Talk:Gameplay Mechanics (EU2012) - Revision history

Binkyuk: /* Homage to Dark Heresy? */

2013-08-23T12:57:24Z

Homage to Dark Heresy?

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:57, 23 August 2013
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	* Reaction Actions, of which one can normally be done per turn, mostly involving actions that react to enemy ones: dodging, parrying, counterattacking, etc. Some supplements give options for reacting multiple times or moving somewhere else out of turn.		* Reaction Actions, of which one can normally be done per turn, mostly involving actions that react to enemy ones: dodging, parrying, counterattacking, etc. Some supplements give options for reacting multiple times or moving somewhere else out of turn.
	I wonder, was it an intentional homage or a complete coincidence that XCOM's devs used the almost exactly same system? Maybe they chose it consciously due to how easy it is to memorize?--[[User:Amitakartok\|amitakartok]] 12:15, 22 August 2013 (EDT)		I wonder, was it an intentional homage or a complete coincidence that XCOM's devs used the almost exactly same system? Maybe they chose it consciously due to how easy it is to memorize?--[[User:Amitakartok\|amitakartok]] 12:15, 22 August 2013 (EDT)
			:Eh, there have been a lot of turn based game systems based on actions, full round actions, free actions etc - D&D probably being the best example. I don't think you can point to any one and say "xcom is based on that". If anything 1994 xcom was unusual for being a turn based game ''not'' based on discrete actions, and using a large fluid pool of time points instead. [[User:Binkyuk\|Binkyuk]] 08:57, 23 August 2013 (EDT)

Amitakartok: /* Homage to Dark Heresy? */ new section

2013-08-22T16:15:44Z

Homage to Dark Heresy?: new section

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	::In any case, an article on that would certainly be good to have, though it'd probably take a fair bit of effort to get it accurate. - <span style="font-size:xx-small"> [[User:Bomb_Bloke\|Bomb Bloke]] ([[User_talk:Bomb_Bloke\|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Bomb_Bloke\|Contribs]])</span> 08:27, 27 January 2013 (EST)		::In any case, an article on that would certainly be good to have, though it'd probably take a fair bit of effort to get it accurate. - <span style="font-size:xx-small"> [[User:Bomb_Bloke\|Bomb Bloke]] ([[User_talk:Bomb_Bloke\|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Bomb_Bloke\|Contribs]])</span> 08:27, 27 January 2013 (EST)

			== Homage to Dark Heresy? ==

			The combat system used for this game heavily reminds me of the one in the ''Dark Heresy'' tabletop RPG (of Warhammer 40K fame). In that one, actions are divided between:
			* Full Actions that consume the whole turn, no questions asked and no exceptions made. XCOM example: Heavy's rocket.
			* Half Actions, of which two can be done in one turn but they must be different, unlike XCOM where short-range movement is always repeatable. Unlike XCOM, there is no Half Action that immediately ends a turn no matter when it's used so it is allowed to fire THEN move but it is not allowed to attack twice in a row.
			* Reaction Actions, of which one can normally be done per turn, mostly involving actions that react to enemy ones: dodging, parrying, counterattacking, etc. Some supplements give options for reacting multiple times or moving somewhere else out of turn.
			I wonder, was it an intentional homage or a complete coincidence that XCOM's devs used the almost exactly same system? Maybe they chose it consciously due to how easy it is to memorize?--[[User:Amitakartok\|amitakartok]] 12:15, 22 August 2013 (EDT)

Bomb Bloke: /* Restructuring */

2013-01-27T13:27:52Z

Restructuring

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:27, 27 January 2013
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	- <span style="font-size:xx-small"> [[User:Bomb_Bloke\|Bomb Bloke]] ([[User_talk:Bomb_Bloke\|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Bomb_Bloke\|Contribs]])</span> 02:16, 27 January 2013 (EST)		- <span style="font-size:xx-small"> [[User:Bomb_Bloke\|Bomb Bloke]] ([[User_talk:Bomb_Bloke\|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Bomb_Bloke\|Contribs]])</span> 02:16, 27 January 2013 (EST)
	:I vote 'aye'. Your ideas sound good (and I was kinda hoping one of the 'testing' contributors would pick this topic). I also think Scouting name should be dropped it should be more about Line of Sight. :) ;) [[User:Hobbes\|Hobbes]] 07:06, 27 January 2013 (EST)		:I vote 'aye'. Your ideas sound good (and I was kinda hoping one of the 'testing' contributors would pick this topic). I also think Scouting name should be dropped it should be more about Line of Sight. :) ;) [[User:Hobbes\|Hobbes]] 07:06, 27 January 2013 (EST)

			::I think an article talking about scouting tactics might have a place here, but indeed, it doesn't really work as a "game mechanic" (... the first thing you learn when sending anyone ahead of the group is "don't do that", but even THAT merits mention...). Or maybe it could fit in with something about the alien "activation" system. Dunno.

