Talk:Armour - Revision history

Spike: /* Armour - Survival Rates */ Why Drills?

2009-03-10T09:13:35Z

Armour - Survival Rates: Why Drills?

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:13, 10 March 2009
Line 84:		Line 84:

	:Then a Xcom survival rate vs TFTD melee weapons is a little redundant... since no alien is gonna use them on you... [[User:Jasonred\|Jasonred]] 03:20, 10 March 2009 (CDT)		:Then a Xcom survival rate vs TFTD melee weapons is a little redundant... since no alien is gonna use them on you... [[User:Jasonred\|Jasonred]] 03:20, 10 March 2009 (CDT)

			:Yeah I was thinking that. :) But then I thought, maybe you have an MC'd Aquanaut in Mag-Ion armour that you need to take down. A Drill might be the best weapon - probably is.

			: By the way I'm still fiddling with my main Firepower spreadsheet, prompted by the gaps Zombie spotted and the IC discussions. Should finish & upload today. [[User:Spike\|Spike]] 04:13, 10 March 2009 (CDT)

Jasonred at 08:20, 10 March 2009

2009-03-10T08:20:26Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:20, 10 March 2009
Line 82:		Line 82:

	:Nope, they just stand around looking funny. Usually they have a bunch (4!) of Sonic Pulsers though, and that is 1000 times worse than a working Lance, LOL. --[[User:Zombie\|Zombie]] 14:36, 9 March 2009 (CDT)		:Nope, they just stand around looking funny. Usually they have a bunch (4!) of Sonic Pulsers though, and that is 1000 times worse than a working Lance, LOL. --[[User:Zombie\|Zombie]] 14:36, 9 March 2009 (CDT)

			:Then a Xcom survival rate vs TFTD melee weapons is a little redundant... since no alien is gonna use them on you... [[User:Jasonred\|Jasonred]] 03:20, 10 March 2009 (CDT)

Zombie: /* Armour - Survival Rates */ Reply to Spike, removed extra word from my previous post.

2009-03-09T19:40:45Z

Armour - Survival Rates: Reply to Spike, removed extra word from my previous post.

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:40, 9 March 2009
Line 75:		Line 75:

	:I've also just realised I goofed - Flying Suit has a higher armour level than Power Suit, so I need to add another column for Flying Suit. Let me get back to you with an update, and when I'm done I'll also post the update of the full table in case people want to play with it. [[User:Spike\|Spike]] 11:44, 9 March 2009 (CDT)		:I've also just realised I goofed - Flying Suit has a higher armour level than Power Suit, so I need to add another column for Flying Suit. Let me get back to you with an update, and when I'm done I'll also post the update of the full table in case people want to play with it. [[User:Spike\|Spike]] 11:44, 9 March 2009 (CDT)

			You are also missing the SWS's for TFTD too... and the built-in weapons for the aliens as well. But that's ok. We'll just work on sorting out the Enemy Unknown tables first. --[[User:Zombie\|Zombie]] 14:40, 9 March 2009 (CDT)

	----		----
	:: Do aliens know how to use those melee weapons in TFTD? The non-built in ones, I mean. [[User:Jasonred\|Jasonred]]		Do aliens know how to use those melee weapons in TFTD? The non-built in ones, I mean. [[User:Jasonred\|Jasonred]]

	Nope, they just stand around looking funny. Usually they have a bunch (4!) of Sonic Pulsers though, and that is 1000 times worse than a ~~working~~ working Lance, LOL. --[[User:Zombie\|Zombie]] 14:36, 9 March 2009 (CDT)		:Nope, they just stand around looking funny. Usually they have a bunch (4!) of Sonic Pulsers though, and that is 1000 times worse than a working Lance, LOL. --[[User:Zombie\|Zombie]] 14:36, 9 March 2009 (CDT)

Zombie: /* Armour - Survival Rates */ Reply to Jasonred.

2009-03-09T19:36:45Z

Armour - Survival Rates: Reply to Jasonred.

