very Small target is immediately De-Equip the Avalanche. You then get immediate take off with an aircraft already armed with 6 Stingrays in a single launcher. An alternative way of doing the same thing without "De-Equip" is to change the Avalanche to any other weapon (even to another Avalanche, or to any weapon and then immediately back to an Avalanche), and then take off immediately with the second weapon empty. This is achieved via the Craft Always Ready option of UFO Extender. (And this suggests that the UFO Extender De-equip action, and also the standard game's Equip action of changing weapon types, probably should not be instantaneous but should take at least say one hour.)

			As a last gripe, it is a game design flaw that the Stingray only loads one missile per hour, same as the Avalanche, and one more thing that makes Avalanches uber-optimal and makes the (air) game less interesting. A better game design decision would have been for Stingrays to reload at 2 per hour or even 3 per hour, to make the whole Stingray weapons system equal (2/hr) or faster (3/hr) than the Avalanche weapons system its operational tempo.

			[[User:Spike\|Spike]] 20:29, 16 October 2012 (EDT)

	== Old Discussion ==		== Old Discussion ==

Jasonred at 21:56, 27 April 2011

2011-04-27T21:56:31Z

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	So in conclusion, dual Stingray missiles might be a better scout hunting tactic for Interceptors, depending on how air to air combat resolution works. Unfortunately that is very hard to figure out by experiment. It probably requires decompiling the relevant chunk of code. If dual Stingrays are good for scout hunting, that's good news, since dual Stingrays are not bad for general purpose UFO hunting either.		So in conclusion, dual Stingray missiles might be a better scout hunting tactic for Interceptors, depending on how air to air combat resolution works. Unfortunately that is very hard to figure out by experiment. It probably requires decompiling the relevant chunk of code. If dual Stingrays are good for scout hunting, that's good news, since dual Stingrays are not bad for general purpose UFO hunting either.

			: Actually, it's fairly easy to do by experiment, IF you can hack the variables for the Stingray missiles. Modify the stingrays so that they have 100% accuracy and 50 damage. (25-50 in practice). Then equip dual stingrays. For best results, equip on an Avenger. So, basically, if 2 missiles hit at the same time, it will be destroyed. If the missiles hit 1 by 1, it will crash land. (except in the event it did 50 out of 50 damage. Because of the chance of getting a natural 50, repeat the experiment 10 times. SORTED. (except for the hacking bit... I'm not too clear on how to do that)

Bomb Bloke: /* UFO-1 */

2011-04-24T02:24:45Z

UFO-1

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:24, 24 April 2011
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	== UFO-1 ==		== UFO-1 ==
	It's touched on above, but is UFO-1 ''always'' a small scout? It seems to be (every game I start has a small scout at the beginning) but is there a way of proving it? -[[User:Ashley Pomeroy\|Ashley Pomeroy]] 10:44, 23 April 2011 (EDT)		It's touched on above, but is UFO-1 ''always'' a small scout? It seems to be (every game I start has a small scout at the beginning) but is there a way of proving it? -[[User:Ashley Pomeroy\|Ashley Pomeroy]] 10:44, 23 April 2011 (EDT)
			:Not always.

			:You're probably already aware of this, but the craft sizes reported by radar don't explicitly match craft types. "Small Scouts" show up on radar as "Very Small". "Medium Scouts" come in as just "Small". I point this out because I usually seem to get "Small" radar contacts first (which ''aren't'' small ''scouts''), though it really is random. - <span style="font-size:xx-small"> [[User:Bomb_Bloke\|Bomb Bloke]] ([[User_talk:Bomb_Bloke\|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Bomb_Bloke\|Contribs]])</span> 22:24, 23 April 2011 (EDT)

Ashley Pomeroy at 14:44, 23 April 2011

2011-04-23T14:44:30Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:44, 23 April 2011
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	:: I'm slightly fuzzy on that, but that is what the XCOMUtil documentation paraphrases to (it may be a "cumulative tile count" thing). In any case, the removal is completely unnecessary unless attempting a hybrid terrain game, and removing the small scout tile set is enough to prevent the overflow for hybrid terrain games. -- [[User:Zaimoni\|Zaimoni]] 23:00, 31 August 2010 CDT		:: I'm slightly fuzzy on that, but that is what the XCOMUtil documentation paraphrases to (it may be a "cumulative tile count" thing). In any case, the removal is completely unnecessary unless attempting a hybrid terrain game, and removing the small scout tile set is enough to prevent the overflow for hybrid terrain games. -- [[User:Zaimoni\|Zaimoni]] 23:00, 31 August 2010 CDT

			== UFO-1 ==
			It's touched on above, but is UFO-1 ''always'' a small scout? It seems to be (every game I start has a small scout at the beginning) but is there a way of proving it? -[[User:Ashley Pomeroy\|Ashley Pomeroy]] 10:44, 23 April 2011 (EDT)

