https://temp.ufopaedia.org/index.php?action=history&feed=atom&title=Talk%3ALine_of_sightTalk:Line of sight - Revision history2026-05-01T03:50:51ZRevision history for this page on the wikiMediaWiki 1.43.6https://temp.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Line_of_sight&diff=28360&oldid=prevBomb Bloke at 08:08, 27 June 20102010-06-27T08:08:41Z<p></p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Also, do you know if different elevations affect distance? If you're 20 away on the same level, then rise up one, are you still 20? (Can you still see them?) One would presume not. I can test that shortly, too.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Also, do you know if different elevations affect distance? If you're 20 away on the same level, then rise up one, are you still 20? (Can you still see them?) One would presume not. I can test that shortly, too.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Also TBD: Illumination distance of electroflares. I just checked the wiki and it doesn't seem to be anywhere. I can test that. Then there's e.g. city lights and a number of other light sources... checking [[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">TERRAIN|</del>MCD]][58] vs. my MCD database, I see that there are 11 terrain entries that produce light: 7 alien base objects, 2 XCOM base ground tiles, and 2 city objects (street lamp and large standing room lamp). They all have an illumination rating which in theory could be tested. But the flare is most important.</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Also TBD: Illumination distance of electroflares. I just checked the wiki and it doesn't seem to be anywhere. I can test that. Then there's e.g. city lights and a number of other light sources... checking [[MCD]][58] vs. my MCD database, I see that there are 11 terrain entries that produce light: 7 alien base objects, 2 XCOM base ground tiles, and 2 city objects (street lamp and large standing room lamp). They all have an illumination rating which in theory could be tested. But the flare is most important.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>So many little questions, so little time :P </div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>So many little questions, so little time :P </div></td></tr>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Give the new map a look.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Give the new map a look.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I don't know much at all about smoke. Others like NKF and Zombie may know a lot. It would be interesting to see tactics based on knowing how it works. FWIW [[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">TERRAIN</del>]][51] might (or might not!) function similarly... amount of light blocked, with values 0-10.</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I don't know much at all about smoke. Others like NKF and Zombie may know a lot. It would be interesting to see tactics based on knowing how it works. FWIW [[<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">MCD</ins>]][51] might (or might not!) function similarly... amount of light blocked, with values 0-10.</div></td></tr>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>---[[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]] 17:40, 5 June 2006 (PDT)</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>---[[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]] 17:40, 5 June 2006 (PDT)</div></td></tr>
</table>Bomb Blokehttps://temp.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Line_of_sight&diff=17769&oldid=prevSpike: Eyes in the back of their head - After Turn 20?2008-11-15T22:49:56Z<p>Eyes in the back of their head - After Turn 20?</p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>: I've been wondering about this. It seems to apply to some aliens and yet not to others. Must be depending on what they've been instructed to do at the moment (patrol or pursue, or whatever). In which case you could probably move a soldier up as close as possible while being hidden by a wall, and then have another soldier a little further away rush in and attack the distracted alien later. If it applied to every alien, you'd never have to worry about getting ambushed while entering a UFO bridge ever again, but as it doesn't every time so cannot be relied on. </div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>: I've been wondering about this. It seems to apply to some aliens and yet not to others. Must be depending on what they've been instructed to do at the moment (patrol or pursue, or whatever). In which case you could probably move a soldier up as close as possible while being hidden by a wall, and then have another soldier a little further away rush in and attack the distracted alien later. If it applied to every alien, you'd never have to worry about getting ambushed while entering a UFO bridge ever again, but as it doesn't every time so cannot be relied on. </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>: Note, you might want to get some practice in TFTD with the power drills. Truly brilliant weapons that make in-door combat a breeze. UFO's stun rod is slower so might be harder to use, but nothing impossible to work with. By the way, consider using the mind probe to gauge the aliens' remaining TUs before you rush an alien with a stun rod. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 17:18, 14 November 2008 (CST)</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>: Note, you might want to get some practice in TFTD with the power drills. Truly brilliant weapons that make in-door combat a breeze. UFO's stun rod is slower so might be harder to use, but nothing impossible to work with. By the way, consider using the mind probe to gauge the aliens' remaining TUs before you rush an alien with a stun rod. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 17:18, 14 November 2008 (CST)</div></td></tr>
