Talk:Damage (Long War) - Revision history

Peddroelm: /* Overhaul */

2015-12-02T12:52:59Z

Overhaul

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:52, 2 December 2015
Line 34:		Line 34:
	:: Thanks for the chat. [[User:DjinnFor\|DjinnFor]] ([[User talk:DjinnFor\|talk]]) 08:43, 15 November 2015 (EST)		:: Thanks for the chat. [[User:DjinnFor\|DjinnFor]] ([[User talk:DjinnFor\|talk]]) 08:43, 15 November 2015 (EST)

	nice job		nice job [[User:peddroelm\|peddroelm]]

Peddroelm: /* Overhaul */

2015-12-02T12:52:12Z

Overhaul

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:52, 2 December 2015
Line 33:		Line 33:
	::* Shredder Rockets ignoring cover and Sapper giving +2 for Alien Grenades were both on the original page. I left them in unchanged.		::* Shredder Rockets ignoring cover and Sapper giving +2 for Alien Grenades were both on the original page. I left them in unchanged.
	:: Thanks for the chat. [[User:DjinnFor\|DjinnFor]] ([[User talk:DjinnFor\|talk]]) 08:43, 15 November 2015 (EST)		:: Thanks for the chat. [[User:DjinnFor\|DjinnFor]] ([[User talk:DjinnFor\|talk]]) 08:43, 15 November 2015 (EST)

			nice job

DjinnFor at 13:43, 15 November 2015

2015-11-15T13:43:00Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:43, 15 November 2015
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	@[[User:Demes\|Demes]] I have reverted your changes to the OW dashing multiplier and Combat Stims pursuant to information in these reddit LW threads [https://www.reddit.com/r/Xcom/comments/2mio9i/lw_overwatch_mechanics/] [https://www.reddit.com/r/Xcom/comments/35so0y/lwhow_overwatch_works/] [https://www.reddit.com/r/Xcom/comments/30hzxt/combat_stims_perk/]. I initially gave you the benefit of the doubt as me misremembering things, but it was bothering me and I decided to follow up on them with some research. It could be that those threads are out of date (or the individuals in question were misinformed at the time of posting) and you know something I don't, in which case I'd be perfectly fine with the edit being reinstated, but for the time being and in lieu of further clarification from you I've switched them back. [[User:DjinnFor\|DjinnFor]] ([[User talk:DjinnFor\|talk]]) 08:14, 13 November 2015 (EST)		@[[User:Demes\|Demes]] I have reverted your changes to the OW dashing multiplier and Combat Stims pursuant to information in these reddit LW threads [https://www.reddit.com/r/Xcom/comments/2mio9i/lw_overwatch_mechanics/] [https://www.reddit.com/r/Xcom/comments/35so0y/lwhow_overwatch_works/] [https://www.reddit.com/r/Xcom/comments/30hzxt/combat_stims_perk/]. I initially gave you the benefit of the doubt as me misremembering things, but it was bothering me and I decided to follow up on them with some research. It could be that those threads are out of date (or the individuals in question were misinformed at the time of posting) and you know something I don't, in which case I'd be perfectly fine with the edit being reinstated, but for the time being and in lieu of further clarification from you I've switched them back. [[User:DjinnFor\|DjinnFor]] ([[User talk:DjinnFor\|talk]]) 08:14, 13 November 2015 (EST)

