= What Happened to First Alien War Weapons ? =

Is there any reasonable excuse why we can't use good old Heavy Plasma, or any weapon from First Alien War, on land combat? [[User:L-Zwei|L-Zwei]] 23:44, 25 July 2006 (PDT)

----

I have been wondering that myself. Let's see: X-Com operatives are required to prepare for undersea combat, regardless the original destination of their transport. A commander may decide to send a midair Triton undersea, and as soon as the doors are opened, any non water proof equipment inside would be damaged. That's also the reason why soldiers take their diver suits on land. It's not that good of an excuse, but it's something. --[[User:Trotsky|Trotsky]] 01:50, 26 July 2006 (PDT)

----

If you could use the Plasmas, then why not the craft engines? My bet is the Elerium mines weren't set up at that point, meaning there was nothing to power these devices with.

- [[User:Bomb Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] 02:56, 26 July 2006 (PDT)

:The official story goes thus: sea water aggressively corrodes Elerium (and by extension anything made from alien alloy), and plasma weapons EXPLODE when fired underwater, as some unlucky scientists found out. Microprose released a couple short stories before the launch of TFTD to explain the backstory that closed the gap between the two episodes, and the technological issues were briefly hinted at --[[User:KJK::Hyperion|KJK::Hyperion]] 15:14, 17 April 2007 (PDT)

----

The economy argument seems more plausible. Once the war was finished, there would be no reason not to sell recovered Elerium for use as power source, especially since X-Com was disbanded shortly after.--[[User:Trotsky|Trotsky]] 11:05, 26 July 2006 (PDT)

----

Plus Elerium was consumed by research on interstellar travel.

As a side note, the Gauss weapons aren't as bad as many say. For example, people also say lasers are bad, although a Laser Rifle can kill a Muton in one hit. Why people doesn't like it? Because there are better weapons (plasma). Same with Gauss: people use Sonic instead because of the higher damage. I personally prefer the Gauss's accuracy and one-shot-one-kill technique. Plus if you get in close range and miss a snapshot, you will be killed by reaction fire. However, a point-blank Gauss auto is too strong to survive and too fast to counter.

On the other hand, Gauss weapons are a bit more... realistic. Small pistols which fire a sonic wave with sniper-level accuracy over the map? Come on... Plus you can distinguish yourself from the aliens by not using mainstay alien equipment :D--[[User:Amitakartok|amitakartok]] 15:00, 11 November 2008 (CST)

:Fluff stories released by Microprose indicate that the Funding Nations basically divvied up X-COM 16 ways after the war, including all resources, and wasted most of it(including Elerium, to the point that they sent X-COM down to UFOs that crashed in the ocean to try and find more. This is when they learned that both Elerium is rendered inert by sea water, and Alien Alloys DISSOLVE in it.)

:As for Gauss/Sonic, well, I've had a Tasoth kill a trooper with reaction after soaking up 3 Auto shots from a Pistol. I understand the difference though, and it is a issue of personal choice. Whether you get more shots in a small time frame or less shots but more power. Of course, there is something that offers both power and speed...and it's immensely satisfying sometimes to just run up to the aliens and fight them with power tools! (Idly, a Muton with 125 HP cannot be 1-shotted by a Laser Rifle, since LR damage maxes out at 120.) [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 18:33, 11 November 2008 (CST)

:: Lobstermen. First time I ever met one, I emptied all of my gauss and harpoons into it and got royally slaughtered. Much fun. Gauss weapons are near useless against them - and perhaps the main reason why you must have sonic or power tool support by the time you meet them.

:: By the way, players are split down two camps with regards to the weapons in UFO. There's the ever present Laser Rifle vs. Heavy Plasma debate that always flares up from time to time. Both weapons are jolly good in their own respect (I'm in the arm-laser-rifle-on-Skyranger-but-pick-up-HPs-in-Combat-when-necessary camp) so there's no loss of love for the laser weapons.

