Talk:Alien Missions - Revision history

Magic9mushroom: /* Aborting an enemy mission? */

2022-11-06T06:14:10Z

Aborting an enemy mission?

← Older revision		Revision as of 06:14, 6 November 2022
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	Can you actually accomplish anything with downing the scouts and light ships?		Can you actually accomplish anything with downing the scouts and light ships?
	[[User:Keybounce\|Keybounce]] ([[User talk:Keybounce\|talk]]) 06:11, 2 November 2022 (CET)		[[User:Keybounce\|Keybounce]] ([[User talk:Keybounce\|talk]]) 06:11, 2 November 2022 (CET)

			:Alien missions will never abort; all the UFOs will appear, although shootdowns will delay them.

			:As for ''failure'', it's a bit more complicated. Research and Supply don't do anything if ignored (besides the generic alien scoring for UFOs flying around, which is minimal), so there's no real "success" or "failure" state. Harvest, Abduction and the first two UFOs of Alien Terror score [[Scoring#Alien_Scoring\|significant amounts of points]] every time a UFO ''takes off'', which means that a shootdown on the way in or assault on the ground will deny the aliens those points (note that some of the UFOs land multiple times, scoring each time they take off). Alien Terror also scores an enormous amount of points (1,000) if a Terror Site is ignored (and losing a Terror Site or "winning" after all the civilians are dead will also hurt your score), but you can prevent the Terror Site entirely by shooting down the second Terror Ship. Alien Retaliation's goal is to find and destroy an X-Com base, and you can thwart that by either shooting down the scouts before your base is found, or winning the Base Defence mission. On the other hand, Alien Base and Alien Infiltration will always succeed (creating a base, and removing a country in the latter case); all you can do is delay them.

			:One kinda-weird thing about the first two X-Com games is that you straight-up can win without ever shooting down a UFO; because most UFOs land, you can capture them on the ground (which, along with Alien Base Assaults, is enough to get all the necessary research prerequisites), and ground battles will suffice to stop most of the big alien scoring opportunities (you'll still get penalised for civilian deaths at Terror Sites, but that's not usually enough on its own to make you lose the game). I would consider optimal play (in the sense of "play that minimises the game clock time until you beat Cydonia") to still involve some interceptions, though, because there are a few advantages to intercepting at least some UFOs:

			**You score more points from intercepting UFOs, since you directly get points for crashing or destroying UFOs.
			**Some UFOs don't land (most Small Scouts, everything on Retaliation except the base-attack battleship, and the first Terror Ship in an Alien Terror mission), or don't land recoverably (i.e. you can't recover the UFO components from a Terror Ship that created a Terror Site, or a Battleship that caused a Base Defence) so shooting them down is the only way to get the (highly-valuable) loot from them.
			**If you're not confident in your ability to win a Base Defence (a Sectoid one early on is no joke even for your main base, ''particularly'' if it comes when your Skyranger is out on a mission, and radar/interception bases may not even have a Living Quarters), shooting down Retaliation scouts can avoid losing a base, which is pretty worthwhile (most Retaliation only happens if you do interception, but you will eventually get some that happen on their own).
			**What you describe as "getting overwhelmed" can happen even if you don't shoot down UFOs, because some missions will put several UFOs on the globe at once in the final stages (five for Infiltration, four for Base, two for Harvest and Abduction). Shooting down some of these will both prevent that particular UFO from escaping (since Skyrangers have to return to base between missions, it can be tricky/impossible to hit all of them with Ground Assaults, whereas crash sites last for at least a day after the shootdown) and, if you do it before all the UFOs have spawned, delay the remaining UFOs (allowing you to Ground Assault the delayed UFOs later, when you're ''not'' overwhelmed).
			**When an Alien Infiltration mission completes, it starts over, repeating until all countries in that zone have been infiltrated. As such, the time delays from shooting down UFOs can add up to keeping funding countries for one or even two extra months compared to what would have happened if you didn't do any interception.

