Talk:Difficulty (EU2012) - Revision history

Parogen: /* "shackled" and "unshackled" AI */

2025-04-07T10:06:48Z

"shackled" and "unshackled" AI

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:06, 7 April 2025
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	== "shackled" and "unshackled" AI ==		== "shackled" and "unshackled" AI ==

	So the consensus seems to be that there is "shackled" and "unshackled" AI, where Easy and Normal is shackled and Classic and Impossible is unshackled. I have many hours of Impossible Ironman on Enemy Unknown and do not have many hours in other difficulties or in Enemy Within. But now playing EW on Classic, I just had a Sectoid flank my soldier and instead of firing, it Overwatched. In all my experience, this would not happen on Impossible EU. Is it possible it's not as binary as shackled (Easy and Normal) vs unshackled (Classic and Impossible)? Is Classic still "shackled" in some sense? Or is it an Enemy Within thing? Because I do see changes in AI (more Overwatching instead of shooting, more running into Overwatches too) but since I don't have hours on Classic in Unknown, I can't tell if it's a Classic thing or if it's an EW thing. I have also watched a lot of people play long war and always assumed long war messed with the AI. Now I'm not sure which is the culprit.		So the consensus seems to be that there is "shackled" and "unshackled" AI, where Easy and Normal is shackled and Classic and Impossible is unshackled. I have many hours of Impossible Ironman on Enemy Unknown and do not have many hours in other difficulties or in Enemy Within. But now playing EW on Classic, I just had a Sectoid flank my soldier and instead of firing, it Overwatched. In all my experience, this would not happen on Impossible EU. Is it possible it's not as binary as shackled (Easy and Normal) vs unshackled (Classic and Impossible)? Is Classic still "shackled" in some sense? Or is it an Enemy Within thing? Because I do see changes in AI (more Overwatching instead of shooting, more running into Overwatches too) but since I don't have hours on Classic in Unknown, I can't tell if it's a Classic thing or if it's an EW thing. I have also watched a lot of people play long war and always assumed long war messed with the AI. Now I'm not sure which is the culprit. [[User:Parogen\|Parogen]] ([[User talk:Parogen\|talk]])

			:After some time, my impression is that it's an EW thing. EU C&I > EW I > EW C , if there is a difference between EW I and C. In some sense, EW AI running into Overwatches could have been a good thing, as an adjustment to the way EU AI refuses to move sometimes. But it's not actually sophisticated and runs Overwatches even when it is in LoS, when it can shoot instead of moving, making suboptimal plays like Overwatch 'trapping' seem viable. So in my view, EW is 'shackled' a bit in comparison to EU. [[User:Parogen\|Parogen]] ([[User talk:Parogen\|talk]]) 10:06, 7 April 2025 (UTC)

Parogen: /* "shackled" and "unshackled" AI */ new section

2025-04-05T17:59:28Z

"shackled" and "unshackled" AI: new section

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:59, 5 April 2025
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	I checked income on Impossible at start (asap) - it's +175 (+230 -55). And 180 of 230 is USA's funds. 230-180=50 base income on impossible. But we start at 275 in NA, it's +45 from month income. Looks like it was +100 starting bonus, but starting tasks for 55 and 45 we have.		I checked income on Impossible at start (asap) - it's +175 (+230 -55). And 180 of 230 is USA's funds. 230-180=50 base income on impossible. But we start at 275 in NA, it's +45 from month income. Looks like it was +100 starting bonus, but starting tasks for 55 and 45 we have.

			== "shackled" and "unshackled" AI ==

			So the consensus seems to be that there is "shackled" and "unshackled" AI, where Easy and Normal is shackled and Classic and Impossible is unshackled. I have many hours of Impossible Ironman on Enemy Unknown and do not have many hours in other difficulties or in Enemy Within. But now playing EW on Classic, I just had a Sectoid flank my soldier and instead of firing, it Overwatched. In all my experience, this would not happen on Impossible EU. Is it possible it's not as binary as shackled (Easy and Normal) vs unshackled (Classic and Impossible)? Is Classic still "shackled" in some sense? Or is it an Enemy Within thing? Because I do see changes in AI (more Overwatching instead of shooting, more running into Overwatches too) but since I don't have hours on Classic in Unknown, I can't tell if it's a Classic thing or if it's an EW thing. I have also watched a lot of people play long war and always assumed long war messed with the AI. Now I'm not sure which is the culprit.

Nite at 14:39, 2 November 2012

2012-11-02T14:39:31Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:39, 2 November 2012
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	\| §175 \|\| §175 \|\| §100 \|\| §75		\| §175 \|\| §175 \|\| §100 \|\| §75
	\|}		\|}


			I checked income on Impossible at start (asap) - it's +175 (+230 -55). And 180 of 230 is USA's funds. 230-180=50 base income on impossible. But we start at 275 in NA, it's +45 from month income. Looks like it was +100 starting bonus, but starting tasks for 55 and 45 we have.