:: TFTD's gauss weapons lost a lot of favour with their ammo requirements. I don't mind that at all - I adore the gauss pistol and its massive (and cheap) 20 round clip. However their (the Gauss weapons in general) loss in effectiveness against enemies with lots of external armour (large units) and the lobstermen do hurt them quite a bit. Absolutely essential weapons to get at the start of the game though unless you stick to the Gas Cannon - which is awesome but you've got to be careful with the ammo levels.

:: I've always been intrigued by the idea of alien alloys melting in salt water. How fast though? I keep getting these funny mental images of soldiers in Power Suits being air dropped into salt water, and then having them trudge up onto a desert island with their suits melting away to expose their jumpsuit underneath. Recently added the image of water squirting out of the cracks. - [[User:NKF|NKF]] 22:56, 11 November 2008 (CST)

:It's not quite that fast, but the [http://www.xcomufo.com/stories/moray.html fluff from Microprose ] indicates that in the time period of "over a year" in the seawater(so 12-23 months), the navigation consoles of a Large Scout have melted into "silvery goo", as well as eaten away enough of the hull for craft to flood. They found some inert and ruined Elerium in a Plasma Rifle; the power source was gone(ejected before impact, according to the story). So while the scenario you gave isn't exactly accurate, it would happen over time. Enough to seriously degrade a Power Suit over a period of months, if not weeks. If the Power Source leaked, the whole suit would stop functioning in short order as well. And to boot, there isn't any Elerium left to power the things anyways. (Although we must not forget the simply out-of-game reason for all of this: X-COM 2 would be way the hell too easy if you could use Plasma weapons and Flying Suits off the bat). [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 23:15, 11 November 2008 (CST)

= Favourite Weapon Mix =

OK, what's your favourite weapon mix and progression in TFTD? Here's mine (based on limited play):

== Starting Weapons ==

* Stock up on HydroJet Cannon (HJCs) and Gas Cannon (GCs), enough for ''every'' Aquanaut (15 or so of each).
* Get a healthy supply of regular grenades, and some explosives and disturbance mines. This is just to tide you over until you research Sonic Pulsers.
* As soon as the extra Gas Cannons arrive, sell all the Dart Guns and Jet Harpoons. The only reason not to sell these right away is in case you have an early land mission (unlikely).
* Sell Dye Grenades right away, they are rubbish.
* Don't bother with flares. HJC-IC clips create light multiple times, at greater range and less TUs, for the same space/item limit.
* For water missions, equip mostly HJCs, with some GCs as heavy weapons. Carry mostly AP for the HJCs, an even mix of HE and AP for GCs.
* For land missions, carry all GCs and mostly AP rounds - designated heavy weapons units should chamber HE and carry both types.
* GCs with AP are your "tank-busters". Even on an underwater mission, carry more GCs if you expect tough (armoured) opposition. If you are not sure what to expect, bring enough spare GCs to switch up to half of your Aquanauts to GCs.
* Regular grenades are most useful for attacks where you can't get a line of sight, which is a common situation in many TFTD terrain types. Due to the weak power of the regular grenade, against targets in the open, an HE round fired from a GC or HJC is usually more efficient.
* I'm not convinced the Torpedo Launcher is worth bringing in any quantity. Its warhead is not sufficiently stronger than GC-HE to make it worth while. I would carry 2 at most in a sub. Even less useful once you have Sonic Pulsers - obsolete in fact.

== Progression ==

* If the absolute priority was winning battles, I would research the Sonic Pulser first, as the quickest way to equalise firepower with the enemy. It will make short work of targets that you would struggle to kill even with Heavy Gauss, so it's a great leap forward. However, relying on Pulsers does not leave much booty left on the battlefield, so it can hurt your finances. Nor is it a terribly safe tactic for rescuing civilians!
* So for economic reasons I prefer to start down the Gauss route asap. This provides a steady stream of finesseful weapons of steadily increasing power. It also sets you up for profitable manufacture.
* Nonetheless by the time Tasoths start showing up you will need (well OK, ''I'' need) Sonic guns to deal with them without incurring heavy losses.
* Or Thermal Shok Launchers, which are quicker to research and have other advantages. Maybe a better choice. (I believe these also help with Lobstermen, though I've never got far enough to see one. )
* Particle Sensors can also be a good re-equaliser if you are often outgunned and on the defensive (as I always seem to be). Plus they are a good profit making item. So, a good early research choice.
* Medi-Kits and Armour - Nah, just encourages your Aquanauts to be careless. Who wants to live forever anyway? ;)

