Talk:Experience Training - Revision history

NKF: Response

2009-05-30T05:08:51Z

Response

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	-JonathanLB		-JonathanLB

			: Well, it was obtained from observations of the save game file before and after shooting an alien that is under mind control, with a soldier who had not taken a single shot throughout the battle. All hits to a mind controlled unit did not increase the soldier's hit counter. Without improvements to the hit counter, you won't get any firing accuracy increases. Increases to your secondary stats would've been obtained through the mind control and other primary actions that are tracked by the game. -[[User:NKF\|NKF]] 01:08, 30 May 2009 (EDT)

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JonathanLB at 01:38, 30 May 2009

2009-05-30T01:38:59Z

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			It's implied here that you don't gain experience for shooting aliens under your control. That's just incorrect. I always shoot aliens who are under my control. In fact that's the only way I give new soldiers firing accuracy training, to shoot already-controlled aliens. It works great! So not sure where that misinformation came from...

			-JonathanLB

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	I didn't know how to meaningfully merge the top-to-bottom training guide I wrote with the stub page that this article started out as, so I moved the original page to the discussion page here. I hope other editors of the UFOPaedia do not take offense.		I didn't know how to meaningfully merge the top-to-bottom training guide I wrote with the stub page that this article started out as, so I moved the original page to the discussion page here. I hope other editors of the UFOPaedia do not take offense.

Jasonred at 09:25, 15 March 2009

2009-03-15T09:25:03Z

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	- [[User:NKF\|NKF]] 01:24, 2 August 2008 (PDT)		- [[User:NKF\|NKF]] 01:24, 2 August 2008 (PDT)

			Makes sense... incendiary is such an odd kettle of fish, it doesn't count as a hit in terms of experience, reaction triggers... basically acts very oddly... [[User:Jasonred\|Jasonred]] 05:25, 15 March 2009 (EDT)

Zombie: /* Fire and Gaining Experience */ Relinking.

2008-12-18T00:00:11Z

Fire and Gaining Experience: Relinking.

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	* How does this all interact with the [[Known_Bugs#Funky_Fire\|fire hurts all bug]]?		* How does this all interact with the [[Known_Bugs#Funky_Fire\|fire hurts all bug]]?

	''Depending on how this works out, it may mean that the best way to skill up your squad is with an [[Auto Cannon]] using [[Incendiary]] rounds.''--[[User:Brunpal\|Brunpal]] 09:53, 1 August 2008 (PDT)		''Depending on how this works out, it may mean that the best way to skill up your squad is with an [[Auto-Cannon]] using [[Incendiary]] rounds.''--[[User:Brunpal\|Brunpal]] 09:53, 1 August 2008 (PDT)

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NKF at 08:24, 2 August 2008

2008-08-02T08:24:14Z

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	- [[User:Bomb Bloke\|Bomb Bloke]] 21:35, 1 August 2008 (PDT)		- [[User:Bomb Bloke\|Bomb Bloke]] 21:35, 1 August 2008 (PDT)


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			The results are already out there, but I had run a practical exercise anyway. I fired up TFTD and started a brand new game. Bought only Phosphor rounds and made sure I had 8 gas cannons. At the start of the first mission, I saved and edited unitref.dat to give the first soldier all-round 255 armour - effectively making him invulnerable to enemy attack. Perfect for testing - although I had to restart my test as I corrupted my results with one reaction shot (my test was to see if any promotions were given, then to check if any stats have increased). I have got to say that TFTD has REALLY nerfed incendiary effects for underwater maps. Fire burns for about one or two turns before fizzing out. Had to repeat this whole test all over again on a land map to get better results.

			In any case, my findings are that the Kill counter does increase with an IN induced kill to the person that performed the killing blow, but no experience is awarded. An alien dying from fire doesn't increase the kill counter nor is experience awarded (actually, one test did increase the kill counter, but that was the odd one out).

			- [[User:NKF\|NKF]] 01:24, 2 August 2008 (PDT)

Bomb Bloke: /* Fire and Gaining Experience */

2008-08-02T04:35:58Z

Fire and Gaining Experience

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	Sucks if IN doesn't count at all. I had visions of getting personal armor, then throwing 4 aliens into the back of my ship and firing one at point blank auto shot for a full set of xp actions. I'm looking for a way to train in early game. Generally I don't do much with xp training with psi. Soon as I have psi ''capable'' squad (vs godlike) I head to mars and end the game.--[[User:Brunpal\|Brunpal]] 21:03, 1 August 2008 (PDT)		Sucks if IN doesn't count at all. I had visions of getting personal armor, then throwing 4 aliens into the back of my ship and firing one at point blank auto shot for a full set of xp actions. I'm looking for a way to train in early game. Generally I don't do much with xp training with psi. Soon as I have psi ''capable'' squad (vs godlike) I head to mars and end the game.--[[User:Brunpal\|Brunpal]] 21:03, 1 August 2008 (PDT)

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			Experience works like this: Whenever you perform certain actions, certain counters are incremented. At the end of combat, the vitalstatistics relevant to those counters may then be incremented.

			When you fire a weapon, if you hit a unit with it the "hit" counter goes up. As IN does not increase this counter (or any of the other counters, except maybe kills which doesn't increase skills anyway), it won't cause you to gain in any stats.

			Hence why you can't use the kill counter as a way of checking to see if a soldier will gain "experience". You HAVE to check the action counters themselves. The game doesn't always do things in a predictable/logical manner, so when doing research it doesn't pay to assume.

			So in case I wasn't clear before, shots made with IN do not count towards any form of "experience".

