View source for Talk:Biochemistry

it seems to me that the values under "cost" are WAY off. First off, I am making the assumption that by cost we mean "skill hours" and not financial cost. Some of them could be simply mistakes, such as the multiworm being listed as 90k and 15k, which is (according to Apoc'd) 9k and 15k; yet others are so different that it cannot have been a simple typo. Is there something I am missing? [[User:Talon81|Talon81]] 23:30, 18 November 2009 (EST)
: Looking at it the Hyperworm, Multiworm Egg and the Multiworm seem to have all typos. The original poster that added the skill hours was Blaimjos but he doesn't mentioned his source. Either he got it from one of the forums or from the Official Strategy Guide. Can you check with Apoc'd all of the values that don't match? [[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 05:57, 19 November 2009 (EST)
:: Yeah, I noticed those ones seem to be typos. I have only been around this wiki for at most a year, and only on Apoc wiki for a couple months. I didn't want to be presumptuous in making major edits, but I have fixed a few things here and there. Anyway, I am going to edit all of them to match Apoc'd now, and you can review my changes and undo anything you know to be wrong... but I am pretty certain Apoc'd is correct.[[User:Talon81|Talon81]] 14:00, 19 November 2009 (EST)
::: Modesty is a virtue but don't let it restrain you from doing edits if the information is incorrect or outdated. No one here holds the truth... perhaps someone will come in a year and tell us that Apoc'd values are all wrong :) [[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 14:42, 19 November 2009 (EST)
:::: BLASPHEMY!!! :-) [[User:J'ordos|J&#39;ordos]] 07:02, 20 November 2009 (EST)
::::: Thus speaks the god J'ordos... we will all feel his wrath and anger now! ;) [[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 11:32, 20 November 2009 (EST)
::Sorry I'm not a regular contributor.  My interest is usually tied to when I'm playing the game.  My reference source was my now yellowing strategy guide.  I've found some mistakes over 12+ years but didn't know about Apoc'd and figured more was better than less.  I'll try to include my reference in the future.  Thanks for seeing enough value to correct rather than revert!![[User:Blaimjos|Blaimjos]] 20:59, 6 December 2009 (EST)
::: No need to feel bad. There is so much conflicting information coming from different sources, and as it turns out just because its official doesnt make it correct. In any case, I wouldn't have corrected something that wasn't there to begin with, so your help is appreciated. ;-) [[User:Talon81|Talon81]] 18:21, 7 December 2009 (EST)
:::: Yup, what Talon says about the official not being correct already happens with the UFO Defense Official Strategy Guide where some of the info contained there didn't match what people found when looking around in the code of the game. It is nice to have someone with the Apocalypse OSG since most of the info will be correct but that's why it is good to have different sources in order to confirm it. [[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 20:51, 7 December 2009 (EST)

Playing through again after all these years after buying on Steam. Noticed that I can research The Alien Genetic Structure, even though I've only researched live Multiworm Egg, Live & Autopsy Multiworm, and BS launcher. It's also researchable in Standard labs, not just Advanced. --[[User:KayDat|KayDat]] 10:58, 2 March 2010 (EST)
: I am seeing the same on steam - I researched brainsucker launcher, Hyperworm autopsy, multiworm and multiworm autopsy, and poof there it is.  I think it may just be a requirement of "4 alien biochem" or "3 live alien or autopsy projects" that triggers it, instead of the specific ones we've been told here.  --[[User:Alloutwar|Alloutwar]] ([[User talk:Alloutwar|talk]]) 13:43, 9 January 2016 (EST)

== Re: second small lab ==

I don't think a second small lab is particularly useful. These are the topics you need to research in order to get Toxin B: Multiworm, Multiworm Autopsy, Hyperworm, Hyperworm Autopsy, Chrysalis, Chrysalis Autopsy, Advanced Biochemistry Lab, The Alien Genetic Structure, The Alien Life Cycle, Biological Warfare, Toxin Type B. Advanced Biochemistry Lab requires any of the live or autopsied aliens, Biological Warfare requires a built Advanced Biochemistry Lab, and Toxin Type B requires Biological Warfare, making those inherently sequential (and thus a second lab wouldn't help), and the 8-day wait for the large lab to build is roughly 80,000 skill hours, while everything else outside that sequence totals only 99,000-108,000 (depending on which alien you researched to unlock the large lab). At most, a second lab's going to save you a little over a day in getting Toxin B - and the headstart on Toxin C is irrelevant, because your lab will run out of projects before Megaspawn and Psimorphs show up. I plan to remove this advice, unless someone objects (a second small QP lab, on the other hand, is a pretty good idea, as you're absolutely swamped with projects once Transporters show up, and relatively few require an advanced lab). [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] ([[User talk:Magic9mushroom|talk]]) 16:01, 26 August 2018 (CEST)

: I'm with you here. There's no need to rush biochemistry. I suppose a second lab would be useful were you to artificially advance alien tech through excessive early raids. Having Anthropods suddenly deploying with shields would make access to the toxigun desirable. This is not a typical playthrough experience. [[User:NKF|NKF]] ([[User talk:NKF|talk]]) 09:42, 27 August 2018 (CEST)

Even then, a second small lab still isn't going to help much because of that wait for the advanced bio-lab to build. As I said, the most you can get out of a second lab is a day's headstart on Toxin B (and no effect on Toxin A or C). But whatever, we agree on the main point. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] ([[User talk:Magic9mushroom|talk]]) 10:47, 27 August 2018 (CEST)

== Suggested Research Path ==
I'd make a few changes to the suggested research path:
# Prioritize the cheaper Hyperworm or Chrysalis over the Multiworm if available to get the Advanced Biochemistry Lab on its way a couple hours (and thus possibly a whole day) earlier.
# Move The Alien Genetic Structure right after the Advanced Biochemistry Lab and the first Hyperworm/Multiworm Autopsy so that Biological Warfare is guaranteed to be available as soon as the Advanced Biochemistry Lab is built.
# Then research Biological Warfare ASAP even if the remaining live/autopsy requirements for The Alien Life Cycle aren't finished yet, so that engineers can begin with Toxigun production for agents and profit.
# Finally move on with The Alien Life Cycle and its requirements to reach Toxin B.
Overall this would result in more of a priority list than a chronological order, where players might be forced to research later topics in the list before higher-listed ones show up depending on availability. Since the goal of an optimized research path is to minimize the time until Toxigun and Toxin B production, this might be worth it though. This would also put emphasis on the importance of researching concept and tech topics over just looking into alien organisms and autopsies, as those are just a means to an end. (In my first play-through years ago, I made the mistake of curiously researching all available aliens and autopsies before diving any deeper. This meant I didn't have Toxiguns for a long time and made the game harder than necessary for a beginner.) Opinions? [[User:Silentium|Silentium]] ([[User talk:Silentium|talk]]) 17:23, 15 December 2021 (CET)