OK that's my mix, what's yours?
[[User:Spike|Spike]] 13:16, 12 November 2008 (CST)

=Complete Weapon Rebalancing?=

I'm sure it's obvious to many that the TFTD weapons aren't exactly balanced. Some weapons serve [[Dart Gun|no purpose]] [[Dye Grenade|at all]], while others are [[Sonic Cannon|overpowered]] almost to the point of being broken. Especially annoying is the rounded numbers used in every stat for the weapon.

A friend suggested doing a mod(either by a single hex-edited weapons file which could be manually pasted in, which I could make myself, or an actual automated program, which someone else would have to make) where the weapons were rebalanced a bit. So I'm just opening up the discussion for people to voice opinions on. Would anyone be interested? What ideas do you have? [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 18:15, 19 December 2008 (CST)

: I don't mind how some of the plain vanilla weapons are balanced too much. Some of them are actually quite good.

: As for the broken weapons like the dart gun. If it were rebalanced - perhaps something closer to the UFO pistol, then all will be right again in the world. The jet harpoon only really needs more ammo.

: Another weapon that needs some attention is the magna pack explosive. In UFO there wasn't an ultimate grenade. Instead, you had a choice between the heavier High Explosive for more firepower, or the alien grenades that were lighter and dealt mid-weight damage. In TFTD, Sonic pulsers are THE grenade, and you will probably never use the Magna Packs except when you're on a tight budget. Perhaps the Magna-Pack could be revitalized by setting it to 150 damage and weigh it down by 9 units. (that's 3 weight units per 50HE).

: The Sonic Blasta rifle could do with some changes. It only excels at being average and doesn't really stand out. One way to balance the cannon and rifle at the same time would be to simply swap the accuracy levels round. The sonic cannon is overpowered, but you only get so many shots and it takes forever to fire. Making them a bit less accurate would even things up. If damage levels do need to be changed, don't forget to factor in the increased armor levels of the TFTD suits. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 18:46, 19 December 2008 (CST)

Perhaps one way to make the Sonic Blasta Rifle stand out is to give it something no other Sonic weapon has: Auto fire. In order to balance, it'd have to be very expensive in TUs(possibly 70-80%) or have poor accuracy(maybe a combo of both), but it would make it stand out in the field. (I'd considered dropping the damage down, but that means the aliens can't use it effectively, which is bad.) ;) [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 19:14, 19 December 2008 (CST)

=Proposed weapon infobox=
<pre>
{{Infobox open}}
{{Infobox module/keyfeatures
| features =
*
| pros =
*
| cons =
*
}}
|-
| colspan="4" |
{{Infobox module/weapon
| weapon =
| height =
| width =
| weight =
| weaponimage =
| acc_auto =
| acc_snap =
| acc_aim =
| fcost_auto =
| fcost_snap =
| fcost_aim =
| saleprice =
| research =
| mfccost =
| techhours =
| wkspc =
| materials =
}}
{{Infobox module/ammo
| weapon =
| ammo =
| height =
| width =
| weight =
| ammoimage =
| damage =
| capacity =
| saleprice =
| research =
| mfccost =
| techhours =
| wkspc =
| materials =
}}
{{Infobox close}}
</pre>
[[User:Madned|Madned]] 16:43, 28 December 2010 (EST)

: I'm thinking that the pro/con box should probably be left separate from the stat-box and be used simply as a quick summary for the descriptive text - either before or after. Partly to simplify the stat box. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 17:34, 28 December 2010 (EST)

:: samples of two styles [[Sonic-Blasta Rifle]]: key-feature section leading description, [[Gauss Pistol]] integrated in infobox. [[User:Madned|Madned]] 00:56, 29 December 2010 (EST)

