Talk:Rocket Launcher - Revision history

Ethereal Cereal: /* Neutral stance on Small Rocket */ all yours

2011-01-19T08:35:11Z

Neutral stance on Small Rocket: all yours

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:35, 19 January 2011
Line 36:		Line 36:

	:: Now, we've already got them in the articles on weight, but a thought just struck me thanks to another edit is that a quick-reference table of weights (glitch/non-glitch and 1, 2 or 3 spares) would be quite useful! -[[User:NKF\|NKF]] 01:42, 18 January 2011 (EST)		:: Now, we've already got them in the articles on weight, but a thought just struck me thanks to another edit is that a quick-reference table of weights (glitch/non-glitch and 1, 2 or 3 spares) would be quite useful! -[[User:NKF\|NKF]] 01:42, 18 January 2011 (EST)

			:::Well, I can find positive things to say about standard grenades. But I wasn't aware of the Weapon Analysis page, so that's a fair solution.

			:::I've made just about all the changes I wanted to to this page, so I turn the keys over to you.--[[User:Ethereal Cereal\|Ethereal Cereal]] 03:35, 19 January 2011 (EST)

	== Rockets for smoke ==		== Rockets for smoke ==

NKF: /* Neutral stance on Small Rocket */

2011-01-18T06:42:50Z

Neutral stance on Small Rocket

← Older revision		Revision as of 06:42, 18 January 2011
Line 32:		Line 32:

	:On the other hand, we could explore the weight issues in more detail in the article without being quite as explicit about the conclusions. A "weight" section would also give us a place to consolidate a couple more tips.--[[User:Ethereal Cereal\|Ethereal Cereal]] 13:58, 17 January 2011 (EST)		:On the other hand, we could explore the weight issues in more detail in the article without being quite as explicit about the conclusions. A "weight" section would also give us a place to consolidate a couple more tips.--[[User:Ethereal Cereal\|Ethereal Cereal]] 13:58, 17 January 2011 (EST)

			:: I suppose to look at the same argument from a different angle is the grenade vs. high explosive. But perhaps the best solution I can think of is to just make the information on the main article simply state the facts about launcher and its ammo but also link to a companion [[Weapon Analysis]] article that does a more in-depth comparison on the two rockets. You would have much more room to explain and show why the Large Rocket is generally the best of the two.

			:: Now, we've already got them in the articles on weight, but a thought just struck me thanks to another edit is that a quick-reference table of weights (glitch/non-glitch and 1, 2 or 3 spares) would be quite useful! -[[User:NKF\|NKF]] 01:42, 18 January 2011 (EST)

	== Rockets for smoke ==		== Rockets for smoke ==

NKF: /* Rockets for smoke */

2011-01-18T06:27:39Z

Rockets for smoke

← Older revision		Revision as of 06:27, 18 January 2011
Line 47:		Line 47:

	Even if it's a case of multiple aliens, use multiple grenades. I dunno, I'm just not seeing it. Sounds very hypothetical to me.--[[User:Ethereal Cereal\|Ethereal Cereal]] 19:55, 17 January 2011 (EST)		Even if it's a case of multiple aliens, use multiple grenades. I dunno, I'm just not seeing it. Sounds very hypothetical to me.--[[User:Ethereal Cereal\|Ethereal Cereal]] 19:55, 17 January 2011 (EST)

			: It's a convoluted setup, certainly, but I've actually had a chance to see this in action and managed to save one of my stranded soldiers from a Snakeman that was directly facing him. Mutual surprise helped from reaction fire. It mainly revolved around the scout not being able to retreat, and the rocket soldier not being able to get a clear line of sight except for the clearing between them. Imagine the snakeman being between the south and east legs of a battleship, and the rocket soldier was the only one near enough to respond to the stranded scout's plight was way off to the east. A battleship leg and parkland forest bushes weren't much help. Normally the solution is to fire the rocket at the Snakeman, but since I couldn't do this, the next best thing was kick up a smoke cloud and cross fingers. It was really an act of desperation, but it worked, and the snakeman seemed to miss the soldier and walked the other way.

			: How you get the scout in such a predicament is generally done through carelessness or by accident. Carelessness being running your scouts ragged every turn and running out of energy, or just plain using up too many TUs to escape. Accidents such as clicking when you're not meant to and sending the scout flying off in some dangerous direction, or destroying some cover that would have normally kept both sides out of each others' line of sight. Or perhaps an initial scouting sweep of the area proved to be clear - except for that one unfortunate spot your scout stopped in.