			:So in both cases ("can you thwart the aliens' plans" and "is there a point to interception") the answer's not a definite "yes", but it's not "no" either. You can thwart some but not all alien missions (and you kinda need to thwart at least Terror or you'll lose from score), and there are some reasons to intercept in some cases (but it's not strictly required in any case and isn't even optimal in many cases). [[User:Magic9mushroom\|Magic9mushroom]] ([[User talk:Magic9mushroom\|talk]]) 07:14, 6 November 2022 (CET)

Keybounce: /* Aborting an enemy mission? */ new section

2022-11-02T05:11:35Z

Aborting an enemy mission?: new section

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	UFOs do appear over Russia. It's the withdrawal of Russia as a funding nation that is difficult to achieve. -[[User:NKF\|NKF]] 15:46, 6 January 2012 (EST)		UFOs do appear over Russia. It's the withdrawal of Russia as a funding nation that is difficult to achieve. -[[User:NKF\|NKF]] 15:46, 6 January 2012 (EST)

			== Aborting an enemy mission? ==

			Is it possible to abort an enemy mission, or force it to fail?

			Is the only consequence of shooting down ships being just a delay in the next ones? Once a mission starts, does it always eventually succeed?

			Do all bases eventually get built?<br />
			Do all government infiltrations succeed in taking out a funding nation? <br />
			Etc. <br />
			Do your actions actually accomplish anything?

			What I think I'm reading here is that all you can do by shooting things down is delay the next wave. And if you shoot down enough things, and delay them long enough, then you eventually reach the point of so many aliens in the air at once, with so many missions being active at once, that you are overwhemed -- which matches my play observations around april.

			So is shooting down UFO's actually counter productive? If they are going to do things, is it better to let them have "normal spacing", so you can avoid being overwhelmed later on?

			Can you actually accomplish anything with downing the scouts and light ships?
			[[User:Keybounce\|Keybounce]] ([[User talk:Keybounce\|talk]]) 06:11, 2 November 2022 (CET)

Keybounce: First entry had no title, messing up the ToC.

2022-11-02T05:03:09Z

First entry had no title, messing up the ToC.

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:03, 2 November 2022
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			== No interceptors, only skyrangers, to protect bases ==
	I'm curious, can people tell me if the aliens will ONLY retaliate against bases if the player is shooting down UFO's, and won't retaliate against the player always attacking UFO's while landed.		I'm curious, can people tell me if the aliens will ONLY retaliate against bases if the player is shooting down UFO's, and won't retaliate against the player always attacking UFO's while landed.

NKF: /* UFOs over Russia */ new section

2012-01-06T20:46:42Z

UFOs over Russia: new section

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:46, 6 January 2012
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	:Yes the "Research into the nature of the Alien threat" is conceptually related. It's almost the opposite of what's on this page, which is the Aliens' own activities. I think a cross-reference to Research is what is needed, and maybe an edit to a Research page (or a new Research page) to specifically discuss these related topics. [[User:Spike\|Spike]] 12:57, 4 August 2009 (EDT)		:Yes the "Research into the nature of the Alien threat" is conceptually related. It's almost the opposite of what's on this page, which is the Aliens' own activities. I think a cross-reference to Research is what is needed, and maybe an edit to a Research page (or a new Research page) to specifically discuss these related topics. [[User:Spike\|Spike]] 12:57, 4 August 2009 (EDT)

			== UFOs over Russia ==

			Just a comment on the last update:

			UFOs do appear over Russia. It's the withdrawal of Russia as a funding nation that is difficult to achieve. -[[User:NKF\|NKF]] 15:46, 6 January 2012 (EST)

Sowelu: /* What does it take for Alien Infiltration to be successful? */

2011-03-05T01:39:04Z

What does it take for Alien Infiltration to be successful?

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	: Precident from alien base operations would suggest that the infiltration occurs when the last UFO enters earth atmosphere--[[User:(name here)\|(name here)]] 09:15, 27 August 2008 (PDT)		: Precident from alien base operations would suggest that the infiltration occurs when the last UFO enters earth atmosphere--[[User:(name here)\|(name here)]] 09:15, 27 August 2008 (PDT)

