Talk:OBDATA.DAT - Revision history

Zombie: /* Fields 29 and 30 */ Proposal for [30]

2015-05-29T05:40:27Z

Fields 29 and 30: Proposal for [30]

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:40, 29 May 2015
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	== Fields 29 and 30 ==		== Fields 29 and 30 ==
	They were mixed up with each other. Actually only value of field_29 matter, I haven't found any references for field_30 in the game code. And I don't know why field 30 was declared as "used". Alien corpse objects have different fields 29 and 30,and field30 always seems to be 0x0F or 0x0E which are rifle clip and grenade objects... . --[[User:Volutar\|Volutar]] 13:01, 5 April 2011 (EDT)		They were mixed up with each other. Actually only value of field_29 matter, I haven't found any references for field_30 in the game code. And I don't know why field 30 was declared as "used". Alien corpse objects have different fields 29 and 30,and field30 always seems to be 0x0F or 0x0E which are rifle clip and grenade objects... . --[[User:Volutar\|Volutar]] 13:01, 5 April 2011 (EDT)

			I think [30] might be used for which firing animation sprite sequence to use. Need to test this out further though. --[[User:Zombie\|Zombie]] ([[User talk:Zombie\|talk]]) 01:40, 29 May 2015 (EDT)

	== Field 0x2D (45) ==		== Field 0x2D (45) ==

Spike: /* Field 0x2D (45) */

2012-10-15T02:44:46Z

Field 0x2D (45)

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:44, 15 October 2012
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	::::: That is: I don't think that an alien that just wakes up after being shot badly, should run away from the weapons it dropped because it was shot. It should pick them up immediately, at least if picking up items costs TUs (this doesn't use energy so it should not trigger reaction shots). The tactic seems to work well in Extender's Alien Pets mode. --[[User:Zaimoni\|Zaimoni]] 8:39, 14 October 2012 (CDT)		::::: That is: I don't think that an alien that just wakes up after being shot badly, should run away from the weapons it dropped because it was shot. It should pick them up immediately, at least if picking up items costs TUs (this doesn't use energy so it should not trigger reaction shots). The tactic seems to work well in Extender's Alien Pets mode. --[[User:Zaimoni\|Zaimoni]] 8:39, 14 October 2012 (CDT)

			:::: You are right. So it should be treated as a bug. By the way the source code of UFOExtender shows it has a 'get' attribute for OBDATA.DAT which is this 'value to get' data. I'm not sure if it's working but if it is that's useful. [[User:Spike\|Spike]] 22:44, 14 October 2012 (EDT)

Zaimoni at 13:39, 14 October 2012

2012-10-14T13:39:38Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:39, 14 October 2012
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	::::: Remember, the object chase code should only apply to disarmed aliens -- no perpetual killing ground without end-game psionics (at which point there are so many abuses it isn't funny). As I see it, the problem is that the AI can't have much mental state in the DOS version because of the memory model (64K per byte-addressable segment max). It wouldn't have been practical to calculate the patrol paths, etc. based on the map. --[[User:Zaimoni\|Zaimoni]] 8:30, 14 October 2012 (CDT)		::::: Remember, the object chase code should only apply to disarmed aliens -- no perpetual killing ground without end-game psionics (at which point there are so many abuses it isn't funny). As I see it, the problem is that the AI can't have much mental state in the DOS version because of the memory model (64K per byte-addressable segment max). It wouldn't have been practical to calculate the patrol paths, etc. based on the map. --[[User:Zaimoni\|Zaimoni]] 8:30, 14 October 2012 (CDT)

			::::: That is: I don't think that an alien that just wakes up after being shot badly, should run away from the weapons it dropped because it was shot. It should pick them up immediately, at least if picking up items costs TUs (this doesn't use energy so it should not trigger reaction shots). The tactic seems to work well in Extender's Alien Pets mode. --[[User:Zaimoni\|Zaimoni]] 8:39, 14 October 2012 (CDT)

Zaimoni at 13:31, 14 October 2012

2012-10-14T13:31:14Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:31, 14 October 2012
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	:::: This is maybe not a bad thing. Otherwise an XCOM sniper with a Stun Launcher (or a brave soldier with a Stun Rod) could potentially set up and stake out a perpetual killing ground. [[User:Spike\|Spike]] 22:23, 13 October 2012 (EDT)		:::: This is maybe not a bad thing. Otherwise an XCOM sniper with a Stun Launcher (or a brave soldier with a Stun Rod) could potentially set up and stake out a perpetual killing ground. [[User:Spike\|Spike]] 22:23, 13 October 2012 (EDT)