Zaimoni at 04:01, 1 September 2010

2010-09-01T04:01:22Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:01, 1 September 2010
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	: The Small Scout tiles cause an MCD overflow problem in hybrid games (mixing UFO and TFTD terrain). -- [[User:Zaimoni\|Zaimoni]] 23:51, 30 August 2010 (CDT)		: The Small Scout tiles cause an MCD overflow problem in hybrid games (mixing UFO and TFTD terrain). -- [[User:Zaimoni\|Zaimoni]] 23:51, 30 August 2010 (CDT)
	:: I think can check this later. You maybe mean an option with randomizing UFO's floor plans?--[[User:Ufo.mesh\|ufo.mesh]] 01:17, 31 August 2010 (EDT)		:: I think can check this later. You maybe mean an option with randomizing UFO's floor plans?--[[User:Ufo.mesh\|ufo.mesh]] 01:17, 31 August 2010 (EDT)

			::: No; this is playing UFO with TFTD terrain or vice versa. -- [[User:Zaimoni\|Zaimoni]] 23:00, 31 August 2010 CDT

	: Of all the UFOs available, it has the smallest set of MCD indexes - how could it cause an overflow when the other craft do not? - [[User:Bomb Bloke\|Bomb Bloke]] 02:44, 31 August 2010 (EDT)		: Of all the UFOs available, it has the smallest set of MCD indexes - how could it cause an overflow when the other craft do not? - [[User:Bomb Bloke\|Bomb Bloke]] 02:44, 31 August 2010 (EDT)

			:: I'm slightly fuzzy on that, but that is what the XCOMUtil documentation paraphrases to (it may be a "cumulative tile count" thing). In any case, the removal is completely unnecessary unless attempting a hybrid terrain game, and removing the small scout tile set is enough to prevent the overflow for hybrid terrain games. -- [[User:Zaimoni\|Zaimoni]] 23:00, 31 August 2010 CDT

Bomb Bloke: /* XcomUtil 9.7 (and probably older) */

2010-08-31T06:44:19Z

XcomUtil 9.7 (and probably older)

← Older revision		Revision as of 06:44, 31 August 2010
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	: The Small Scout tiles cause an MCD overflow problem in hybrid games (mixing UFO and TFTD terrain). -- [[User:Zaimoni\|Zaimoni]] 23:51, 30 August 2010 (CDT)		: The Small Scout tiles cause an MCD overflow problem in hybrid games (mixing UFO and TFTD terrain). -- [[User:Zaimoni\|Zaimoni]] 23:51, 30 August 2010 (CDT)
	:: I think can check this later. You maybe mean an option with randomizing UFO's floor plans?--[[User:Ufo.mesh\|ufo.mesh]] 01:17, 31 August 2010 (EDT)		:: I think can check this later. You maybe mean an option with randomizing UFO's floor plans?--[[User:Ufo.mesh\|ufo.mesh]] 01:17, 31 August 2010 (EDT)

			: Of all the UFOs available, it has the smallest set of MCD indexes - how could it cause an overflow when the other craft do not? - [[User:Bomb Bloke\|Bomb Bloke]] 02:44, 31 August 2010 (EDT)

Ufo.mesh: /* XcomUtil 9.7 (and probably older) */

2010-08-31T05:17:54Z

XcomUtil 9.7 (and probably older)

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:17, 31 August 2010
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	: The Small Scout tiles cause an MCD overflow problem in hybrid games (mixing UFO and TFTD terrain). -- [[User:Zaimoni\|Zaimoni]] 23:51, 30 August 2010 (CDT)		: The Small Scout tiles cause an MCD overflow problem in hybrid games (mixing UFO and TFTD terrain). -- [[User:Zaimoni\|Zaimoni]] 23:51, 30 August 2010 (CDT)
			:: I think can check this later. You maybe mean an option with randomizing UFO's floor plans?--[[User:Ufo.mesh\|ufo.mesh]] 01:17, 31 August 2010 (EDT)

Ufo.mesh: /* XcomUtil 9.7 (and probably older) */

2010-08-31T05:13:15Z

XcomUtil 9.7 (and probably older)

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:13, 31 August 2010
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	: However, I think the note about XComutil is not necessary for this article and can be removed. It's certainly an XComutil issue, but it's not a part of the game. -[[User:NKF\|NKF]] 18:31, 30 August 2010 (EDT)		: However, I think the note about XComutil is not necessary for this article and can be removed. It's certainly an XComutil issue, but it's not a part of the game. -[[User:NKF\|NKF]] 18:31, 30 August 2010 (EDT)

			::Yes, I'm using the latest Bladefirelight's build (v.9.7 build 442). And during my translations I came across this note and decided to check it out, because I use XcomUtil to fix some bugs. So, very small UFO exists at Battlescape.--[[User:Ufo.mesh\|ufo.mesh]] 01:13, 31 August 2010 (EDT)

	The reason that note is on the page is because of the [[#XComUtil_Ate_My_UFO_.28Old_Discussion.29\|above discussion block]] - people were getting confused as to why the scout wasn't appearing on maps.		The reason that note is on the page is because of the [[#XComUtil_Ate_My_UFO_.28Old_Discussion.29\|above discussion block]] - people were getting confused as to why the scout wasn't appearing on maps.

