Talk:Kill Modelling - Revision history

Demon0n at 21:41, 20 March 2011

2011-03-20T21:41:43Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:41, 20 March 2011
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	It would be nice to mention that this model work only on beginner difficulty. For example: on superhuman difficulty level flying suit doesn't protect veterans or elite even from single hit of heavy plasma in frontal armor. Based on huge experience and brutal game testing.		It would be nice to mention that this model work only on beginner difficulty. For example: on superhuman difficulty level flying suit doesn't protect veterans or elite even from single hit of heavy plasma in frontal armor. Based on huge experience and brutal game testing.
	-~~DemonOn~~ March ~~18,~~ 2011		-[[User:Demon0n\|Demon0n]] 17:41, 20 March 2011 (EDT)

	:Hi DemonOn,		:Hi DemonOn,

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	:: Hi.		:: Hi.

	:: Looks like you are right. Never played others difficulty levels except the first walkthrough(beginner... It was long time ago...). Tested that today and it seems like there is some kind of "dice throw" model used "hit_no_penetration/hit_penetrated(injured + armor damage)/hit_critical(killed)" among other calculations. - ~~DemonOn~~		:: Looks like you are right. Never played others difficulty levels except the first walkthrough(beginner... It was long time ago...). Tested that today and it seems like there is some kind of "dice throw" model used "hit_no_penetration/hit_penetrated(injured + armor damage)/hit_critical(killed)" among other calculations. -[[User:Demon0n\|Demon0n]] 17:41, 20 March 2011 (EDT)

	::: Again, please sign your comments!		::: Again, please sign your comments!

NKF at 22:39, 19 March 2011

2011-03-19T22:39:46Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:39, 19 March 2011
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	::: The most health any given unit can have is 60, so that's roughly a 25% chance of "instant" death (keeping in mind that fatal wounds have the potential to finish the job); assuming the unit has as much health as it can (full training + no previous damage that mission), is being hit from the front only once, etc... But assuming the shot has connected, there's only one real damage roll after that. - <span style="font-size:xx-small"> [[User:Bomb_Bloke\|Bomb Bloke]] ([[User_talk:Bomb_Bloke\|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Bomb_Bloke\|Contribs]])</span> 18:35, 19 March 2011 (EDT)		::: The most health any given unit can have is 60, so that's roughly a 25% chance of "instant" death (keeping in mind that fatal wounds have the potential to finish the job); assuming the unit has as much health as it can (full training + no previous damage that mission), is being hit from the front only once, etc... But assuming the shot has connected, there's only one real damage roll after that. - <span style="font-size:xx-small"> [[User:Bomb_Bloke\|Bomb Bloke]] ([[User_talk:Bomb_Bloke\|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Bomb_Bloke\|Contribs]])</span> 18:35, 19 March 2011 (EDT)

			:::: I was going to point to the [[Damage]] page for the specifics, but after reading it I've found it to be very confusing. Time to mark it for a rewrite! -[[User:NKF\|NKF]] 18:39, 19 March 2011 (EDT)

Bomb Bloke at 22:35, 19 March 2011

2011-03-19T22:35:44Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:35, 19 March 2011
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	:: Hi.		:: Hi.

	:: Looks like you are right. Never played others difficulty levels except the first walkthrough(beginner... It was long time ago...). Tested that today and it seems like there is some kind of "dice throw" model used "hit_no_penetration/hit_penetrated(injured + armor damage)/hit_critical(killed)" among other calculations.		:: Looks like you are right. Never played others difficulty levels except the first walkthrough(beginner... It was long time ago...). Tested that today and it seems like there is some kind of "dice throw" model used "hit_no_penetration/hit_penetrated(injured + armor damage)/hit_critical(killed)" among other calculations. - DemonOn

			::: Again, please sign your comments!

			::: The formula for projectile [[Damage]] is simple enough; take the rated power of the weapon, double it, and choose a random number from 0 to that figure. Multiply the result by the relevant damage modifier percentage, subtract the unit's relevant armour stat, and you've got your final damage figure.

			::: For example, the [[Heavy Plasma]] is rated at 115 damage. That means it'll roll from 0 to 230. A human takes 100% of the damage, so the result is not multiplied, but you still subtract the frontal armour value (110). That means the final damage dealt will be anywhere from 0 to 120, with a near 50% chance of no damage being dealt at all.

			::: The most health any given unit can have is 60, so that's roughly a 25% chance of "instant" death (keeping in mind that fatal wounds have the potential to finish the job); assuming the unit has as much health as it can (full training + no previous damage that mission), is being hit from the front only once, etc... But assuming the shot has connected, there's only one real damage roll after that. - <span style="font-size:xx-small"> [[User:Bomb_Bloke\|Bomb Bloke]] ([[User_talk:Bomb_Bloke\|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Bomb_Bloke\|Contribs]])</span> 18:35, 19 March 2011 (EDT)

Demon0n at 13:53, 19 March 2011

2011-03-19T13:53:30Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:53, 19 March 2011
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	:Save humanity from the alien threat! -[[User:MikeTheRed\|MikeTheRed]] 23:07, 18 March 2011 (EDT)		:Save humanity from the alien threat! -[[User:MikeTheRed\|MikeTheRed]] 23:07, 18 March 2011 (EDT)

			:: Hi.