:::Dunno what resolutions you guys are running, but at 1024x768 the box is a bit overbearing. Other then that it looks quite good to me; but perhaps if it were to span across the page horizontally, and be positioned under the "flavour" text at the top of the page? Dunno. - <span style="font-size:xx-small"> [[User:Bomb_Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] ([[User_talk:Bomb_Bloke|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Bomb_Bloke|Contribs]])</span> 06:35, 29 December 2010 (EST)

:::: I'm also using 1024x768, but the page area on my browser window's is actually smaller than that since I have the bookmark panel open, and everything is running together very tightly. Perhaps all that needs to be done is replace the bulleted list with the table where they currently reside. It would give more flexibility with the spacing of the contents and the cells. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 09:02, 29 December 2010 (EST)

:::1280x1024 here. I suspect the color scheme could use some work too. lemme rig up a lateral variant. [[Sonic Pistol]], another thought is to drop the infobox below the official blurb so they don't knock heads so much. [[User:Madned|Madned]] 19:21, 29 December 2010 (EST)

::::I looked at it using 1280x800 and 1280x1024. I must say I definitely prefere the sidebox variants(Gauss Pistol, Sonic Rifle in that order) - it looks more organized that way. And it is what is used in the english wikipedia to present a general overview and numbers(e.g. for military engagements or similar topics). --[[User:Tauon|Tauon]] 05:57, 30 December 2010 (EST)

The wide version looks good, and the borderless key feature box does look spiffy. What about right-aligning the feature box off to the side of the descriptive blurb?

As for the colour scheme for the stat box, perhaps you could trial using the same scheme as nav-box. It's lighter and easier on the eyes. The navbox uses the stdTable and stdTable Sub_Heading templates for its formatting. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 19:49, 29 December 2010 (EST)

Talk:Subs

2010-12-22T23:27:58Z

Tauon:

I think the Hammerhead costs more than the Manta. Can we check this? [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 04:35, 19 August 2009 (EDT)

:I checked it in-game before I amended the post. I tried to build a Hammerhead and a Manta, and it is the Manta that costs more. But someone else should double check in case I got it wrong. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 11:26, 19 August 2009 (EDT)

::I checked. Indeed you are correct. How odd. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 03:33, 20 August 2009 (EDT)

:::Looks odd, but I guess in one way of thinking, the Manta is the superior interception sub while the Hammerhead(awesome lil ship, by the way) only provides a lesser transportation role, being a mini Leviathan. Its interception role is greatly weakened by having the shortest operational time and range of all the subs despite the good acceleration. My opinion says it should be the more expensive because it's a specialty craft, but perhaps the higher Manta price was to make the player spend more money on ships that they might use more. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 04:00, 20 August 2009 (EDT)

OTOH, the Hammerhead does better against the Dreadnaught (more than twice as much HP), and unlike the Lightning in UFO, is actually useful because of the Lobbie Commander required to get the Leviathan. The Manta's improved over the Firestorm, but the Hammerhead's far more improved over the Lightning. And the Lightning costs more than the Firestorm in UFO.

Oh, and by the way, the Hammerhead has a bigger range than the Manta. Twice the fuel capacity and not much less speed.

Ah well, not like 20 Aqua Plastics and a bit of money matter anyway at that stage of the game. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 05:07, 20 August 2009 (EDT)

The Hammerhead is faster to build and has a higher chance of success when taking on a dreadnaught singlehandedly than a manta - making it a great throw-away interceptor against those pesky very large subs in the later stages of the game. One might even consider using it as standard interceptor instead of the manta. 12 aquanauts are also usually enough to deal with any recovery mission.--[[User:Tauon|Tauon]] 18:27, 22 December 2010 (EST)

== Why no air intercept? ==

Due to various reasons, X-COM flying-subs are forbidden from engaging enemy ships in air-to-air combat while flying over dry land.