			: One scenario that I can see it being more useful for is masking your movement if you need to get a soldier to cross open terrain on the very same turn. Normally a smoke grenade is the best choice for masking your travel, but if you don't have any smoke grenades left or if you have to do it right then and there, a rocket's probably the next best option. -[[User:NKF\|NKF]] 01:27, 18 January 2011 (EST)

Ethereal Cereal: /* Rockets for smoke */ new section

2011-01-18T00:55:43Z

Rockets for smoke: new section

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:55, 18 January 2011
Line 32:		Line 32:

	:On the other hand, we could explore the weight issues in more detail in the article without being quite as explicit about the conclusions. A "weight" section would also give us a place to consolidate a couple more tips.--[[User:Ethereal Cereal\|Ethereal Cereal]] 13:58, 17 January 2011 (EST)		:On the other hand, we could explore the weight issues in more detail in the article without being quite as explicit about the conclusions. A "weight" section would also give us a place to consolidate a couple more tips.--[[User:Ethereal Cereal\|Ethereal Cereal]] 13:58, 17 January 2011 (EST)

			== Rockets for smoke ==

			I'm having trouble thinking of a scenario where this would actually be useful. A scout just entering line of sight can usually safely retreat back out of it. If you go deep into alien territory before you realize you're being watched, that's just bad scouting. If it's a question of a blind spot, you'll either get shot down or have a little time to retreat before the alien shoots again.

			It seems to me the following conditions would have to be met for it to be useful:

			#There's enough space between the alien and the scout that you can put a rocket between them but
			#The scout can't retreat on his own and
			#The rocket isn't likely to hit the scout or a nearby object and
			#You can't directly fire upon the alien

			In those weird cases where a scout spots an alien that can't be targeted or run away from, I tend to use a regular grenade. Or you could have the scout stop and use a smoke grenade anyway -- the alien will have to come forward to see the scout again and maybe you can get off a reaction shot.

			Even if it's a case of multiple aliens, use multiple grenades. I dunno, I'm just not seeing it. Sounds very hypothetical to me.--[[User:Ethereal Cereal\|Ethereal Cereal]] 19:55, 17 January 2011 (EST)

Ethereal Cereal: /* Neutral stance on Small Rocket */ or... well, okay, maybe.

2011-01-17T18:58:10Z

Neutral stance on Small Rocket: or... well, okay, maybe.

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:58, 17 January 2011
Line 30:		Line 30:

	:Small rockets are not useless -- 75 HE is indeed very good -- but I'd say there are almost no cases where large rockets aren't better.--[[User:Ethereal Cereal\|Ethereal Cereal]] 04:35, 17 January 2011 (EST)		:Small rockets are not useless -- 75 HE is indeed very good -- but I'd say there are almost no cases where large rockets aren't better.--[[User:Ethereal Cereal\|Ethereal Cereal]] 04:35, 17 January 2011 (EST)

			:On the other hand, we could explore the weight issues in more detail in the article without being quite as explicit about the conclusions. A "weight" section would also give us a place to consolidate a couple more tips.--[[User:Ethereal Cereal\|Ethereal Cereal]] 13:58, 17 January 2011 (EST)

Ethereal Cereal: /* Neutral stance on Small Rocket */ yeah... but.

2011-01-17T09:35:38Z

Neutral stance on Small Rocket: yeah... but.

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:35, 17 January 2011
Line 24:		Line 24:

	Despite the big gap in damage, it still packs reasonable power (more than various light explosives like the grenade and proxy) and the lighter weight does offer your average strength rookie the chance of carrying extra goods without having to split the load. -[[User:NKF\|NKF]] 01:23, 17 January 2011 (EST)		Despite the big gap in damage, it still packs reasonable power (more than various light explosives like the grenade and proxy) and the lighter weight does offer your average strength rookie the chance of carrying extra goods without having to split the load. -[[User:NKF\|NKF]] 01:23, 17 January 2011 (EST)

			:I started out with the same thinking, but the the more I studied it, the worse they looked. One advantage, for instance, is that they're slightly less dangerous, but they're still not actually safe -- you have to use general safety practices with both types of rockets.

			:The biggest advantage is the lighter weight, but the answer to that is give the RL to anyone who has Strength 34 or better. You're likely to get several soldiers that strong in your first batch, and losing a couple of TUs to overburden is also an option. You can also drop one rocket: launcher + 1 free LR + 2 LR reloads weighs 26, versus launcher +1 free + 3 SR reloads = 28.

			:Small rockets are not useless -- 75 HE is indeed very good -- but I'd say there are almost no cases where large rockets aren't better.--[[User:Ethereal Cereal\|Ethereal Cereal]] 04:35, 17 January 2011 (EST)

NKF: /* Neutral stance on Small Rocket */ new section

2011-01-17T06:23:54Z

Neutral stance on Small Rocket: new section

← Older revision		Revision as of 06:23, 17 January 2011
Line 18:		Line 18:

	:The most efficient way is to just carry a sidearm like the [[Laser Pistol]] on your belt. After the rocket is launched (using a snap shot), move the laser pistol from the belt to the hand and you should still have enough time to fire 2 auto shots. Nice thing about using it after the rocket is you don't have to drop anything because pistols are single handed weapons and don't suffer accuracy penalties if there is something in the opposite hand. --[[User:Zombie\|Zombie]] 08:54, 24 October 2008 (CDT)		:The most efficient way is to just carry a sidearm like the [[Laser Pistol]] on your belt. After the rocket is launched (using a snap shot), move the laser pistol from the belt to the hand and you should still have enough time to fire 2 auto shots. Nice thing about using it after the rocket is you don't have to drop anything because pistols are single handed weapons and don't suffer accuracy penalties if there is something in the opposite hand. --[[User:Zombie\|Zombie]] 08:54, 24 October 2008 (CDT)

			== Neutral stance on Small Rocket ==

			It might be better to revise the article to take a more neutral stance on the Small Rocket rather than discount it over the generally more efficient Large Rocket. Weaker though it may be, it does offer some good benefits.