	@[[User:DjinnFor\|DjinnFor]] The information I changed was based on mostly personal experience and some research. My understanding of the OW dashing multiplier is based on both the DefaultGameCore.ini file and personal experience. If you look at the .ini, under "tactical constants" on line ~1210 and onwards, There's two variables relating to OW. These are "REACTION_PENALTY=0.7f ; Reaction fire % of normal of hit chance." and "DASHING_REACTION_MODIFIER=0.5f ; Reaction fire % of normal hit chance against a dashing unit." From my experience, neither of these applies if the shooter has Opportunist. The Combat Stim mechanic, that one I think I noticed while playing, however it was just a quick observation (Adrenaline Surge seemed to have disappeared, when I healed myself to full), I didn't do any thorough testing. Would probably be for the best to test how it works ingame, shouldnt take long with the help of dev console. The damage reduction part (applies always), which you reverted too, I'm much more certain about, would make sense according to the wording on the wiki equpment page (note the oxford comma) and also isn't addressed in the sources you listed (I didn't notice it at least). However its always good to test it ingame, if you can. Because the exact mechanics are somewhat complex, not really explained anywhere or very clear at all, there is a lot of misinformation in Reddit, Twitch, and sometimes even here, although to a much lesser extent.		: @[[User:DjinnFor\|DjinnFor]] The information I changed was based on mostly personal experience and some research. My understanding of the OW dashing multiplier is based on both the DefaultGameCore.ini file and personal experience. If you look at the .ini, under "tactical constants" on line ~1210 and onwards, There's two variables relating to OW. These are "REACTION_PENALTY=0.7f ; Reaction fire % of normal of hit chance." and "DASHING_REACTION_MODIFIER=0.5f ; Reaction fire % of normal hit chance against a dashing unit." From my experience, neither of these applies if the shooter has Opportunist. The Combat Stim mechanic, that one I think I noticed while playing, however it was just a quick observation (Adrenaline Surge seemed to have disappeared, when I healed myself to full), I didn't do any thorough testing. Would probably be for the best to test how it works ingame, shouldnt take long with the help of dev console. The damage reduction part (applies always), which you reverted too, I'm much more certain about, would make sense according to the wording on the wiki equpment page (note the oxford comma) and also isn't addressed in the sources you listed (I didn't notice it at least). However its always good to test it ingame, if you can. Because the exact mechanics are somewhat complex, not really explained anywhere or very clear at all, there is a lot of misinformation in Reddit, Twitch, and sometimes even here, although to a much lesser extent.

	I usually keep up with what's going on here but I've been a bit busy playing Fallout 4 the past few days. Generally I think I have a fairly accurate understanding of the mechanics of XCOM LW, but I've wrong before, at least once.		: I usually keep up with what's going on here but I've been a bit busy playing Fallout 4 the past few days. Generally I think I have a fairly accurate understanding of the mechanics of XCOM LW, but I've wrong before, at least once.
	I like the rework you did to the page, looks much better now. I didn't check everything on the page so there's probably still something that on my opinion works differently, for example if we believe the dgc.ini, the gauss tech DR reduction is 0.34, not 0.33 ("COUNCIL_FUNDING_MULTIPLIER_EASY=0.34f ; All Gauss-tech weapons nullify this much Damage Reduction"), although a difference of 0.01 DR is completely irrelevant in almost any situation. --[[User:Demes\|Demes]] ([[User talk:Demes\|talk]]) 18:52, 13 November 2015 (EST)		:I like the rework you did to the page, looks much better now. I didn't check everything on the page so there's probably still something that on my opinion works differently, for example if we believe the dgc.ini, the gauss tech DR reduction is 0.34, not 0.33 ("COUNCIL_FUNDING_MULTIPLIER_EASY=0.34f ; All Gauss-tech weapons nullify this much Damage Reduction"), although a difference of 0.01 DR is completely irrelevant in almost any situation. --[[User:Demes\|Demes]] ([[User talk:Demes\|talk]]) 18:52, 13 November 2015 (EST)

	A couple things that I think are wrong:		: A couple things that I think are wrong:

	'''Disoriented (as from e.g. Flashbang) [Effect] : -50 for 2 turns''' I believe Flashbangs only last 1.5 turns (The turn you throw it, the alien turn, your turn). Smoke grenades do last full 2 turns.		: '''Disoriented (as from e.g. Flashbang) [Effect] : -50 for 2 turns''' I believe Flashbangs only last 1.5 turns (The turn you throw it, the alien turn, your turn). Smoke grenades do last full 2 turns.

	'''Acid-covered (as from e.g. Chem Grenade) [Effect]: -20 for 3 turns''' Acid duration is not fixed, its something like 2-4 or 2-5 turns. Equipment page says its 2-4 turns so I would probably go with that but I wouldn't bet my first-born on that.		: '''Acid-covered (as from e.g. Chem Grenade) [Effect]: -20 for 3 turns''' Acid duration is not fixed, its something like 2-4 or 2-5 turns. Equipment page says its 2-4 turns so I would probably go with that but I wouldn't bet my first-born on that.