What are the 'various' reasons, do tell? Because it uses the same code base as EU, with air combat being replaced by water combat? Because flying subs only carry underwater weapons? (Why?) Are there any reasons given in-game or in canonical materials that give an explanation or rationalisation for what is, basically, pretty weird? [[User:Spike|Spike]] 16:27, 28 October 2010 (BST)

User:Tauon

2010-12-17T09:51:48Z

Tauon: Fun with the standard controls

Personal Armour

2010-12-13T11:22:22Z

Tauon: Removed spam links

Making use of the curiously resilient and ultra light [[Alien Alloys |alloys]] that compose almost the entirety of the UFO hulls, the Beaker heads have been able to cook up a relatively simple but highly protective suit of armour in their laboratory habitats. This new suit of armour rivals even standard kevlar combat armour in terms of effectiveness. It can be built once Alien Alloys is researched.

Basically the suit is a black full body suit with alloy plates slipped in to protect vital areas. Various guards moulded from Alien Alloys provide additional protection to areas such as the shoulders and hips, they also supply some pocket space for a suit that, when you get down to it, isn't quite designed for pockets.

The relatively simple and cost effective construction of Personal Armour allows some X-COM Commanders to introduce the suits as standard issue equipment very quickly. But more importantly, it's a good excuse for engineers to get rid of that often gigantic mound of Alien Alloys that tends to accumulate in storage.

Scientists are planning on designing a heavier and bulkier variety of armour that offers double the protection and introduces mechanical enhancements to aid movement under the additional bulk. Refer to the [[Power Suit]] project for more information, and the [[Flying Suit]] project for the planned anti-gravity enhancements that allows flight.

This armor is used in ''[[X-COM|UFO: Enemy Unknown]]''. In ''[[TFTD|Terror from the Deep]]'', the [[Plastic Aqua Armor]] is the equivalent.

== Statistics ==
<center>
<table {{StdCenterTable}} width="30%">
<tr {{StdDescTable_Heading}}><th>Facing</th>
<th>Protection</th></tr>
<tr><td>Front</td><td>50</td></tr>
<tr><td>Right</td><td>40</td></tr>
<tr><td>Left</td><td>40</td></tr>
<tr><td>Rear</td><td>30</td></tr>
<tr><td>Under</td><td>30</td></tr>
</table>
</center>
Any soldier wearing Personal Armour or better will be completely immune to the effects of fire -- but a [[Power Suit]] or better is needed against [[stun]] damage from smoke.

==Images==
[[Image:PersonalArmour.gif|Personal Armour]]

==See also==
[[Coveralls]]<br>
[[Power Suit]]<br>
[[Flying Suit]]

{{Equipment (UFO Defense) Navbar}}
[[Category:Armour]]
[[Category:Research (EU)]]

Talk:Ship Rescue Mission

2010-12-01T19:59:59Z

Tauon:

So, I've spent about sixty turns on the upper-deck part of one of these missions, and I've swept the damn ship from front to back from the bridge on down (and then back up).

I've tagged every single alien I've seen, either for a kill or a knockout, and it still won't let me move on to the next part of the mission.

Should I just drag all the dead aliens and their gear back to the Triton and give the mission up as a bad job, or what?

--[[User:Guido Talbot|Guido Talbot]] 12:06, 13 August 2010 (EDT)

: That is certainly one option. If you can get away with escaping with a positive score, or a very light negative score then don't treat it as a failure.

: One possibility is that the game stuffed up at map creation and there's an alien trapped in a solid wall - and many of the walls in ships are indestructible. I have had an occasion to help another player troubleshoot this exact problem, and a terror unit, Xarquid I think, was found trapped in an inaccessible area near the storage room at the front of the ship where all the props like the statues are kept on the pleasure cruiser. I don't know if it's an occasional problem with the game or if any mods are responsible for this, but if you have XComutil, it should be all right to use it to reveal the location of the last alien on the map and kill/stun it. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 15:58, 13 August 2010 (EDT)

:: I've seen a Bio Drone hiding in a 1x1 room behind a door before. And I've heard tell of unreachable bad guys behind solid walls. I agree with NKF, use XComUtil to track down the last baddie. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 17:00, 15 August 2010 (EDT)