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:36, 9 March 2009
Line 71:		Line 71:

	:I'd forgotten I'd left out the TFTD Melee weapons. I think I was asking a question about them a long time ago and meant to add in those weapons later, but I forgot. Mainly I use this spreadsheet for XCOM, and in fact I don't have any of the target values for TFTD - neither Aquanaut armour nor TFTD alien armour/stats. You could just filter out the green ones for now. I'll see if I can add in the TFTD melee weapons, their stats are presumably here on the UFOPaedia somewhere.		:I'd forgotten I'd left out the TFTD Melee weapons. I think I was asking a question about them a long time ago and meant to add in those weapons later, but I forgot. Mainly I use this spreadsheet for XCOM, and in fact I don't have any of the target values for TFTD - neither Aquanaut armour nor TFTD alien armour/stats. You could just filter out the green ones for now. I'll see if I can add in the TFTD melee weapons, their stats are presumably here on the UFOPaedia somewhere.

	~~:: Do aliens know how to use those melee weapons in TFTD? The non-built in ones, I mean.~~

	:You're right there are no formulas in here for calculating the 3 base values - Probability Damage is Not Zero (pNZ), Probability of a Kill with 1 Hit (pK1), and average penetrating damage (AvDm). Theser formulas are on the main firepower table [[Image:Firepower.xls]] (but I haven't uploaded the latest version); this Survival Rate table is just a copy of a new extra tab on that spreadsheet.		:You're right there are no formulas in here for calculating the 3 base values - Probability Damage is Not Zero (pNZ), Probability of a Kill with 1 Hit (pK1), and average penetrating damage (AvDm). Theser formulas are on the main firepower table [[Image:Firepower.xls]] (but I haven't uploaded the latest version); this Survival Rate table is just a copy of a new extra tab on that spreadsheet.

	:I've also just realised I goofed - Flying Suit has a higher armour level than Power Suit, so I need to add another column for Flying Suit. Let me get back to you with an update, and when I'm done I'll also post the update of the full table in case people want to play with it. [[User:Spike\|Spike]] 11:44, 9 March 2009 (CDT)		:I've also just realised I goofed - Flying Suit has a higher armour level than Power Suit, so I need to add another column for Flying Suit. Let me get back to you with an update, and when I'm done I'll also post the update of the full table in case people want to play with it. [[User:Spike\|Spike]] 11:44, 9 March 2009 (CDT)

			----
			:: Do aliens know how to use those melee weapons in TFTD? The non-built in ones, I mean. [[User:Jasonred\|Jasonred]]

			Nope, they just stand around looking funny. Usually they have a bunch (4!) of Sonic Pulsers though, and that is 1000 times worse than a working working Lance, LOL. --[[User:Zombie\|Zombie]] 14:36, 9 March 2009 (CDT)

Jasonred: /* Armour - Survival Rates */

2009-03-09T17:52:16Z

Armour - Survival Rates

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:52, 9 March 2009
Line 71:		Line 71:

	:I'd forgotten I'd left out the TFTD Melee weapons. I think I was asking a question about them a long time ago and meant to add in those weapons later, but I forgot. Mainly I use this spreadsheet for XCOM, and in fact I don't have any of the target values for TFTD - neither Aquanaut armour nor TFTD alien armour/stats. You could just filter out the green ones for now. I'll see if I can add in the TFTD melee weapons, their stats are presumably here on the UFOPaedia somewhere.		:I'd forgotten I'd left out the TFTD Melee weapons. I think I was asking a question about them a long time ago and meant to add in those weapons later, but I forgot. Mainly I use this spreadsheet for XCOM, and in fact I don't have any of the target values for TFTD - neither Aquanaut armour nor TFTD alien armour/stats. You could just filter out the green ones for now. I'll see if I can add in the TFTD melee weapons, their stats are presumably here on the UFOPaedia somewhere.

			:: Do aliens know how to use those melee weapons in TFTD? The non-built in ones, I mean.

	:You're right there are no formulas in here for calculating the 3 base values - Probability Damage is Not Zero (pNZ), Probability of a Kill with 1 Hit (pK1), and average penetrating damage (AvDm). Theser formulas are on the main firepower table [[Image:Firepower.xls]] (but I haven't uploaded the latest version); this Survival Rate table is just a copy of a new extra tab on that spreadsheet.		:You're right there are no formulas in here for calculating the 3 base values - Probability Damage is Not Zero (pNZ), Probability of a Kill with 1 Hit (pK1), and average penetrating damage (AvDm). Theser formulas are on the main firepower table [[Image:Firepower.xls]] (but I haven't uploaded the latest version); this Survival Rate table is just a copy of a new extra tab on that spreadsheet.