			::::: Remember, the object chase code should only apply to disarmed aliens -- no perpetual killing ground without end-game psionics (at which point there are so many abuses it isn't funny). As I see it, the problem is that the AI can't have much mental state in the DOS version because of the memory model (64K per byte-addressable segment max). It wouldn't have been practical to calculate the patrol paths, etc. based on the map. --[[User:Zaimoni\|Zaimoni]] 8:30, 14 October 2012 (CDT)

Spike: /* Field 0x2D (45) */

2012-10-14T02:23:35Z

Field 0x2D (45)

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:23, 14 October 2012
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	::: Just did a light test of this (setting the AI worthiness of weapons to their damage). Note that weapons carried by aliens stunned during X-COM's turn are ignored even if there are no agents covering the alien on recovering, so it's very likely the flaky field settings were not testably different than the designed behavior. --[[User:Zaimoni\|Zaimoni]] 13:37, 13 October 2012 (CDT)		::: Just did a light test of this (setting the AI worthiness of weapons to their damage). Note that weapons carried by aliens stunned during X-COM's turn are ignored even if there are no agents covering the alien on recovering, so it's very likely the flaky field settings were not testably different than the designed behavior. --[[User:Zaimoni\|Zaimoni]] 13:37, 13 October 2012 (CDT)

			:::: This is maybe not a bad thing. Otherwise an XCOM sniper with a Stun Launcher (or a brave soldier with a Stun Rod) could potentially set up and stake out a perpetual killing ground. [[User:Spike\|Spike]] 22:23, 13 October 2012 (EDT)

Zaimoni at 16:21, 13 October 2012

2012-10-13T16:21:59Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:21, 13 October 2012
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	:: Another thing discovered, which could make you slightly happy. This "picking up" scanning function takes only objects in account, appeared on ground when it wasn't XCOM turn. It means player cannot force aliens to take them as bait. If alien killed some XCOM he could pick up his weapon as trophy. So, this is not the subject to concern about. By the way, when discovering this I found that ObjPos flagfield_10 was treated wrong: bit 0 flags those objects, which were dropped on player's move and bit 1 means aliens were the reason of objects appeared on the ground. --[[User:Volutar\|Volutar]] 13:37, 5 April 2011 (EDT)		:: Another thing discovered, which could make you slightly happy. This "picking up" scanning function takes only objects in account, appeared on ground when it wasn't XCOM turn. It means player cannot force aliens to take them as bait. If alien killed some XCOM he could pick up his weapon as trophy. So, this is not the subject to concern about. By the way, when discovering this I found that ObjPos flagfield_10 was treated wrong: bit 0 flags those objects, which were dropped on player's move and bit 1 means aliens were the reason of objects appeared on the ground. --[[User:Volutar\|Volutar]] 13:37, 5 April 2011 (EDT)

			::: Just did a light test of this (setting the AI worthiness of weapons to their damage). Note that weapons carried by aliens stunned during X-COM's turn are ignored even if there are no agents covering the alien on recovering, so it's very likely the flaky field settings were not testably different than the designed behavior. --[[User:Zaimoni\|Zaimoni]] 13:37, 13 October 2012 (CDT)

Volutar: /* Field 0x2D (45) */

2011-04-05T17:43:27Z

Field 0x2D (45)

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:43, 5 April 2011
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	: (Reset indent level). Sorry I missed that answer about completely depleted ammo. Your answer about which races will pick up weapons means there is the possibility that an alien with strong Psi capability would get killed by coming out into the open to collect a weapon that it doesn't really need. That would be a backward step. Maybe we could test for that. [[User:Spike\|Spike]] 14:21, 3 April 2011 (EDT)		: (Reset indent level). Sorry I missed that answer about completely depleted ammo. Your answer about which races will pick up weapons means there is the possibility that an alien with strong Psi capability would get killed by coming out into the open to collect a weapon that it doesn't really need. That would be a backward step. Maybe we could test for that. [[User:Spike\|Spike]] 14:21, 3 April 2011 (EDT)