== Alien deployment ==
There seems to be a wide variety whats is possible with these, Today I encountered one that was so strange that I had to run XCOMutil over it to see what I'm facing. Superhuman difficulty, unmodified game version 2.1, 2040.04.01 09:51, battlescape turn 2, 1st upperdeck part.
Aquatoid: 3, Dead: 1
Tasoth: 8
Bio-Drone: 5
Triscene: 2
Xarquid: 1
Civilian Male: 5, Dead: 3
Its rather early for a mixed and a mix of 3 different terror units is uncommon.

Talk:TFTD Strategy Guide

2010-11-30T03:08:04Z

Tauon: alternate starting suggestion

Talk:Hallucinoid

2010-11-25T23:05:32Z

Tauon: possible to fix the Hallucinoid ranged attack

The comments in [[Overviews of Aliens (TFTD)#Hallucinoid - Terror Unit]] say that this unit just attacks

: ''"with its tentacles which do precicely [sic] nothing, while completely ignoring its built-in Thermal Shok Launcher"''

I did some testing on this and I could not reproduce that result. My results were:

# The Hallucinoid does seem to have a preference to close for short range attacks
# Its melee attack seems to be lethal against unarmoured Aquanauts
# Its long range attack is definitely used (though perhaps melee is preferred if there are targets nearby)
# The long range attack is also lethal against unarmoured Aquanauts
# Neither of these attacks do stun damage - or if they do, they still contain enough lethal damage to be fatal

Does anyone know the basis for these comments in the Overview? If not I propose to remove them.
[[User:Spike|Spike]] 14:13, 15 November 2008 (CST)

: It should be Melee type damage. The freeze bit is just fluff text in the ufopaedia, otherwise your units will just be knocked out rather than killed outright. To confirm if it's got a ranged attack, it's probably worth making a savegame with a hallucinoid present and check the unitref.dat entry to see if it has an associated turret attached to it. Otherwise it's effectively no more than a flying Reaper - a brutal one at that if it manages to catch you, plus it has fairly good protection to round it off. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 14:36, 15 November 2008 (CST)

Thanks for your help NKF. It definitely has a ranged attack, I saw the 'freeze bolt' or whatever it is travelling six squares to hit and kill my (previously uninjured) Aquanaut. I'm not quite sure if its definitely using the tentacles at melee range, or just firing its ranged weapon at point blank. I don't believe the ranged attack is an area effect (as implied by "Built in Thermal Shok Launcher) but I'll check that by offering it multiple targets at once. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 14:56, 15 November 2008 (CST)

: The ranged attack is definitely not area effect. It uses an icon that looks similar to a plasma bolt from XCOM-EU. It looks like it has autofire capability - either that or it just likes to fire at corpses. I'm not sure if anyone knows where these alien built in weapon definitions are located in TFTD? [[User:Spike|Spike]] 15:32, 15 November 2008 (CST)

I've changed the Overview article to remove the claims about ineffectiveness. It's still possible that this alien is ineffective, IF your Aquanauts armour levels are sufficiently high. I was only testing with unarmoured Aquanauts and the Hallucinoid had no difficulty killing them at long range, at melee range, and pursuing them to attack them and finish them off. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 06:12, 14 December 2008 (CST)

UPDATE - as per Zombie's investigations, the ranged attack only works on land and not underwater. This is probably a programming error and was meant to be the other way round. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 15:49, 25 February 2009 (CST)
: Is it really not working at all or just as effective as the Bio-Drohne melee attack?--[[User:Tauon|Tauon]] 22:52, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Is it possible to fix the unit that the ranged attack works as intended? That would make alien colony missions much more challenging - especially the first part. And artefact, battleship and dreadnought missions as well - right now the difference to gillman for the later is not too big for the two uso missions. --[[User:Tauon|Tauon]] 23:05, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Hallucinoid

2010-11-25T22:52:43Z

Tauon:

Talk:Bio-Drone

2010-11-25T22:48:55Z

Tauon: Created page with " == Strength of explosion upon death == What is the strength and radius of explosion triggered when the Bio-Drone dies? Same as cyberdisc ?"