	:I've also just realised I goofed - Flying Suit has a higher armour level than Power Suit, so I need to add another column for Flying Suit. Let me get back to you with an update, and when I'm done I'll also post the update of the full table in case people want to play with it. [[User:Spike\|Spike]] 11:44, 9 March 2009 (CDT)		:I've also just realised I goofed - Flying Suit has a higher armour level than Power Suit, so I need to add another column for Flying Suit. Let me get back to you with an update, and when I'm done I'll also post the update of the full table in case people want to play with it. [[User:Spike\|Spike]] 11:44, 9 March 2009 (CDT)

Spike: /* Armour - Survival Rates */ Reply to Zombie re Survival Tables (some omissions/mistakes)

2009-03-09T16:44:57Z

Armour - Survival Rates: Reply to Zombie re Survival Tables (some omissions/mistakes)

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:44, 9 March 2009
Line 67:		Line 67:

	I looked it over and I think it will have to be broken up into 4 separate tables and then placed next to each other for best results (and to use the sort function properly). Seems you forgot about the Vibro Blade, Thermic Lance and Heavy Thermic Lance for TFTD. (Which I assume is what the green text stands for). I'd normally add those in myself, but I don't see an equation for figuring out the probability of 1 kill and hits to kill columns; all you have listed are values. PK1 seems to be 1-PW1 but I don't know about the hits per kill column. --[[User:Zombie\|Zombie]] 10:16, 9 March 2009 (CDT)		I looked it over and I think it will have to be broken up into 4 separate tables and then placed next to each other for best results (and to use the sort function properly). Seems you forgot about the Vibro Blade, Thermic Lance and Heavy Thermic Lance for TFTD. (Which I assume is what the green text stands for). I'd normally add those in myself, but I don't see an equation for figuring out the probability of 1 kill and hits to kill columns; all you have listed are values. PK1 seems to be 1-PW1 but I don't know about the hits per kill column. --[[User:Zombie\|Zombie]] 10:16, 9 March 2009 (CDT)

			:Yes 4 tables makes sense. It would be possible to make it one table, for the purposes of the Med-Kit discussion, by only listing "%Wounded" and treating zero damage and an instant kill as effectively the same - which, from the Medic's point of view, they are. :) Otherwise, you need to show at least 2 columns per armour type.

			:I'd forgotten I'd left out the TFTD Melee weapons. I think I was asking a question about them a long time ago and meant to add in those weapons later, but I forgot. Mainly I use this spreadsheet for XCOM, and in fact I don't have any of the target values for TFTD - neither Aquanaut armour nor TFTD alien armour/stats. You could just filter out the green ones for now. I'll see if I can add in the TFTD melee weapons, their stats are presumably here on the UFOPaedia somewhere.

			:You're right there are no formulas in here for calculating the 3 base values - Probability Damage is Not Zero (pNZ), Probability of a Kill with 1 Hit (pK1), and average penetrating damage (AvDm). Theser formulas are on the main firepower table [[Image:Firepower.xls]] (but I haven't uploaded the latest version); this Survival Rate table is just a copy of a new extra tab on that spreadsheet.

			:I've also just realised I goofed - Flying Suit has a higher armour level than Power Suit, so I need to add another column for Flying Suit. Let me get back to you with an update, and when I'm done I'll also post the update of the full table in case people want to play with it. [[User:Spike\|Spike]] 11:44, 9 March 2009 (CDT)

Zombie: /* Armour - Survival Rates */ Reply to Spike.

2009-03-09T15:16:33Z

Armour - Survival Rates: Reply to Spike.