	:: Another thing discovered, which could make you happy. This "picking up" scanning function takes only ~~those~~ objects in account, ~~which~~ appeared on ground when it wasn't XCOM turn. It means player cannot force aliens to take them as ~~bate~~. If ~~aliens~~ killed some XCOM it could ~~pickup~~ his weapon as trophy. So, this is not the subject to concern about. By the way, ~~why~~ discovering this I found that ObjPos ~~flagfield~~ was treated ~~wrongly,~~ bit 0 flags those objects, which were dropped on player's move and bit 1 means aliens were the reason of objects appeared on the ground. --[[User:Volutar\|Volutar]] 13:37, 5 April 2011 (EDT)		:: Another thing discovered, which could make you slightly happy. This "picking up" scanning function takes only objects in account, appeared on ground when it wasn't XCOM turn. It means player cannot force aliens to take them as bait. If alien killed some XCOM he could pick up his weapon as trophy. So, this is not the subject to concern about. By the way, when discovering this I found that ObjPos flagfield_10 was treated wrong: bit 0 flags those objects, which were dropped on player's move and bit 1 means aliens were the reason of objects appeared on the ground. --[[User:Volutar\|Volutar]] 13:37, 5 April 2011 (EDT)

Volutar: /* Field 0x2D (45), another tiny discovery */

2011-04-05T17:37:17Z

Field 0x2D (45), another tiny discovery

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:37, 5 April 2011
Line 120:		Line 120:

	: (Reset indent level). Sorry I missed that answer about completely depleted ammo. Your answer about which races will pick up weapons means there is the possibility that an alien with strong Psi capability would get killed by coming out into the open to collect a weapon that it doesn't really need. That would be a backward step. Maybe we could test for that. [[User:Spike\|Spike]] 14:21, 3 April 2011 (EDT)		: (Reset indent level). Sorry I missed that answer about completely depleted ammo. Your answer about which races will pick up weapons means there is the possibility that an alien with strong Psi capability would get killed by coming out into the open to collect a weapon that it doesn't really need. That would be a backward step. Maybe we could test for that. [[User:Spike\|Spike]] 14:21, 3 April 2011 (EDT)

			:: Another thing discovered, which could make you happy. This "picking up" scanning function takes only those objects in account, which appeared on ground when it wasn't XCOM turn. It means player cannot force aliens to take them as bate. If aliens killed some XCOM it could pickup his weapon as trophy. So, this is not the subject to concern about. By the way, why discovering this I found that ObjPos flagfield was treated wrongly, bit 0 flags those objects, which were dropped on player's move and bit 1 means aliens were the reason of objects appeared on the ground. --[[User:Volutar\|Volutar]] 13:37, 5 April 2011 (EDT)

Volutar: /* Field 29 and 30 */

2011-04-05T17:01:16Z

Field 29 and 30

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:01, 5 April 2011
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	:It would be real fun if the blaster bomb could be turned into a huge area-of-effect ''stun'' bomb. :) -[[User:MikeTheRed\|MikeTheRed]] 13:22, 24 November 2008 (CST)		:It would be real fun if the blaster bomb could be turned into a huge area-of-effect ''stun'' bomb. :) -[[User:MikeTheRed\|MikeTheRed]] 13:22, 24 November 2008 (CST)

			== Fields 29 and 30 ==
			They were mixed up with each other. Actually only value of field_29 matter, I haven't found any references for field_30 in the game code. And I don't know why field 30 was declared as "used". Alien corpse objects have different fields 29 and 30,and field30 always seems to be 0x0F or 0x0E which are rifle clip and grenade objects... . --[[User:Volutar\|Volutar]] 13:01, 5 April 2011 (EDT)

	== Field 0x2D (45) ==		== Field 0x2D (45) ==

Spike: /* Field 0x2D (45) */ slight reorg. risk of Psi aliens getting killed for dropped weapons

2011-04-03T18:21:04Z

Field 0x2D (45): slight reorg. risk of Psi aliens getting killed for dropped weapons