	For every single other (non-retaliation) mission, shooting down a ship doesn't stop the next ships from arriving, it ONLY delays them. However, shooting them down can keep the aliens from scoring points, or prevent them from deploying a terror mission or building a base. (Right? They don't repeat those if shot down, correct?) What about infiltration missions, though? The battleships don't need to land to be successful. Are you doomed to suffer infiltration no more than two months after the mission is initiated, and keep losing countries like that forever?		For every single other (non-retaliation) mission, shooting down a ship doesn't stop the next ships from arriving, it ONLY delays them. However, shooting them down can keep the aliens from scoring points, or prevent them from deploying a terror mission or building a base. (Right? They don't repeat those if shot down, correct?) What about infiltration missions, though? The battleships don't need to land to be successful. Are you doomed to suffer infiltration no more than two months after the mission is initiated, and keep losing countries like that forever? [[User:Sowelu\|Sowelu]] 20:39, 4 March 2011 (EST)

	== How do missions work ==		== How do missions work ==

Sowelu: /* What does it take for Alien Infiltration to be successful? */

2011-03-05T01:38:56Z

What does it take for Alien Infiltration to be successful?

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:38, 5 March 2011
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	: Precident from alien base operations would suggest that the infiltration occurs when the last UFO enters earth atmosphere--[[User:(name here)\|(name here)]] 09:15, 27 August 2008 (PDT)		: Precident from alien base operations would suggest that the infiltration occurs when the last UFO enters earth atmosphere--[[User:(name here)\|(name here)]] 09:15, 27 August 2008 (PDT)

			For every single other (non-retaliation) mission, shooting down a ship doesn't stop the next ships from arriving, it ONLY delays them. However, shooting them down can keep the aliens from scoring points, or prevent them from deploying a terror mission or building a base. (Right? They don't repeat those if shot down, correct?) What about infiltration missions, though? The battleships don't need to land to be successful. Are you doomed to suffer infiltration no more than two months after the mission is initiated, and keep losing countries like that forever?

	== How do missions work ==		== How do missions work ==

Spike: /* Alien Origins, Martian Solution, Cydonia/Bust */

2009-08-04T16:57:22Z

Alien Origins, Martian Solution, Cydonia/Bust

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	They do sort of form a unit, but maybe it's covered sufficiently elsewhere on the site. The reason I thought of such a name was because it's research into the aliens themselves (ie where are they from, what are they doing, how do we stop them). [[User:Magic9mushroom\|Magic9mushroom]] 08:27, 4 August 2009 (EDT)		They do sort of form a unit, but maybe it's covered sufficiently elsewhere on the site. The reason I thought of such a name was because it's research into the aliens themselves (ie where are they from, what are they doing, how do we stop them). [[User:Magic9mushroom\|Magic9mushroom]] 08:27, 4 August 2009 (EDT)

			:Yes the "Research into the nature of the Alien threat" is conceptually related. It's almost the opposite of what's on this page, which is the Aliens' own activities. I think a cross-reference to Research is what is needed, and maybe an edit to a Research page (or a new Research page) to specifically discuss these related topics. [[User:Spike\|Spike]] 12:57, 4 August 2009 (EDT)

Magic9mushroom: /* Alien Origins, Martian Solution, Cydonia/Bust */

2009-08-04T12:27:08Z

Alien Origins, Martian Solution, Cydonia/Bust

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:27, 4 August 2009
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	: I agree the Research discussions don't really belong on this page. But rather than creating a new page, there is already a category page "[[Research]]", which is linked from the site homepage, and also from this page in the See Also section. The various articles linked-to off this category page cover most of the topics you're discussing. I would suggest instead that you review those articles and see if anything needs adding to clarify these issues around Alien Origins etc - quite possibly they do need updating. I'm not sure it makes sense to add a new page called Alien Research - with a few exceptions (the laser weapons, medkits, motion sensors), all Research is Alien Research of one kind or another. So possibly remove the references from the current page and replace them with a very brief summary and pointer(s) to the appropriate Research page(s)? [[User:Spike\|Spike]] 10:07, 2 August 2009 (EDT)		: I agree the Research discussions don't really belong on this page. But rather than creating a new page, there is already a category page "[[Research]]", which is linked from the site homepage, and also from this page in the See Also section. The various articles linked-to off this category page cover most of the topics you're discussing. I would suggest instead that you review those articles and see if anything needs adding to clarify these issues around Alien Origins etc - quite possibly they do need updating. I'm not sure it makes sense to add a new page called Alien Research - with a few exceptions (the laser weapons, medkits, motion sensors), all Research is Alien Research of one kind or another. So possibly remove the references from the current page and replace them with a very brief summary and pointer(s) to the appropriate Research page(s)? [[User:Spike\|Spike]] 10:07, 2 August 2009 (EDT)