			::Line of sight is tricky. Difficult enough to work out intended behaviour, in that there's plenty of buggy shots, and plenty of "weird" looking shots that are still probably working within the parameters of what the devs were aiming for. I suspect something akin to the odd [[LOFTEMPS.DAT#Diagonal_Processing\|diagonal LOF issues in the original]] might've crept in (in fact, there are enough silly, obvious bugs that ''happen'' to be in the first game that I have to wonder how many of them aren't on purpose).

			::In any case, an article on that would certainly be good to have, though it'd probably take a fair bit of effort to get it accurate. - <span style="font-size:xx-small"> [[User:Bomb_Bloke\|Bomb Bloke]] ([[User_talk:Bomb_Bloke\|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Bomb_Bloke\|Contribs]])</span> 08:27, 27 January 2013 (EST)

Hobbes: /* Restructuring */

2013-01-27T12:08:51Z

Restructuring

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:08, 27 January 2013
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	- <span style="font-size:xx-small"> [[User:Bomb_Bloke\|Bomb Bloke]] ([[User_talk:Bomb_Bloke\|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Bomb_Bloke\|Contribs]])</span> 02:16, 27 January 2013 (EST)		- <span style="font-size:xx-small"> [[User:Bomb_Bloke\|Bomb Bloke]] ([[User_talk:Bomb_Bloke\|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Bomb_Bloke\|Contribs]])</span> 02:16, 27 January 2013 (EST)
	:I vote 'aye'. Your ideas sound good (and I was kinda hoping one of the 'testing' contributors would pick this topic) :) ;) [[User:Hobbes\|Hobbes]] 07:06, 27 January 2013 (EST)		:I vote 'aye'. Your ideas sound good (and I was kinda hoping one of the 'testing' contributors would pick this topic). I also think Scouting name should be dropped it should be more about Line of Sight. :) ;) [[User:Hobbes\|Hobbes]] 07:06, 27 January 2013 (EST)

Hobbes: /* Restructuring */

2013-01-27T12:06:57Z

Restructuring

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:06, 27 January 2013
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	- <span style="font-size:xx-small"> [[User:Bomb_Bloke\|Bomb Bloke]] ([[User_talk:Bomb_Bloke\|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Bomb_Bloke\|Contribs]])</span> 02:16, 27 January 2013 (EST)		- <span style="font-size:xx-small"> [[User:Bomb_Bloke\|Bomb Bloke]] ([[User_talk:Bomb_Bloke\|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Bomb_Bloke\|Contribs]])</span> 02:16, 27 January 2013 (EST)
			:I vote 'aye'. Your ideas sound good (and I was kinda hoping one of the 'testing' contributors would pick this topic) :) ;) [[User:Hobbes\|Hobbes]] 07:06, 27 January 2013 (EST)

Bomb Bloke at 07:16, 27 January 2013

2013-01-27T07:16:26Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:16, 27 January 2013
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	Current information seems incorrect.		Current information seems incorrect.
	:That's their opinion but they offer no evidence whatsoever. What I'll say is that to me the best evidence for the aliens also hearing your noise is when there's no active aliens and you make an action that emits a sound (kicking doors, breaking windows, etc.) and right afterwards one of your soldiers also hears something back in reply. I've also had plenty of situations where the aliens were waiting on overwatch right by the backdoor of the building that I was hoping to use to outflank them. [[User:Hobbes\|Hobbes]] 15:55, 18 December 2012 (EST)		:That's their opinion but they offer no evidence whatsoever. What I'll say is that to me the best evidence for the aliens also hearing your noise is when there's no active aliens and you make an action that emits a sound (kicking doors, breaking windows, etc.) and right afterwards one of your soldiers also hears something back in reply. I've also had plenty of situations where the aliens were waiting on overwatch right by the backdoor of the building that I was hoping to use to outflank them. [[User:Hobbes\|Hobbes]] 15:55, 18 December 2012 (EST)

			== Restructuring ==
			Further to [[Talk:Defense (EU2012)\|this conversation]], I wanna re-organise things a bit around this section.

			Putting aside the topics that should be moved off this main "gameplay mechanics" article to separate sub-pages (once someone gets around to writing up some expanded content for them), it strikes me that [[Attack_(EU2012)\|attack]] and [[Defense_(EU2012)\|defence]] would best be merged into one "chance to hit" article. They otherwise simply approach the same subject - whether a bullet will hit - from two different angles. I'm planning to talk about critical hit chances on the same page.

			I also think that [[Flanking_(EU2012)\|flanking]] would likewise best be merged into [[Cover_(EU2012)\|cover]], because again, explaining how to ''be'' in cover can't really be done without explaining how ''not'' to be.

			[[Critical Wounds (EU2012)\|Critical Wounds]] should indeed have it's own page, but I think the title is a little too ambiguous and close to "Critical Hits" for my liking. I'm thinking perhaps a re-name to "Wounded Units", which could cover not only unit stabilisation and death, but penalties for taking damage and talk about after-battle recovery time.

			Any thoughts for/against?