			Despite the big gap in damage, it still packs reasonable power (more than various light explosives like the grenade and proxy) and the lighter weight does offer your average strength rookie the chance of carrying extra goods without having to split the load. -[[User:NKF\|NKF]] 01:23, 17 January 2011 (EST)

Zombie: A little rewording.

2008-10-24T14:05:37Z

A little rewording.

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:05, 24 October 2008
Line 17:		Line 17:
	You have to admit that's really stretching things to the limit! -[[User:NKF\|NKF]] 03:40, 24 October 2008 (CDT)		You have to admit that's really stretching things to the limit! -[[User:NKF\|NKF]] 03:40, 24 October 2008 (CDT)

	:The most efficient way is to just carry a sidearm like the [[Laser Pistol]] on your belt. After the rocket is launched, move the pistol from the belt to the hand and you should still have enough time to fire 2 auto shots. Nice thing about using ~~the pistol~~ after the rocket is you don't have to drop anything because pistols are single handed weapons and don't suffer accuracy penalties if there is something in the opposite hand. --[[User:Zombie\|Zombie]] 08:54, 24 October 2008 (CDT)		:The most efficient way is to just carry a sidearm like the [[Laser Pistol]] on your belt. After the rocket is launched (using a snap shot), move the laser pistol from the belt to the hand and you should still have enough time to fire 2 auto shots. Nice thing about using it after the rocket is you don't have to drop anything because pistols are single handed weapons and don't suffer accuracy penalties if there is something in the opposite hand. --[[User:Zombie\|Zombie]] 08:54, 24 October 2008 (CDT)

Zombie: Response to dual-wield RL's.

2008-10-24T13:54:47Z

Response to dual-wield RL's.

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:54, 24 October 2008
Line 16:		Line 16:

	You have to admit that's really stretching things to the limit! -[[User:NKF\|NKF]] 03:40, 24 October 2008 (CDT)		You have to admit that's really stretching things to the limit! -[[User:NKF\|NKF]] 03:40, 24 October 2008 (CDT)

			:The most efficient way is to just carry a sidearm like the [[Laser Pistol]] on your belt. After the rocket is launched, move the pistol from the belt to the hand and you should still have enough time to fire 2 auto shots. Nice thing about using the pistol after the rocket is you don't have to drop anything because pistols are single handed weapons and don't suffer accuracy penalties if there is something in the opposite hand. --[[User:Zombie\|Zombie]] 08:54, 24 October 2008 (CDT)

NKF at 08:40, 24 October 2008

2008-10-24T08:40:08Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:40, 24 October 2008
Line 12:		Line 12:

	:A soldier with 80 TUs needs 36 TUs to snap-fire a Rocket Launcher. So snap-firing 2 of them is 72 TUs. This gives him 8 TUs to play with, and according to the [[Inventory TU Table]], it takes EXACTLY 8 TUs to move an item out of the backpack and into an empty hand. So such a soldier could snap fire one Rocket Launcher, flip the other one out of his backpack, and then fire a second, albeit at a -20% penalty(though if he's got that many TUs he can probably take the hit with little trouble). So yes, you could do that, but the soldier would need to be pre-positioned, because no (game-legal, barring the uncapped versions) soldier will have enough TUs to move. And he's completely defenseless during the Alien turn. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft\|Arrow Quivershaft]] 00:28, 24 October 2008 (CDT)		:A soldier with 80 TUs needs 36 TUs to snap-fire a Rocket Launcher. So snap-firing 2 of them is 72 TUs. This gives him 8 TUs to play with, and according to the [[Inventory TU Table]], it takes EXACTLY 8 TUs to move an item out of the backpack and into an empty hand. So such a soldier could snap fire one Rocket Launcher, flip the other one out of his backpack, and then fire a second, albeit at a -20% penalty(though if he's got that many TUs he can probably take the hit with little trouble). So yes, you could do that, but the soldier would need to be pre-positioned, because no (game-legal, barring the uncapped versions) soldier will have enough TUs to move. And he's completely defenseless during the Alien turn. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft\|Arrow Quivershaft]] 00:28, 24 October 2008 (CDT)

			Then perhaps the opposite method would be much more efficient. Have both launchers out, fire one at the -20% penalty and discard it. Then fire the other without the penalty. Since dropping only costs 2 TUs, then you'd still have 6 TUs left to play with. Not much to work with, but if you exposed yourself to danger on the previous turn and ended up standing right next to a wall at the start of the new turn, then perhaps it's just enough to flee to safety.

			You have to admit that's really stretching things to the limit! -[[User:NKF\|NKF]] 03:40, 24 October 2008 (CDT)