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<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Question: did this behaviour happen before, or after, Turn 20? After Turn 20, the aliens know the positions of all your units, which ''might'' be the explanation of why you can't sneak up on them. Though I would not expect that information to be updated on XCOM's turn. But who knows. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 16:49, 15 November 2008 (CST)</ins></div></td></tr>
</table>Spikehttps://temp.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Line_of_sight&diff=17709&oldid=prevNKF at 23:18, 14 November 20082008-11-14T23:18:32Z<p></p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I'm starting to get frustrated. Aliens seem to partially ignore LOS. For example: I stepped in with a soldier to get the alien's attention. From then on, it continually faced my direction (remembering where I am, this is normal). However, when I moved in with a different guy to try to stun it from behind, it turned to face him (with the soldier hiding behind a wall), even though it didn't see him coming! So what I'm trying to tell you is that aliens seem to always know where the nearest soldier is and face him/her, regardless of LOS. This is the main reason why Stun Rods are ineffective: you can't sneak up on an alien without it knowing.--[[User:Amitakartok|amitakartok]] 14:51, 14 November 2008 (CST)</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I'm starting to get frustrated. Aliens seem to partially ignore LOS. For example: I stepped in with a soldier to get the alien's attention. From then on, it continually faced my direction (remembering where I am, this is normal). However, when I moved in with a different guy to try to stun it from behind, it turned to face him (with the soldier hiding behind a wall), even though it didn't see him coming! So what I'm trying to tell you is that aliens seem to always know where the nearest soldier is and face him/her, regardless of LOS. This is the main reason why Stun Rods are ineffective: you can't sneak up on an alien without it knowing.--[[User:Amitakartok|amitakartok]] 14:51, 14 November 2008 (CST)</div></td></tr>
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<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">: I've been wondering about this. It seems to apply to some aliens and yet not to others. Must be depending on what they've been instructed to do at the moment (patrol or pursue, or whatever). In which case you could probably move a soldier up as close as possible while being hidden by a wall, and then have another soldier a little further away rush in and attack the distracted alien later. If it applied to every alien, you'd never have to worry about getting ambushed while entering a UFO bridge ever again, but as it doesn't every time so cannot be relied on. </ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">: Note, you might want to get some practice in TFTD with the power drills. Truly brilliant weapons that make in-door combat a breeze. UFO's stun rod is slower so might be harder to use, but nothing impossible to work with. By the way, consider using the mind probe to gauge the aliens' remaining TUs before you rush an alien with a stun rod. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 17:18, 14 November 2008 (CST)</ins></div></td></tr>
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</table>NKFhttps://temp.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Line_of_sight&diff=17696&oldid=prevAmitakartok at 20:51, 14 November 20082008-11-14T20:51:46Z<p></p>
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<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">I'm starting to get frustrated. Aliens seem to partially ignore LOS. For example: I stepped in with a soldier to get the alien's attention. From then on, it continually faced my direction (remembering where I am, this is normal). However, when I moved in with a different guy to try to stun it from behind, it turned to face him (with the soldier hiding behind a wall), even though it didn't see him coming! So what I'm trying to tell you is that aliens seem to always know where the nearest soldier is and face him/her, regardless of LOS. This is the main reason why Stun Rods are ineffective: you can't sneak up on an alien without it knowing.--[[User:Amitakartok|amitakartok]] 14:51, 14 November 2008 (CST)</ins></div></td></tr>
</table>Amitakartokhttps://temp.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Line_of_sight&diff=9441&oldid=prevHobbes at 23:41, 1 January 20072007-01-01T23:41:33Z<p></p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>--[[User:Zaimoni|Zaimoni]] 11:03, 1 Jan 2007 (CST)</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>--[[User:Zaimoni|Zaimoni]] 11:03, 1 Jan 2007 (CST)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">When unseen aliens block LOF towards an object you can use that to fire at the alien. It is a matter of trying to figure out the locatin of the alien and firing there. If there's a clear LOF you'll either manage to fire at it (although hitting is a different matter...) or miss altogether. Doesn't work all the time but if you have 2 or 3 rocket launchers it can make quite a difference...</ins></div></td></tr>
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<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">[[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 15:41, 1 January 2007 (PST)</ins></div></td></tr>