	And a couple things that may be wrong:		: And a couple things that may be wrong:

	'''Flat Cover DR is applied, if the target is in cover and not flanked, and the weapon is not an AP Grenade or Shredder Rocket''' I'm not sure if Shredder Rockets actually ignore cover DR, even though the targeting is similar to an AP grenade. Should probably be tested		: '''Flat Cover DR is applied, if the target is in cover and not flanked, and the weapon is not an AP Grenade or Shredder Rocket''' I'm not sure if Shredder Rockets actually ignore cover DR, even though the targeting is similar to an AP grenade. Should probably be tested

	'''Sapper [Perk]: +1 for HE & AP, and +2 for Alien Grenades''' Sapper gives +2 to alien nades? This is new information to me, but I'll believe if this really is the case.		: '''Sapper [Perk]: +1 for HE & AP, and +2 for Alien Grenades''' Sapper gives +2 to alien nades? This is new information to me, but I'll believe if this really is the case.
	--[[User:Demes\|Demes]] ([[User talk:Demes\|talk]]) 19:21, 13 November 2015 (EST)		: --[[User:Demes\|Demes]] ([[User talk:Demes\|talk]]) 19:21, 13 November 2015 (EST)
			:: Hey, thanks for the reply. Some of the information on the page is a holdover from the previous version that I just kept in, in lieu of better information. Feel free to C/D and change them at your leisure, someone will probably come around and change them back if they think they know better.
			::* Turns out 0.7*0.7 = 0.49; we may be both right if that rounds to the nearest tenth. The devs may have intended for it to be two 0.7 multipliers, and explained this somewhere on nexusmods or reddit (leading to the kinds of posts I mentioned), but implemented it as combined 0.5 modifier. I'll switch it back.
			::* If you get around to confirming the mechanics of Adrenaline Surge when healing back to full hp, let me know; otherwise I'll post here when I do it.
			::* I'm not 100% sure what you mean when you say "The damage reduction part (applies always), which you reverted too, I'm much more certain about". I checked, and I don't think I reverted anything regarding Combat Stims DR. You may have planned to change something but forgot to. If you're saying the DR from the Combat Stims effect applies regardless of being in cover, that was info from the previous page that I left in.
			::* Gauss DR was an oversight on my part.
			::* I have operated under the assumption that Flashbangs last 2 turns for a while; perhaps they don't, but since I play with perfect information on I think I'd remember an instance where that was not the case.
			::* Acid was an eyeball guesstimate, I'll switch it over to 2-4.
			::* Shredder Rockets ignoring cover and Sapper giving +2 for Alien Grenades were both on the original page. I left them in unchanged.
			:: Thanks for the chat. [[User:DjinnFor\|DjinnFor]] ([[User talk:DjinnFor\|talk]]) 08:43, 15 November 2015 (EST)

Demes at 00:21, 14 November 2015

2015-11-14T00:21:32Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:21, 14 November 2015
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	I usually keep up with what's going on here but I've been a bit busy playing Fallout 4 the past few days. Generally I think I have a fairly accurate understanding of the mechanics of XCOM LW, but I've wrong before, at least once.		I usually keep up with what's going on here but I've been a bit busy playing Fallout 4 the past few days. Generally I think I have a fairly accurate understanding of the mechanics of XCOM LW, but I've wrong before, at least once.
	I like the rework you did to the page, looks much better now. I didn't check everything on the page so there's probably still something that on my opinion works differently, for example if we believe the dgc.ini, the gauss tech DR reduction is 0.34, not 0.33 ("COUNCIL_FUNDING_MULTIPLIER_EASY=0.34f ; All Gauss-tech weapons nullify this much Damage Reduction"), although a difference of 0.01 DR is completely irrelevant in almost any situation. --[[User:Demes\|Demes]] ([[User talk:Demes\|talk]]) 18:52, 13 November 2015 (EST)		I like the rework you did to the page, looks much better now. I didn't check everything on the page so there's probably still something that on my opinion works differently, for example if we believe the dgc.ini, the gauss tech DR reduction is 0.34, not 0.33 ("COUNCIL_FUNDING_MULTIPLIER_EASY=0.34f ; All Gauss-tech weapons nullify this much Damage Reduction"), although a difference of 0.01 DR is completely irrelevant in almost any situation. --[[User:Demes\|Demes]] ([[User talk:Demes\|talk]]) 18:52, 13 November 2015 (EST)

			A couple things that I think are wrong:

			'''Disoriented (as from e.g. Flashbang) [Effect] : -50 for 2 turns''' I believe Flashbangs only last 1.5 turns (The turn you throw it, the alien turn, your turn). Smoke grenades do last full 2 turns.

			'''Acid-covered (as from e.g. Chem Grenade) [Effect]: -20 for 3 turns''' Acid duration is not fixed, its something like 2-4 or 2-5 turns. Equipment page says its 2-4 turns so I would probably go with that but I wouldn't bet my first-born on that.