			:: Looks like you are right. Never played others difficulty levels except the first walkthrough(beginner... It was long time ago...). Tested that today and it seems like there is some kind of "dice throw" model used "hit_no_penetration/hit_penetrated(injured + armor damage)/hit_critical(killed)" among other calculations.

MikeTheRed at 03:07, 19 March 2011

2011-03-19T03:07:54Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:07, 19 March 2011
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	It would be nice to mention that this model work only on beginner difficulty. For example: on superhuman difficulty level flying suit doesn't protect veterans or elite even from single hit of heavy plasma in frontal armor. Based on huge experience and brutal game testing.		It would be nice to mention that this model work only on beginner difficulty. For example: on superhuman difficulty level flying suit doesn't protect veterans or elite even from single hit of heavy plasma in frontal armor. Based on huge experience and brutal game testing.
			-DemonOn March 18, 2011

			:Hi DemonOn,

			:As shown in the spreadsheet on the Extended Model page, it takes a minimum of one hit and an average of 3.1 ± 2.2 hits to kill an elite soldier in Flying Armor with a heavy plasma. And you're right - this is a conservative estimate (i.e., one could die more quickly), because my "experience training" model assumed one was trying to hit at least two sides. I trust you're not implying that armor changes according to difficulty level; it doesn't... you won't die more quickly on the highest levels due to worse armor or better heavy plasmas, but because aliens shoot better and survive longer (see [[Alien Stats]]), and of course, they're not waiting for you to turn so they can hit you in two different sides. You're more than welcome to edit the big Author's Note I made... I doubt I will get around to working with this model again.

			:When possible, sign your notes with <nowiki>-~~~~</nowiki> ... if authors don't do that, soon enough, nobody will know who said what, when.

			:Save humanity from the alien threat! -[[User:MikeTheRed\|MikeTheRed]] 23:07, 18 March 2011 (EDT)

Demon0n at 01:06, 19 March 2011

2011-03-19T01:06:34Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:06, 19 March 2011
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	I've learned a lot of exceptions and technicalities over the months. Chiefly, I wish I had made a second table of kill modeling not focused on the "firing squad" scenario, but instead covering the "fighting for your life in the early game" situation. Damn, there have been a number of good games lately. They seem to come in rushes. --[[User:MikeTheRed\|MikeTheRed]] 00:08, 6 July 2007 (PDT)		I've learned a lot of exceptions and technicalities over the months. Chiefly, I wish I had made a second table of kill modeling not focused on the "firing squad" scenario, but instead covering the "fighting for your life in the early game" situation. Damn, there have been a number of good games lately. They seem to come in rushes. --[[User:MikeTheRed\|MikeTheRed]] 00:08, 6 July 2007 (PDT)

			----

			It would be nice to mention that this model work only on beginner difficulty. For example: on superhuman difficulty level flying suit doesn't protect veterans or elite even from single hit of heavy plasma in frontal armor. Based on huge experience and brutal game testing.

NKF: Reverted edits by Brunpal (Talk); changed back to last version by MikeTheRed

2008-08-01T20:44:25Z

Reverted edits by Brunpal (Talk); changed back to last version by MikeTheRed

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:44, 1 August 2008
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	I've learned a lot of exceptions and technicalities over the months. Chiefly, I wish I had made a second table of kill modeling not focused on the "firing squad" scenario, but instead covering the "fighting for your life in the early game" situation. Damn, there have been a number of good games lately. They seem to come in rushes. --[[User:MikeTheRed\|MikeTheRed]] 00:08, 6 July 2007 (PDT)		I've learned a lot of exceptions and technicalities over the months. Chiefly, I wish I had made a second table of kill modeling not focused on the "firing squad" scenario, but instead covering the "fighting for your life in the early game" situation. Damn, there have been a number of good games lately. They seem to come in rushes. --[[User:MikeTheRed\|MikeTheRed]] 00:08, 6 July 2007 (PDT)

	~~====Fire and Gaining Experience====~~
	~~Has anyone tested how fire affects experience? Keeping in mind [[Incendiary]] rockets (90IN) and Auto cannon rounds (48IN) Specifically I want to know if:~~
	* Does Incendiary direct dmg increase [[experience]] if the alien does NOT catch fire?
	* Does Incendiary spash dmg increase [[experience]] if the alien does NOT catch fire?
	* Does an alien who caught fire give [[experience]] to the solider the round after?
	* Does an alien '''in a fire''' (but not '''on''' fire) give [[experience]] to the soldier the round after if he takes damage?
	* Does an alien '''in a fire''' (but not '''on''' fire) give [[experience]] to the soldier the round after if he DOES NOT take damage?
	* Does a 4 square alien count as 4 hits if fire is on all 4 squares?
	* How does this all interact with the [[Known_Bugs#Funky_Fire\|fire hurts all bug]]?