Ditto51 at 10:38, 31 October 2012

2012-10-31T10:38:34Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:38, 31 October 2012
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	\| §175 \|\| §175 \|\| §100 \|\| §75		\| §175 \|\| §175 \|\| §100 \|\| §75
	\|}		\|}

	~~== ironman mode ==~~

	~~Should we add on something about ironman mode here as it is basically a sub-difficulty level~~

Ditto51: /* ironman mode */ new section

2012-10-30T23:26:52Z

ironman mode: new section

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:26, 30 October 2012
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	\| §175 \|\| §175 \|\| §100 \|\| §75		\| §175 \|\| §175 \|\| §100 \|\| §75
	\|}		\|}

			== ironman mode ==

			Should we add on something about ironman mode here as it is basically a sub-difficulty level

Nite at 15:30, 22 October 2012

2012-10-22T15:30:26Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:30, 22 October 2012
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	You don't understand me. Starting funds on Classic including NA's funds are 300. Yes. But Starting funds excluding NA's funds are 300-180=120. So, begining in Germany means 120+150=270. "Is it right?" - that's the question.		You don't understand me. Starting funds on Classic including NA's funds are 300. Yes. But Starting funds excluding NA's funds are 300-180=120. So, begining in Germany means 120+150=270. "Is it right?" - that's the question.
	--Nite		--Nite

			ALso, there is "Base Funding by Difficulty Level" table http://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Situation_Room_(EU2012) . It says:
			{\| class="wikitable" width="30%"
			\|-
			! Easy !! Normal !! Classic !! Impossible
			\|-
			\| §175 \|\| §175 \|\| §100 \|\| §75
			\|}

Nite at 15:24, 22 October 2012

2012-10-22T15:24:32Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:24, 22 October 2012
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	If starting funds depends on country you choose to start, then it must be equal to X+monthly income of the country you have satellite covered. So, 300 on Classic NA means X=300-180(NA)=120 startings funds. Am I wrong?		If starting funds depends on country you choose to start, then it must be equal to X+monthly income of the country you have satellite covered. So, 300 on Classic NA means X=300-180(NA)=120 startings funds. Am I wrong?
	If that's true, then on Easy starting funds will be 465(on NA)-270(NA on Easy)=195.		If that's true, then on Easy starting funds will be 465(on NA)-270(NA on Easy)=195.
	Nite		--Nite

	Starting funds on Classic for NA are still 300.--[[User:Tacobandit744\|Tacobandit744]] 02:05, 22 October 2012 (EDT)		Starting funds on Classic for NA are still 300.--[[User:Tacobandit744\|Tacobandit744]] 02:05, 22 October 2012 (EDT)

			You don't understand me. Starting funds on Classic including NA's funds are 300. Yes. But Starting funds excluding NA's funds are 300-180=120. So, begining in Germany means 120+150=270. "Is it right?" - that's the question.
			--Nite

Tacobandit744 at 06:05, 22 October 2012

2012-10-22T06:05:00Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 06:05, 22 October 2012
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	If that's true, then on Easy starting funds will be 465(on NA)-270(NA on Easy)=195.		If that's true, then on Easy starting funds will be 465(on NA)-270(NA on Easy)=195.
	Nite		Nite

			Starting funds on Classic for NA are still 300.--[[User:Tacobandit744\|Tacobandit744]] 02:05, 22 October 2012 (EDT)

Nite at 05:02, 22 October 2012

2012-10-22T05:02:50Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:02, 22 October 2012
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	* http://forums.2kgames.com/showthread.php?150076-Differences-in-Difficulties		* http://forums.2kgames.com/showthread.php?150076-Differences-in-Difficulties
	I think also the starting money differs what is not included here. I will add it later today. [[User:Jarcionek\|Jarcionek]] 10:17, 20 October 2012 (EDT)		I think also the starting money differs what is not included here. I will add it later today. [[User:Jarcionek\|Jarcionek]] 10:17, 20 October 2012 (EDT)

			If starting funds depends on country you choose to start, then it must be equal to X+monthly income of the country you have satellite covered. So, 300 on Classic NA means X=300-180(NA)=120 startings funds. Am I wrong?
			If that's true, then on Easy starting funds will be 465(on NA)-270(NA on Easy)=195.
			Nite

Jarcionek: Created page with "Sources: * http://gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/87242/what-are-the-differences-between-normal-and-classic-difficulties * http://forums.2kgames.com/showthread.php?150076-Diff..."

2012-10-20T14:17:51Z

Created page with "Sources: * http://gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/87242/what-are-the-differences-between-normal-and-classic-difficulties * http://forums.2kgames.com/showthread.php?150076-Diff..."

New page

Sources:
* http://gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/87242/what-are-the-differences-between-normal-and-classic-difficulties
* http://forums.2kgames.com/showthread.php?150076-Differences-in-Difficulties
I think also the starting money differs what is not included here. I will add it later today. [[User:Jarcionek|Jarcionek]] 10:17, 20 October 2012 (EDT)