			- [[User:Bomb Bloke\|Bomb Bloke]] 21:35, 1 August 2008 (PDT)

Brunpal at 04:03, 2 August 2008

2008-08-02T04:03:30Z

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	I'm not too concerned if the kill counter goes up or not, just if the hit counts towards xp. I used the example of a direct hit that results in a kill because a kill is the easiest way to check that damage was done, (vs a hit that did zero damage). It's also the most conservative test; if ''that'' doesn't count for xp, then it stands to reason that no other form of IN damage counts for xp. Sucks if IN doesn't count at all.--[[User:Brunpal\|Brunpal]] 20:28, 1 August 2008 (PDT)		I'm not too concerned if the kill counter goes up or not, just if the hit counts towards xp. I used the example of a direct hit that results in a kill because a kill is the easiest way to check that damage was done, (vs a hit that did zero damage). It's also the most conservative test; if ''that'' doesn't count for xp, then it stands to reason that no other form of IN damage counts for xp.

			There is also some discussion at [[Talk:Incendiary]] about this issue.

			Sucks if IN doesn't count at all. I had visions of getting personal armor, then throwing 4 aliens into the back of my ship and firing one at point blank auto shot for a full set of xp actions. I'm looking for a way to train in early game. Generally I don't do much with xp training with psi. Soon as I have psi ''capable'' squad (vs godlike) I head to mars and end the game.--[[User:Brunpal\|Brunpal]] 21:03, 1 August 2008 (PDT)

Brunpal: /* Fire and Gaining Experience */ kill = a hit that is known to do damage.

2008-08-02T03:28:12Z

Fire and Gaining Experience: kill = a hit that is known to do damage.

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	- [[User:Bomb Bloke\|Bomb Bloke]] 18:43, 1 August 2008 (PDT)		- [[User:Bomb Bloke\|Bomb Bloke]] 18:43, 1 August 2008 (PDT)

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			I'm not too concerned if the kill counter goes up or not, just if the hit counts towards xp. I used the example of a direct hit that results in a kill because a kill is the easiest way to check that damage was done, (vs a hit that did zero damage). It's also the most conservative test; if ''that'' doesn't count for xp, then it stands to reason that no other form of IN damage counts for xp. Sucks if IN doesn't count at all.--[[User:Brunpal\|Brunpal]] 20:28, 1 August 2008 (PDT)

Bomb Bloke: /* Fire and Gaining Experience */

2008-08-02T01:43:04Z

Fire and Gaining Experience

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 ''Depending on how this works out, it may mean that the best way to skill up your squad is with an [[Auto Cannon]] using [[Incendiary]] rounds.''--[[User:Brunpal|Brunpal]] 09:53, 1 August 2008 (PDT)
-: Unfortunately no to all the above. From the damage tests that were done extensively by our regulars that did most of the work on the damage/experience pages, incendiary damage does not increase your experience counters at all. - [[User:NKF|NKF]] 13:49, 1 August 2008 (PDT)
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-:::Given the amount of damage inflicted by a hit from an incendiary round, a kill is unlikely.  Nevertheless, IIRC, Firing Accuracy is incremented on an actual hit of the enemy.  [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 16:02, 1 August 2008 (PDT)
+Unfortunately no to all the above. From the damage tests that were done extensively by our regulars that did most of the work on the damage/experience pages, incendiary damage does not increase your experience counters at all. - [[User:NKF|NKF]] 13:49, 1 August 2008 (PDT)
-:: Actually, after skimming through the pages on training experience, I can't see mention of whether incendiary increments 'hit' experience or otherwise, so I'm left a bit unsure at this point. What I vaguely remember is that incendiary (standing in flames, on fire, etc) won't increment the kill counter - but then again the kill counter is just that, a counter. It has no control over your stat increases. Oh well, nothing a few practical experiments won't fix. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 16:23, 1 August 2008 (PDT)
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-:::From a logical standpoint, it should, given that every other time your soldiers successfully shoot an alien, regardless of whether they do any damage, they get firing accuracy experience incremented.  But tests are the way to go, yes.  [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 18:25, 1 August 2008 (PDT)
+Even a direct hit that kills the target? That seems odd. If that's the case then it should be noted on the various XP pages that it's totally impossible to gain XP with [[incendiary]] rounds loaded. It's a pretty big exception.--[[User:Brunpal|Brunpal]] 15:54, 1 August 2008 (PDT)

Arrow Quivershaft: Logic says it should, but tests are a good idea.

2008-08-02T01:25:39Z

Logic says it should, but tests are a good idea.

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	:: Actually, after skimming through the pages on training experience, I can't see mention of whether incendiary increments 'hit' experience or otherwise, so I'm left a bit unsure at this point. What I vaguely remember is that incendiary (standing in flames, on fire, etc) won't increment the kill counter - but then again the kill counter is just that, a counter. It has no control over your stat increases. Oh well, nothing a few practical experiments won't fix. -[[User:NKF\|NKF]] 16:23, 1 August 2008 (PDT)		:: Actually, after skimming through the pages on training experience, I can't see mention of whether incendiary increments 'hit' experience or otherwise, so I'm left a bit unsure at this point. What I vaguely remember is that incendiary (standing in flames, on fire, etc) won't increment the kill counter - but then again the kill counter is just that, a counter. It has no control over your stat increases. Oh well, nothing a few practical experiments won't fix. -[[User:NKF\|NKF]] 16:23, 1 August 2008 (PDT)

			:::From a logical standpoint, it should, given that every other time your soldiers successfully shoot an alien, regardless of whether they do any damage, they get firing accuracy experience incremented. But tests are the way to go, yes. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft\|Arrow Quivershaft]] 18:25, 1 August 2008 (PDT)