			And a couple things that may be wrong:

			'''Flat Cover DR is applied, if the target is in cover and not flanked, and the weapon is not an AP Grenade or Shredder Rocket''' I'm not sure if Shredder Rockets actually ignore cover DR, even though the targeting is similar to an AP grenade. Should probably be tested

			'''Sapper [Perk]: +1 for HE & AP, and +2 for Alien Grenades''' Sapper gives +2 to alien nades? This is new information to me, but I'll believe if this really is the case.
			--[[User:Demes\|Demes]] ([[User talk:Demes\|talk]]) 19:21, 13 November 2015 (EST)

Demes at 23:52, 13 November 2015

2015-11-13T23:52:28Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:52, 13 November 2015
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	@[[User:Demes\|Demes]] I have reverted your changes to the OW dashing multiplier and Combat Stims pursuant to information in these reddit LW threads [https://www.reddit.com/r/Xcom/comments/2mio9i/lw_overwatch_mechanics/] [https://www.reddit.com/r/Xcom/comments/35so0y/lwhow_overwatch_works/] [https://www.reddit.com/r/Xcom/comments/30hzxt/combat_stims_perk/]. I initially gave you the benefit of the doubt as me misremembering things, but it was bothering me and I decided to follow up on them with some research. It could be that those threads are out of date (or the individuals in question were misinformed at the time of posting) and you know something I don't, in which case I'd be perfectly fine with the edit being reinstated, but for the time being and in lieu of further clarification from you I've switched them back. [[User:DjinnFor\|DjinnFor]] ([[User talk:DjinnFor\|talk]]) 08:14, 13 November 2015 (EST)		@[[User:Demes\|Demes]] I have reverted your changes to the OW dashing multiplier and Combat Stims pursuant to information in these reddit LW threads [https://www.reddit.com/r/Xcom/comments/2mio9i/lw_overwatch_mechanics/] [https://www.reddit.com/r/Xcom/comments/35so0y/lwhow_overwatch_works/] [https://www.reddit.com/r/Xcom/comments/30hzxt/combat_stims_perk/]. I initially gave you the benefit of the doubt as me misremembering things, but it was bothering me and I decided to follow up on them with some research. It could be that those threads are out of date (or the individuals in question were misinformed at the time of posting) and you know something I don't, in which case I'd be perfectly fine with the edit being reinstated, but for the time being and in lieu of further clarification from you I've switched them back. [[User:DjinnFor\|DjinnFor]] ([[User talk:DjinnFor\|talk]]) 08:14, 13 November 2015 (EST)

			@[[User:DjinnFor\|DjinnFor]] The information I changed was based on mostly personal experience and some research. My understanding of the OW dashing multiplier is based on both the DefaultGameCore.ini file and personal experience. If you look at the .ini, under "tactical constants" on line ~1210 and onwards, There's two variables relating to OW. These are "REACTION_PENALTY=0.7f ; Reaction fire % of normal of hit chance." and "DASHING_REACTION_MODIFIER=0.5f ; Reaction fire % of normal hit chance against a dashing unit." From my experience, neither of these applies if the shooter has Opportunist. The Combat Stim mechanic, that one I think I noticed while playing, however it was just a quick observation (Adrenaline Surge seemed to have disappeared, when I healed myself to full), I didn't do any thorough testing. Would probably be for the best to test how it works ingame, shouldnt take long with the help of dev console. The damage reduction part (applies always), which you reverted too, I'm much more certain about, would make sense according to the wording on the wiki equpment page (note the oxford comma) and also isn't addressed in the sources you listed (I didn't notice it at least). However its always good to test it ingame, if you can. Because the exact mechanics are somewhat complex, not really explained anywhere or very clear at all, there is a lot of misinformation in Reddit, Twitch, and sometimes even here, although to a much lesser extent.