			They do sort of form a unit, but maybe it's covered sufficiently elsewhere on the site. The reason I thought of such a name was because it's research into the aliens themselves (ie where are they from, what are they doing, how do we stop them). [[User:Magic9mushroom\|Magic9mushroom]] 08:27, 4 August 2009 (EDT)

Spike: /* Alien Origins, Martian Solution, Cydonia/Bust */ Re Proposal

2009-08-02T14:07:09Z

Alien Origins, Martian Solution, Cydonia/Bust: Re Proposal

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:07, 2 August 2009
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	It certainly doesn't belong in the Alien Missions template or page, since there's no relation either through Alien Navigators or in terms of needing the mission data for the game-ending research. It really belongs in a separate page, maybe "Alien Research"? After all, that's what the UFOpaedia category is called, and AO/tMS/CoB are more Alien Research-ish than the Alien Mission data. So I'd want to move "Alien Research" to "Alien Research (Alien Mission)" and create a separate page for the AO/tMS/CoB called "Alien Research". This ok? And would it be worth listing the TFTD AO/tUT/T,tA'sC there too? [[User:Magic9mushroom\|Magic9mushroom]] 05:36, 31 July 2009 (EDT)		It certainly doesn't belong in the Alien Missions template or page, since there's no relation either through Alien Navigators or in terms of needing the mission data for the game-ending research. It really belongs in a separate page, maybe "Alien Research"? After all, that's what the UFOpaedia category is called, and AO/tMS/CoB are more Alien Research-ish than the Alien Mission data. So I'd want to move "Alien Research" to "Alien Research (Alien Mission)" and create a separate page for the AO/tMS/CoB called "Alien Research". This ok? And would it be worth listing the TFTD AO/tUT/T,tA'sC there too? [[User:Magic9mushroom\|Magic9mushroom]] 05:36, 31 July 2009 (EDT)

			: I agree the Research discussions don't really belong on this page. But rather than creating a new page, there is already a category page "[[Research]]", which is linked from the site homepage, and also from this page in the See Also section. The various articles linked-to off this category page cover most of the topics you're discussing. I would suggest instead that you review those articles and see if anything needs adding to clarify these issues around Alien Origins etc - quite possibly they do need updating. I'm not sure it makes sense to add a new page called Alien Research - with a few exceptions (the laser weapons, medkits, motion sensors), all Research is Alien Research of one kind or another. So possibly remove the references from the current page and replace them with a very brief summary and pointer(s) to the appropriate Research page(s)? [[User:Spike\|Spike]] 10:07, 2 August 2009 (EDT)

Magic9mushroom: /* Alien Origins, Martian Solution, Cydonia/Bust */ Proposal

2009-07-31T09:36:55Z

Alien Origins, Martian Solution, Cydonia/Bust: Proposal

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:36, 31 July 2009
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	: With the above topics though, they are probably better covered in the research section or any section that covers missions that you can go on, like terror missions or base attacks. On the other hand, they are also not listed on the page as alien missions and just listed as related topics. They do lead to the end-game mission, which is a mission certainly but not a job the UFOs perform. -[[User:NKF\|NKF]] 03:02, 30 July 2009 (EDT)		: With the above topics though, they are probably better covered in the research section or any section that covers missions that you can go on, like terror missions or base attacks. On the other hand, they are also not listed on the page as alien missions and just listed as related topics. They do lead to the end-game mission, which is a mission certainly but not a job the UFOs perform. -[[User:NKF\|NKF]] 03:02, 30 July 2009 (EDT)

			It certainly doesn't belong in the Alien Missions template or page, since there's no relation either through Alien Navigators or in terms of needing the mission data for the game-ending research. It really belongs in a separate page, maybe "Alien Research"? After all, that's what the UFOpaedia category is called, and AO/tMS/CoB are more Alien Research-ish than the Alien Mission data. So I'd want to move "Alien Research" to "Alien Research (Alien Mission)" and create a separate page for the AO/tMS/CoB called "Alien Research". This ok? And would it be worth listing the TFTD AO/tUT/T,tA'sC there too? [[User:Magic9mushroom\|Magic9mushroom]] 05:36, 31 July 2009 (EDT)