</table>Hobbeshttps://temp.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Line_of_sight&diff=9440&oldid=prevZaimoni at 17:05, 1 January 20072007-01-01T17:05:58Z<p></p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>--[[User:Zaimoni|Zaimoni]] 12:06, 23 Nov 2006 (CST)</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>--[[User:Zaimoni|Zaimoni]] 12:06, 23 Nov 2006 (CST)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Back testing <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">turn</del>-swapping...and experimenting with "suppression fire". [Did a reinstall of XcomUtil without the SHP:CFG flag -- the viability of the extended Interceptor as a mini-troop transport is critically dependent on defective AI.] Beyond range 20, the targeting is weird: empty space is not (reliably) targetable, and even with an object to target an unsighted alien in the square will block LOF. Sighted aliens are valid targets.</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Back testing <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">side</ins>-swapping...and experimenting with "suppression fire". [Did a reinstall of XcomUtil without the SHP:CFG flag -- the viability of the extended Interceptor as a mini-troop transport is critically dependent on defective AI.] Beyond range 20, the targeting is weird: empty space is not (reliably) targetable, and even with an object to target an unsighted alien in the square will block LOF. Sighted aliens are valid targets.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>--[[User:Zaimoni|Zaimoni]] 11:03, 1 Jan 2007 (CST)</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>--[[User:Zaimoni|Zaimoni]] 11:03, 1 Jan 2007 (CST)</div></td></tr>
</table>Zaimonihttps://temp.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Line_of_sight&diff=9439&oldid=prevZaimoni at 17:03, 1 January 20072007-01-01T17:03:06Z<p></p>
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</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l131">Line 131:</td>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Back testing turn-swapping...and experimenting with "suppression fire". [Did a reinstall of XcomUtil without the SHP:CFG flag -- the viability of the extended Interceptor as a mini-troop transport is critically dependent on defective AI.] Beyond range 20, the targeting is weird: empty space is not (reliably) targetable, and even with an object to target an unsighted alien in the square will block LOF. Sighted aliens are valid targets.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Back testing turn-swapping...and experimenting with "suppression fire". [Did a reinstall of XcomUtil without the SHP:CFG flag -- the viability of the extended Interceptor as a mini-troop transport is critically dependent on defective AI.] Beyond range 20, the targeting is weird: empty space is not (reliably) targetable, and even with an object to target an unsighted alien in the square will block LOF. Sighted aliens are valid targets.</div></td></tr>
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<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">--[[User:Zaimoni|Zaimoni]] 11:03, 1 Jan 2007 (CST)</ins></div></td></tr>
</table>Zaimonihttps://temp.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Line_of_sight&diff=9438&oldid=prevZaimoni at 17:02, 1 January 20072007-01-01T17:02:21Z<p></p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>--[[User:Zaimoni|Zaimoni]] 12:06, 23 Nov 2006 (CST)</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>--[[User:Zaimoni|Zaimoni]] 12:06, 23 Nov 2006 (CST)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Back testing turn-swapping...and experimenting with "suppression fire". [Did a reinstall of XcomUtil without the SHP:CFG flag -- the viability of the extended Interceptor as a mini-troop transport is critically dependent on defective AI.] Beyond range 20, the targeting is weird: empty space is not (reliably) targetable, and even with an object to target an unsighted alien in the square will block LOF. Sighted aliens are valid targets.</ins></div></td></tr>
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</table>Zaimonihttps://temp.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Line_of_sight&diff=9325&oldid=prevZaimoni at 17:58, 23 November 20062006-11-23T17:58:19Z<p></p>
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</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l119">Line 119:</td>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>- Egor</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>- Egor</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">-------</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Line of Sight is <b>not</b> Line of Fire. I just verified this the hard way on a desert map/Sectoid Medium Scout.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Line of Sight takes into account the sighting unit's elevation. Line of Fire <b>doesn't</b> take into account the firing unit's elevation. The dune I was standing on, was blocking my line of fire. [No comment about the <b>target's</b> elevation.]</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Also, the "during alien turn" vision rules are a bit different. In farm terrain, this allows abuse of those low stone walls -- when crouching, they block line of fire, and permit seeing aliens past them <b>only</b> during the alien turn at a variety of ranges. (Not thoroughly tested, so this abuse may fail at very close or very long range).</ins></div></td></tr>
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<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">--[[User:Zaimoni|Zaimoni]] 12:06, 23 Nov 2006 (CST)</ins></div></td></tr>
</table>Zaimonihttps://temp.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Line_of_sight&diff=8941&oldid=prevEgor at 20:37, 23 September 20062006-09-23T20:37:40Z<p></p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>--[[User:Zaimoni|Zaimoni]] 15:13, 15 August 2006 (CDT)</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>--[[User:Zaimoni|Zaimoni]] 15:13, 15 August 2006 (CDT)</div></td></tr>
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<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">--------</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">I have regularly found blind spots sighting sectiods and snakemen behind fences. These vary whether your soldier is standing or kneeling. </ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Another common blind spot is when spotting an alien that is at a different elevation. I suspect intervening terrain, such as the crest of a hill, is considered differently when LOS is calculated in each direction. For example, I've often found that a cyberdisc hovering on the 2nd level, hiding in a building where the 2nd level walls are present but the 1st floor walls/doors are gone, is in a blind spot.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">- Egor</ins></div></td></tr>
</table>Egor