			I usually keep up with what's going on here but I've been a bit busy playing Fallout 4 the past few days. Generally I think I have a fairly accurate understanding of the mechanics of XCOM LW, but I've wrong before, at least once.
			I like the rework you did to the page, looks much better now. I didn't check everything on the page so there's probably still something that on my opinion works differently, for example if we believe the dgc.ini, the gauss tech DR reduction is 0.34, not 0.33 ("COUNCIL_FUNDING_MULTIPLIER_EASY=0.34f ; All Gauss-tech weapons nullify this much Damage Reduction"), although a difference of 0.01 DR is completely irrelevant in almost any situation. --[[User:Demes\|Demes]] ([[User talk:Demes\|talk]]) 18:52, 13 November 2015 (EST)

DjinnFor: /* Overhaul */

2015-11-13T13:14:09Z

Overhaul

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:14, 13 November 2015
Line 4:		Line 4:

	Did an exhaustive edit of the entire page; adding, removing, expanding and reformatting. Improved grammar and spelling, modified the overall page aesthetic, spruced up the wikitables with headers, added lists of relevant items for people interested in damage calculations, removed speculation and "advice" (this isn't a guide or tutorial), removed quotes by Amineri (no other page has them or even provides sources; if you want to do sources do it like a real wiki). If you think I changed something for the worse, let me know. --[[User:DjinnFor\|DjinnFor]] ([[User talk:DjinnFor\|talk]]) 02:35, 3 November 2015 (EST)		Did an exhaustive edit of the entire page; adding, removing, expanding and reformatting. Improved grammar and spelling, modified the overall page aesthetic, spruced up the wikitables with headers, added lists of relevant items for people interested in damage calculations, removed speculation and "advice" (this isn't a guide or tutorial), removed quotes by Amineri (no other page has them or even provides sources; if you want to do sources do it like a real wiki). If you think I changed something for the worse, let me know. --[[User:DjinnFor\|DjinnFor]] ([[User talk:DjinnFor\|talk]]) 02:35, 3 November 2015 (EST)

			@[[User:Demes\|Demes]] I have reverted your changes to the OW dashing multiplier and Combat Stims pursuant to information in these reddit LW threads [https://www.reddit.com/r/Xcom/comments/2mio9i/lw_overwatch_mechanics/] [https://www.reddit.com/r/Xcom/comments/35so0y/lwhow_overwatch_works/] [https://www.reddit.com/r/Xcom/comments/30hzxt/combat_stims_perk/]. I initially gave you the benefit of the doubt as me misremembering things, but it was bothering me and I decided to follow up on them with some research. It could be that those threads are out of date (or the individuals in question were misinformed at the time of posting) and you know something I don't, in which case I'd be perfectly fine with the edit being reinstated, but for the time being and in lieu of further clarification from you I've switched them back. [[User:DjinnFor\|DjinnFor]] ([[User talk:DjinnFor\|talk]]) 08:14, 13 November 2015 (EST)

DjinnFor: /* Overhaul */ new section

2015-11-03T07:35:16Z

Overhaul: new section

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:35, 3 November 2015
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	I added Amineri's explanation of damage roulette (https://www.reddit.com/r/Xcom/comments/30wtkq/lw_b15b_some_feedback/cpwzxl8) to "The randomization roll". First time editing, so apologies if I made any mistakes - DDADDA		I added Amineri's explanation of damage roulette (https://www.reddit.com/r/Xcom/comments/30wtkq/lw_b15b_some_feedback/cpwzxl8) to "The randomization roll". First time editing, so apologies if I made any mistakes - DDADDA

			== Overhaul ==

			Did an exhaustive edit of the entire page; adding, removing, expanding and reformatting. Improved grammar and spelling, modified the overall page aesthetic, spruced up the wikitables with headers, added lists of relevant items for people interested in damage calculations, removed speculation and "advice" (this isn't a guide or tutorial), removed quotes by Amineri (no other page has them or even provides sources; if you want to do sources do it like a real wiki). If you think I changed something for the worse, let me know. --[[User:DjinnFor\|DjinnFor]] ([[User talk:DjinnFor\|talk]]) 02:35, 3 November 2015 (EST)

DDADDA: Created page with "I added Amineri's explanation of damage roulette (https://www.reddit.com/r/Xcom/comments/30wtkq/lw_b15b_some_feedback/cpwzxl8) to "The randomization roll". First time editing,..."

2015-04-10T21:57:18Z

Created page with "I added Amineri's explanation of damage roulette (https://www.reddit.com/r/Xcom/comments/30wtkq/lw_b15b_some_feedback/cpwzxl8) to "The randomization roll". First time editing,..."

New page

I added Amineri's explanation of damage roulette (https://www.reddit.com/r/Xcom/comments/30wtkq/lw_b15b_some_feedback/cpwzxl8) to "The randomization roll". First time editing, so apologies if I made any mistakes - DDADDA