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:16, 9 March 2009
Line 64:		Line 64:
	::Deal! Getting the Fatal Wounds calculation exactly right was too tricky (for now) so I'm taking the %chance of damage as a fair approximation of the %chance of Fatal Wounds. I've uploaded [[Image:XCom_Armour_Survival_Table.xls]] as an .XLS spreadsheet - do your Wiki magic! [[User:Spike\|Spike]] 07:54, 9 March 2009 (CDT)		::Deal! Getting the Fatal Wounds calculation exactly right was too tricky (for now) so I'm taking the %chance of damage as a fair approximation of the %chance of Fatal Wounds. I've uploaded [[Image:XCom_Armour_Survival_Table.xls]] as an .XLS spreadsheet - do your Wiki magic! [[User:Spike\|Spike]] 07:54, 9 March 2009 (CDT)

	::Zombie is a card carrying member of the Dudley Brothers. ;) [[User:Jasonred\|Jasonred]] 23:36, 8 March 2009 (CDT)		:Zombie is a card carrying member of the Dudley Brothers. ;) [[User:Jasonred\|Jasonred]] 23:36, 8 March 2009 (CDT)

			I looked it over and I think it will have to be broken up into 4 separate tables and then placed next to each other for best results (and to use the sort function properly). Seems you forgot about the Vibro Blade, Thermic Lance and Heavy Thermic Lance for TFTD. (Which I assume is what the green text stands for). I'd normally add those in myself, but I don't see an equation for figuring out the probability of 1 kill and hits to kill columns; all you have listed are values. PK1 seems to be 1-PW1 but I don't know about the hits per kill column. --[[User:Zombie\|Zombie]] 10:16, 9 March 2009 (CDT)

Spike: /* Armour - Survival Rates */ For Zombie - Link to spreadsheet on Survival Rates

2009-03-09T12:54:55Z

Armour - Survival Rates: For Zombie - Link to spreadsheet on Survival Rates

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:54, 9 March 2009
Line 61:		Line 61:

	:Send it my way Spike. I have plenty of experience with tables. ;) --[[User:Zombie\|Zombie]] 19:33, 8 March 2009 (CDT)		:Send it my way Spike. I have plenty of experience with tables. ;) --[[User:Zombie\|Zombie]] 19:33, 8 March 2009 (CDT)

			::Deal! Getting the Fatal Wounds calculation exactly right was too tricky (for now) so I'm taking the %chance of damage as a fair approximation of the %chance of Fatal Wounds. I've uploaded [[Image:XCom_Armour_Survival_Table.xls]] as an .XLS spreadsheet - do your Wiki magic! [[User:Spike\|Spike]] 07:54, 9 March 2009 (CDT)

	::Zombie is a card carrying member of the Dudley Brothers. ;) [[User:Jasonred\|Jasonred]] 23:36, 8 March 2009 (CDT)		::Zombie is a card carrying member of the Dudley Brothers. ;) [[User:Jasonred\|Jasonred]] 23:36, 8 March 2009 (CDT)

Jasonred: /* Armour - Survival Rates */

2009-03-09T04:36:00Z

Armour - Survival Rates

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:36, 9 March 2009
Line 61:		Line 61:

	:Send it my way Spike. I have plenty of experience with tables. ;) --[[User:Zombie\|Zombie]] 19:33, 8 March 2009 (CDT)		:Send it my way Spike. I have plenty of experience with tables. ;) --[[User:Zombie\|Zombie]] 19:33, 8 March 2009 (CDT)

			::Zombie is a card carrying member of the Dudley Brothers. ;) [[User:Jasonred\|Jasonred]] 23:36, 8 March 2009 (CDT)

Zombie: /* Armour - Survival Rates */ Reply to Spike.

2009-03-09T00:33:27Z

Armour - Survival Rates: Reply to Spike.

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:33, 9 March 2009
Line 59:		Line 59:

	As a reminder to myself, there's a Survival Rates link on the main page so I will link to that when I'm done. [[User:Spike\|Spike]] 19:29, 8 March 2009 (CDT)		As a reminder to myself, there's a Survival Rates link on the main page so I will link to that when I'm done. [[User:Spike\|Spike]] 19:29, 8 March 2009 (CDT)

			:Send it my way Spike. I have plenty of experience with tables. ;) --[[User:Zombie\|Zombie]] 19:33, 8 March 2009 (CDT)

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:40, 9 March 2009
Line 75:		Line 75:

	:I've also just realised I goofed - Flying Suit has a higher armour level than Power Suit, so I need to add another column for Flying Suit. Let me get back to you with an update, and when I'm done I'll also post the update of the full table in case people want to play with it. [[User:Spike\|Spike]] 11:44, 9 March 2009 (CDT)		:I've also just realised I goofed - Flying Suit has a higher armour level than Power Suit, so I need to add another column for Flying Suit. Let me get back to you with an update, and when I'm done I'll also post the update of the full table in case people want to play with it. [[User:Spike\|Spike]] 11:44, 9 March 2009 (CDT)

			You are also missing the SWS's for TFTD too... and the built-in weapons for the aliens as well. But that's ok. We'll just work on sorting out the Enemy Unknown tables first. --[[User:Zombie\|Zombie]] 14:40, 9 March 2009 (CDT)

	----		----
	:: Do aliens know how to use those melee weapons in TFTD? The non-built in ones, I mean. [[User:Jasonred\|Jasonred]]		Do aliens know how to use those melee weapons in TFTD? The non-built in ones, I mean. [[User:Jasonred\|Jasonred]]

	Nope, they just stand around looking funny. Usually they have a bunch (4!) of Sonic Pulsers though, and that is 1000 times worse than a ~~working~~ working Lance, LOL. --[[User:Zombie\|Zombie]] 14:36, 9 March 2009 (CDT)		:Nope, they just stand around looking funny. Usually they have a bunch (4!) of Sonic Pulsers though, and that is 1000 times worse than a working Lance, LOL. --[[User:Zombie\|Zombie]] 14:36, 9 March 2009 (CDT)

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:16, 9 March 2009
Line 64:		Line 64:
	::Deal! Getting the Fatal Wounds calculation exactly right was too tricky (for now) so I'm taking the %chance of damage as a fair approximation of the %chance of Fatal Wounds. I've uploaded [[Image:XCom_Armour_Survival_Table.xls]] as an .XLS spreadsheet - do your Wiki magic! [[User:Spike\|Spike]] 07:54, 9 March 2009 (CDT)		::Deal! Getting the Fatal Wounds calculation exactly right was too tricky (for now) so I'm taking the %chance of damage as a fair approximation of the %chance of Fatal Wounds. I've uploaded [[Image:XCom_Armour_Survival_Table.xls]] as an .XLS spreadsheet - do your Wiki magic! [[User:Spike\|Spike]] 07:54, 9 March 2009 (CDT)

	::Zombie is a card carrying member of the Dudley Brothers. ;) [[User:Jasonred\|Jasonred]] 23:36, 8 March 2009 (CDT)		:Zombie is a card carrying member of the Dudley Brothers. ;) [[User:Jasonred\|Jasonred]] 23:36, 8 March 2009 (CDT)

			I looked it over and I think it will have to be broken up into 4 separate tables and then placed next to each other for best results (and to use the sort function properly). Seems you forgot about the Vibro Blade, Thermic Lance and Heavy Thermic Lance for TFTD. (Which I assume is what the green text stands for). I'd normally add those in myself, but I don't see an equation for figuring out the probability of 1 kill and hits to kill columns; all you have listed are values. PK1 seems to be 1-PW1 but I don't know about the hits per kill column. --[[User:Zombie\|Zombie]] 10:16, 9 March 2009 (CDT)

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:54, 9 March 2009
Line 61:		Line 61:

	:Send it my way Spike. I have plenty of experience with tables. ;) --[[User:Zombie\|Zombie]] 19:33, 8 March 2009 (CDT)		:Send it my way Spike. I have plenty of experience with tables. ;) --[[User:Zombie\|Zombie]] 19:33, 8 March 2009 (CDT)

			::Deal! Getting the Fatal Wounds calculation exactly right was too tricky (for now) so I'm taking the %chance of damage as a fair approximation of the %chance of Fatal Wounds. I've uploaded [[Image:XCom_Armour_Survival_Table.xls]] as an .XLS spreadsheet - do your Wiki magic! [[User:Spike\|Spike]] 07:54, 9 March 2009 (CDT)

	::Zombie is a card carrying member of the Dudley Brothers. ;) [[User:Jasonred\|Jasonred]] 23:36, 8 March 2009 (CDT)		::Zombie is a card carrying member of the Dudley Brothers. ;) [[User:Jasonred\|Jasonred]] 23:36, 8 March 2009 (CDT)