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:21, 3 April 2011
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	I've patched ObData.Dat file (replaced all field_2d values of 0x01 with 0x10) and observed AI picking up dropped items. I don't know why this field was disabled, though I can presume it could be heavily used as "bait" like cheat because this estimation function cannot "skip" items if AI unit already has attacking weapons and clips (maybe this "taking" function ain't even called if unit is fully equiped - I didn't check that). Probably it wasn't finished... Which is weird. --[[User:Volutar\|Volutar]] 08:07, 26 March 2011 (EDT)		I've patched ObData.Dat file (replaced all field_2d values of 0x01 with 0x10) and observed AI picking up dropped items. I don't know why this field was disabled, though I can presume it could be heavily used as "bait" like cheat because this estimation function cannot "skip" items if AI unit already has attacking weapons and clips (maybe this "taking" function ain't even called if unit is fully equiped - I didn't check that). Probably it wasn't finished... Which is weird. --[[User:Volutar\|Volutar]] 08:07, 26 March 2011 (EDT)

			Firstly it fills some buffer (maximum length is 50 elements) with items, having flag field (+0x0c) with bit1 set (& 0x02). Then it calculates most worthy item as maximum of ''worthToTake/(distance+1)''. And only after that it will try to pick this item up if distance is less than ''worthToTake-5''. So this value is matter when AI choosing object to pickup. And of course when AI sees some attacking options, it chooses most effective. When estimating grenade efectiveness it thinks that 1 friendly unit equal 2 enemy. So if there will be 1 friend with 2 enemies at very close distance, AI won't even try to blow them up.--[[User:Volutar\|Volutar]] 12:55, 1 April 2011 (EDT)

	:This is really good news that you found this function for aliens to pick things up . Finding a way to activate it could eliminate the silly problem of unarmed aliens who won't pick up weapons. You are right there is a risk of a "item bait" tactic being used. The trick would be to make sure that item pickup is only used by aliens who are unarmed or (better) for aliens who lack a weapon that is effective against X-Com, to pick up a weapon that ''is'' effective. [[User:Spike\|Spike]] 17:28, 28 March 2011 (EDT)		:This is really good news that you found this function for aliens to pick things up . Finding a way to activate it could eliminate the silly problem of unarmed aliens who won't pick up weapons. You are right there is a risk of a "item bait" tactic being used. The trick would be to make sure that item pickup is only used by aliens who are unarmed or (better) for aliens who lack a weapon that is effective against X-Com, to pick up a weapon that ''is'' effective. [[User:Spike\|Spike]] 17:28, 28 March 2011 (EDT)
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	:::::: Only Sectoids, Snakemans, Ethereals, Mutons and Floaters are capable of taking weapon from the ground. Another answer is already given: ''"3) if '''ground clip''' fits to weapon he already has (to take extra clips for weapon with depleted ammo)"--[[User:Volutar\|Volutar]] 14:07, 3 April 2011 (EDT)		:::::: Only Sectoids, Snakemans, Ethereals, Mutons and Floaters are capable of taking weapon from the ground. Another answer is already given: ''"3) if '''ground clip''' fits to weapon he already has (to take extra clips for weapon with depleted ammo)"--[[User:Volutar\|Volutar]] 14:07, 3 April 2011 (EDT)

	~~Firstly it fills some buffer (maximum length is 50 elements) with items, having flag field (+0x0c) with bit1 set~~ (~~& 0x02~~). ~~Then it calculates most worthy item as maximum of ''worthToTake/(distance+1)''~~. ~~And only after that it~~ will ~~try to~~ pick ~~this item~~ up ~~if distance~~ is ~~less than ''worthToTake-5'~~'. ~~So this value is matter when AI choosing object to pickup. And of course when AI sees some attacking options, it chooses most effective~~. ~~When estimating grenade efectiveness it thinks~~ that ~~1 friendly unit equal 2 enemy. So if there will be 1 friend with 2 enemies at very close distance, AI won't even try to blow them up~~.--[[User:~~Volutar~~\|~~Volutar~~]] 12:55, 1 April 2011 (EDT)		: (Reset indent level). Sorry I missed that answer about completely depleted ammo. Your answer about which races will pick up weapons means there is the possibility that an alien with strong Psi capability would get killed by coming out into the open to collect a weapon that it doesn't really need. That would be a backward step. Maybe we could test for that. [[User:Spike\|Spike]] 14:21, 3 April 2011 (EDT)

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:21, 3 April 2011
Line 87:		Line 87:

	I've patched ObData.Dat file (replaced all field_2d values of 0x01 with 0x10) and observed AI picking up dropped items. I don't know why this field was disabled, though I can presume it could be heavily used as "bait" like cheat because this estimation function cannot "skip" items if AI unit already has attacking weapons and clips (maybe this "taking" function ain't even called if unit is fully equiped - I didn't check that). Probably it wasn't finished... Which is weird. --[[User:Volutar\|Volutar]] 08:07, 26 March 2011 (EDT)		I've patched ObData.Dat file (replaced all field_2d values of 0x01 with 0x10) and observed AI picking up dropped items. I don't know why this field was disabled, though I can presume it could be heavily used as "bait" like cheat because this estimation function cannot "skip" items if AI unit already has attacking weapons and clips (maybe this "taking" function ain't even called if unit is fully equiped - I didn't check that). Probably it wasn't finished... Which is weird. --[[User:Volutar\|Volutar]] 08:07, 26 March 2011 (EDT)

			Firstly it fills some buffer (maximum length is 50 elements) with items, having flag field (+0x0c) with bit1 set (& 0x02). Then it calculates most worthy item as maximum of ''worthToTake/(distance+1)''. And only after that it will try to pick this item up if distance is less than ''worthToTake-5''. So this value is matter when AI choosing object to pickup. And of course when AI sees some attacking options, it chooses most effective. When estimating grenade efectiveness it thinks that 1 friendly unit equal 2 enemy. So if there will be 1 friend with 2 enemies at very close distance, AI won't even try to blow them up.--[[User:Volutar\|Volutar]] 12:55, 1 April 2011 (EDT)

	:This is really good news that you found this function for aliens to pick things up . Finding a way to activate it could eliminate the silly problem of unarmed aliens who won't pick up weapons. You are right there is a risk of a "item bait" tactic being used. The trick would be to make sure that item pickup is only used by aliens who are unarmed or (better) for aliens who lack a weapon that is effective against X-Com, to pick up a weapon that ''is'' effective. [[User:Spike\|Spike]] 17:28, 28 March 2011 (EDT)		:This is really good news that you found this function for aliens to pick things up . Finding a way to activate it could eliminate the silly problem of unarmed aliens who won't pick up weapons. You are right there is a risk of a "item bait" tactic being used. The trick would be to make sure that item pickup is only used by aliens who are unarmed or (better) for aliens who lack a weapon that is effective against X-Com, to pick up a weapon that ''is'' effective. [[User:Spike\|Spike]] 17:28, 28 March 2011 (EDT)
Line 114:		Line 116:
	:::::: Only Sectoids, Snakemans, Ethereals, Mutons and Floaters are capable of taking weapon from the ground. Another answer is already given: ''"3) if '''ground clip''' fits to weapon he already has (to take extra clips for weapon with depleted ammo)"--[[User:Volutar\|Volutar]] 14:07, 3 April 2011 (EDT)		:::::: Only Sectoids, Snakemans, Ethereals, Mutons and Floaters are capable of taking weapon from the ground. Another answer is already given: ''"3) if '''ground clip''' fits to weapon he already has (to take extra clips for weapon with depleted ammo)"--[[User:Volutar\|Volutar]] 14:07, 3 April 2011 (EDT)

	~~Firstly it fills some buffer (maximum length is 50 elements) with items, having flag field (+0x0c) with bit1 set~~ (~~& 0x02~~). ~~Then it calculates most worthy item as maximum of ''worthToTake/(distance+1)''~~. ~~And only after that it~~ will ~~try to~~ pick ~~this item~~ up ~~if distance~~ is ~~less than ''worthToTake-5'~~'. ~~So this value is matter when AI choosing object to pickup. And of course when AI sees some attacking options, it chooses most effective~~. ~~When estimating grenade efectiveness it thinks~~ that ~~1 friendly unit equal 2 enemy. So if there will be 1 friend with 2 enemies at very close distance, AI won't even try to blow them up~~.--[[User:~~Volutar~~\|~~Volutar~~]] 12:55, 1 April 2011 (EDT)		: (Reset indent level). Sorry I missed that answer about completely depleted ammo. Your answer about which races will pick up weapons means there is the possibility that an alien with strong Psi capability would get killed by coming out into the open to collect a weapon that it doesn't really need. That would be a backward step. Maybe we could test for that. [[User:Spike\|Spike]] 14:21, 3 April 2011 (EDT)