	~~Depending on how this works out, it may mean that all your hard work is for moot. :-(~~

	~~If "yes" to all the above questions, obviously the best way to skill up your squad is with an [[Auto Cannon]] using [[Incendiary]] rounds.--[[User:Brunpal\|Brunpal]] 10:00, 1 August 2008 (PDT)~~

Brunpal: Fire and Gaining Experience

2008-08-01T17:00:51Z

Fire and Gaining Experience

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:00, 1 August 2008
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	I've learned a lot of exceptions and technicalities over the months. Chiefly, I wish I had made a second table of kill modeling not focused on the "firing squad" scenario, but instead covering the "fighting for your life in the early game" situation. Damn, there have been a number of good games lately. They seem to come in rushes. --[[User:MikeTheRed\|MikeTheRed]] 00:08, 6 July 2007 (PDT)		I've learned a lot of exceptions and technicalities over the months. Chiefly, I wish I had made a second table of kill modeling not focused on the "firing squad" scenario, but instead covering the "fighting for your life in the early game" situation. Damn, there have been a number of good games lately. They seem to come in rushes. --[[User:MikeTheRed\|MikeTheRed]] 00:08, 6 July 2007 (PDT)

			====Fire and Gaining Experience====
			Has anyone tested how fire affects experience? Keeping in mind [[Incendiary]] rockets (90IN) and Auto cannon rounds (48IN) Specifically I want to know if:
			* Does Incendiary direct dmg increase [[experience]] if the alien does NOT catch fire?
			* Does Incendiary spash dmg increase [[experience]] if the alien does NOT catch fire?
			* Does an alien who caught fire give [[experience]] to the solider the round after?
			* Does an alien '''in a fire''' (but not '''on''' fire) give [[experience]] to the soldier the round after if he takes damage?
			* Does an alien '''in a fire''' (but not '''on''' fire) give [[experience]] to the soldier the round after if he DOES NOT take damage?
			* Does a 4 square alien count as 4 hits if fire is on all 4 squares?
			* How does this all interact with the [[Known_Bugs#Funky_Fire\|fire hurts all bug]]?

			Depending on how this works out, it may mean that all your hard work is for moot. :-(

			If "yes" to all the above questions, obviously the best way to skill up your squad is with an [[Auto Cannon]] using [[Incendiary]] rounds.--[[User:Brunpal\|Brunpal]] 10:00, 1 August 2008 (PDT)

MikeTheRed at 07:08, 6 July 2007

2007-07-06T07:08:23Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:08, 6 July 2007
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	I should also mention that the tables given in the article page are for Experienced-Superhuman skill levels only and do not apply to Beginner where armor values are 1/2 the core. Edit: nevermind, didn't read far enough down in the table. --[[User:Zombie\|Zombie]] 09:06, 5 July 2007 (PDT)		I should also mention that the tables given in the article page are for Experienced-Superhuman skill levels only and do not apply to Beginner where armor values are 1/2 the core. Edit: nevermind, didn't read far enough down in the table. --[[User:Zombie\|Zombie]] 09:06, 5 July 2007 (PDT)

			----

			I've learned a lot of exceptions and technicalities over the months. Chiefly, I wish I had made a second table of kill modeling not focused on the "firing squad" scenario, but instead covering the "fighting for your life in the early game" situation. Damn, there have been a number of good games lately. They seem to come in rushes. --[[User:MikeTheRed\|MikeTheRed]] 00:08, 6 July 2007 (PDT)

Zombie: Whoops, old man's eyes aren't reading correctly these days.

2007-07-05T16:23:57Z

Whoops, old man's eyes aren't reading correctly these days.

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:23, 5 July 2007
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	Technically, you are correct. The weapons cannot be removed in-game. They can't be removed via editing the executable either. However, you could edit the Sectopod's/Cyberdisc's weapon accuracy in the executable down to 0% for all the shot types (which I think removes the shot type from the weapon menu). Then make the weapon damage 0. Result is a perfectly harmless creature, well, except for the Cyberdisc which has that nasty auto-destruct feature. And of course, this is via modding which plays no role in kill modeling, but it may allow you to test the creatures out without fear of retribution. :)		Technically, you are correct. The weapons cannot be removed in-game. They can't be removed via editing the executable either. However, you could edit the Sectopod's/Cyberdisc's weapon accuracy in the executable down to 0% for all the shot types (which I think removes the shot type from the weapon menu). Then make the weapon damage 0. Result is a perfectly harmless creature, well, except for the Cyberdisc which has that nasty auto-destruct feature. And of course, this is via modding which plays no role in kill modeling, but it may allow you to test the creatures out without fear of retribution. :)

	I should also mention that the tables given in the article page are for Experienced-Superhuman skill levels only and do not apply to Beginner where armor values are 1/2 the core. --[[User:Zombie\|Zombie]] 09:06, 5 July 2007 (PDT)		I should also mention that the tables given in the article page are for Experienced-Superhuman skill levels only and do not apply to Beginner where armor values are 1/2 the core. Edit: nevermind, didn't read far enough down in the table. --[[User:Zombie\|Zombie]] 09:06, 5 July 2007 (PDT)