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:01, 1 September 2010
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	: The Small Scout tiles cause an MCD overflow problem in hybrid games (mixing UFO and TFTD terrain). -- [[User:Zaimoni\|Zaimoni]] 23:51, 30 August 2010 (CDT)		: The Small Scout tiles cause an MCD overflow problem in hybrid games (mixing UFO and TFTD terrain). -- [[User:Zaimoni\|Zaimoni]] 23:51, 30 August 2010 (CDT)
	:: I think can check this later. You maybe mean an option with randomizing UFO's floor plans?--[[User:Ufo.mesh\|ufo.mesh]] 01:17, 31 August 2010 (EDT)		:: I think can check this later. You maybe mean an option with randomizing UFO's floor plans?--[[User:Ufo.mesh\|ufo.mesh]] 01:17, 31 August 2010 (EDT)

			::: No; this is playing UFO with TFTD terrain or vice versa. -- [[User:Zaimoni\|Zaimoni]] 23:00, 31 August 2010 CDT

	: Of all the UFOs available, it has the smallest set of MCD indexes - how could it cause an overflow when the other craft do not? - [[User:Bomb Bloke\|Bomb Bloke]] 02:44, 31 August 2010 (EDT)		: Of all the UFOs available, it has the smallest set of MCD indexes - how could it cause an overflow when the other craft do not? - [[User:Bomb Bloke\|Bomb Bloke]] 02:44, 31 August 2010 (EDT)

			:: I'm slightly fuzzy on that, but that is what the XCOMUtil documentation paraphrases to (it may be a "cumulative tile count" thing). In any case, the removal is completely unnecessary unless attempting a hybrid terrain game, and removing the small scout tile set is enough to prevent the overflow for hybrid terrain games. -- [[User:Zaimoni\|Zaimoni]] 23:00, 31 August 2010 CDT

← Older revision		Revision as of 06:44, 31 August 2010
Line 131:		Line 131:
	: The Small Scout tiles cause an MCD overflow problem in hybrid games (mixing UFO and TFTD terrain). -- [[User:Zaimoni\|Zaimoni]] 23:51, 30 August 2010 (CDT)		: The Small Scout tiles cause an MCD overflow problem in hybrid games (mixing UFO and TFTD terrain). -- [[User:Zaimoni\|Zaimoni]] 23:51, 30 August 2010 (CDT)
	:: I think can check this later. You maybe mean an option with randomizing UFO's floor plans?--[[User:Ufo.mesh\|ufo.mesh]] 01:17, 31 August 2010 (EDT)		:: I think can check this later. You maybe mean an option with randomizing UFO's floor plans?--[[User:Ufo.mesh\|ufo.mesh]] 01:17, 31 August 2010 (EDT)

			: Of all the UFOs available, it has the smallest set of MCD indexes - how could it cause an overflow when the other craft do not? - [[User:Bomb Bloke\|Bomb Bloke]] 02:44, 31 August 2010 (EDT)

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:13, 31 August 2010
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	: However, I think the note about XComutil is not necessary for this article and can be removed. It's certainly an XComutil issue, but it's not a part of the game. -[[User:NKF\|NKF]] 18:31, 30 August 2010 (EDT)		: However, I think the note about XComutil is not necessary for this article and can be removed. It's certainly an XComutil issue, but it's not a part of the game. -[[User:NKF\|NKF]] 18:31, 30 August 2010 (EDT)

			::Yes, I'm using the latest Bladefirelight's build (v.9.7 build 442). And during my translations I came across this note and decided to check it out, because I use XcomUtil to fix some bugs. So, very small UFO exists at Battlescape.--[[User:Ufo.mesh\|ufo.mesh]] 01:13, 31 August 2010 (EDT)

	The reason that note is on the page is because of the [[#XComUtil_Ate_My_UFO_.28Old_Discussion.29\|above discussion block]] - people were getting confused as to why the scout wasn't appearing on maps.		The reason that note is on the page is because of the [[#XComUtil_Ate_My_UFO_.28Old_Discussion.29\|above discussion block]] - people were getting confused as to why the scout wasn't appearing on maps.