			- <span style="font-size:xx-small"> [[User:Bomb_Bloke\|Bomb Bloke]] ([[User_talk:Bomb_Bloke\|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Bomb_Bloke\|Contribs]])</span> 02:16, 27 January 2013 (EST)

Hobbes: /* Sound */

2012-12-18T20:55:55Z

Sound

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:55, 18 December 2012
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	http://gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/96098/dashing-vs-non-dashing-and-stalking-in-general		http://gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/96098/dashing-vs-non-dashing-and-stalking-in-general
	Current information seems incorrect.		Current information seems incorrect.
			:That's their opinion but they offer no evidence whatsoever. What I'll say is that to me the best evidence for the aliens also hearing your noise is when there's no active aliens and you make an action that emits a sound (kicking doors, breaking windows, etc.) and right afterwards one of your soldiers also hears something back in reply. I've also had plenty of situations where the aliens were waiting on overwatch right by the backdoor of the building that I was hoping to use to outflank them. [[User:Hobbes\|Hobbes]] 15:55, 18 December 2012 (EST)

Mbova: Sound issue

2012-12-18T16:12:11Z

Sound issue

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:12, 18 December 2012
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	Does the game distinguish panic (drop weapons and freeze or run away) from berserk (start shooting wildly) as the 1993 game does? If so, the wording in the Morale section should be clarified a little. [[User:Spike\|Spike]] 06:24, 19 October 2012 (EDT)		Does the game distinguish panic (drop weapons and freeze or run away) from berserk (start shooting wildly) as the 1993 game does? If so, the wording in the Morale section should be clarified a little. [[User:Spike\|Spike]] 06:24, 19 October 2012 (EDT)
	:Looks the same to me. Soldier panics, it can do a lot of bad things like shooting at aliens or even your teammates [[User:Hobbes\|Hobbes]] 07:44, 21 October 2012 (EDT)		:Looks the same to me. Soldier panics, it can do a lot of bad things like shooting at aliens or even your teammates [[User:Hobbes\|Hobbes]] 07:44, 21 October 2012 (EDT)

			== Sound ==
			According to this community sound is just to help find hidden aliens faster and does not account for aliens finding the player
			http://gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/96098/dashing-vs-non-dashing-and-stalking-in-general
			Current information seems incorrect.

Hobbes: moved Talk:Gameplay Mechanics (EU2013) to Talk:Gameplay Mechanics (EU2012) over redirect: revert

2012-12-16T21:56:36Z

moved Talk:Gameplay Mechanics (EU2013) to Talk:Gameplay Mechanics (EU2012) over redirect: revert

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:56, 16 December 2012
(No difference)

Hobbes: moved Talk:Gameplay Mechanics (EU2012) to Talk:Gameplay Mechanics (EU2013)

2012-12-16T21:55:52Z

moved Talk:Gameplay Mechanics (EU2012) to Talk:Gameplay Mechanics (EU2013)

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:55, 16 December 2012
(No difference)

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:27, 27 January 2013
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	- <span style="font-size:xx-small"> [[User:Bomb_Bloke\|Bomb Bloke]] ([[User_talk:Bomb_Bloke\|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Bomb_Bloke\|Contribs]])</span> 02:16, 27 January 2013 (EST)		- <span style="font-size:xx-small"> [[User:Bomb_Bloke\|Bomb Bloke]] ([[User_talk:Bomb_Bloke\|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Bomb_Bloke\|Contribs]])</span> 02:16, 27 January 2013 (EST)
	:I vote 'aye'. Your ideas sound good (and I was kinda hoping one of the 'testing' contributors would pick this topic). I also think Scouting name should be dropped it should be more about Line of Sight. :) ;) [[User:Hobbes\|Hobbes]] 07:06, 27 January 2013 (EST)		:I vote 'aye'. Your ideas sound good (and I was kinda hoping one of the 'testing' contributors would pick this topic). I also think Scouting name should be dropped it should be more about Line of Sight. :) ;) [[User:Hobbes\|Hobbes]] 07:06, 27 January 2013 (EST)

			::I think an article talking about scouting tactics might have a place here, but indeed, it doesn't really work as a "game mechanic" (... the first thing you learn when sending anyone ahead of the group is "don't do that", but even THAT merits mention...). Or maybe it could fit in with something about the alien "activation" system. Dunno.

			::Line of sight is tricky. Difficult enough to work out intended behaviour, in that there's plenty of buggy shots, and plenty of "weird" looking shots that are still probably working within the parameters of what the devs were aiming for. I suspect something akin to the odd [[LOFTEMPS.DAT#Diagonal_Processing\|diagonal LOF issues in the original]] might've crept in (in fact, there are enough silly, obvious bugs that ''happen'' to be in the first game that I have to wonder how many of them aren't on purpose).

			::In any case, an article on that would certainly be good to have, though it'd probably take a fair bit of effort to get it accurate. - <span style="font-size:xx-small"> [[User:Bomb_Bloke\|Bomb Bloke]] ([[User_talk:Bomb_Bloke\|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Bomb_Bloke\|Contribs]])</span> 08:27, 27 January 2013 (EST)