== Strength of explosion upon death ==
What is the strength and radius of explosion triggered when the Bio-Drone dies? Same as cyberdisc ?

User:Tauon

2010-11-15T00:30:19Z

Tauon: Intercepting Dreadnoughts

2010-11-08T14:16:38Z

User:Tauon

2010-11-04T11:06:43Z

Tauon:

User talk:Spike

2010-11-04T00:21:37Z

Talk:TFTD Strategy Guide

2010-10-12T12:10:01Z

Tauon:

Talk:Alien Colony Attack Mission

2010-10-11T22:58:44Z

Tauon:

Alien Colony Assault? Evil!

Don't get hurt, don't get mind controlled, do take it thorough, do throw flares like hot potatoes, do take 30!!!! Don't hand-to-hand Tentaculats, do take 14 soldiers (or more). DO NOT go unless you have [[Thermic Lance]] and MC knowledge and Disruptor Pulse Launcher, and do edit this post!

*If you don't have the Thermic Lance and/or DPLs, take Thermal Tazers. Rush the lift, taking out as many aliens as you can (particularly the lift garrison), and be very, very sneaky in the second part - avoid contact as much as possible, stay out of the Lobstermen's line of sight, and whack them from behind with the Thermal Tazers if you can. Also, '''Ion Armour'''. Bare minimum protection, Ion Armour.

== Loot and tactics ==

It is possible to hunt down every single Alien in both stages and dismantle the base without destroying the symonium device. The loot is similar to a dismantled Artefact site.
However this is by no means an easy feat(harder and more annoying then a ship lane mission where you can at least systematically comb the level.).
The first stage(surface) which always has a similar layout can be considered a warm up. Consider putting one alien unter constant MC while you deal with the rest. Then collect the ammunition to use it during the second stage. Kill the last alien to proceed.

The second stage is the ultimate tactical nightmare. There are 4 levels. Each has a 5x5 (or was it 6x6) basic grid - 2nd stage layout is random. Some modules cover more then one square/cell of the basic grid. The are plenty of interconnections between the levels. So if you form a search line and sweep one level enemies can move in our rear by changing the level using an elevator, stairs or a hole in the ground. Clear level 1 put aquanaut in each cell and then simultaneously move to level 2? Good ideas if there were not these cells/modules which can not be declared clean by one glance because they contain small closets or secondary walls which divide the cell in away that a aquanaut needs a lot of its TU to move from one half to the next and/or secondary walls forming long narrow corridors along the wall - I think you get the picture - perfect tentaculat territory. In my experience these secondary walls limit the usefulness of DPL. It tears down the secondary walls but not everything is rubble if a DPL torpedo hits the center of a room. So even with the large supply pillaged from the first stage one finds oneself hard pressed to shell everything(in order to clean out the obstacles and an tentaculats and soften up the lobsters). This tactic also greatly diminishes you loot. So usually I find my scouts trailing behind my lobster or tentaculat pet going from room to room killing all additional aliens I come across, or switching them for my pet and killing it when its energy runs too low. Meanwhile the MCs huddle together in the staging areas only contributing to the killing with an occasional DPL strike if the situation calls for it. Which it rarely does since it is usually more efficient in terms of TU to take over the offending Alien(s) and have the scout drill it/them later or have them shoot each other.
Try to reveal the entire base. Any aliens left at that time should be close to panicking which might help to locate them. However expect the entire endeavor to take plenty of time. If anyone has a good plan/system for a systematic sweep I would be most interested in it.

For the 80 starting items I would mainly pack MC disruptors, tazers/drills, medikits, maybe 2 flares. Everything else can be picked up from the alien corpses. I'm not masochistic enough to attempt a base recovery without 10 MC troopers(MCstr 80+,MCsk 80-100+, TU 75+) and everyone else featuring MCstr 70+. But there is a chance to win every battle(single soldier, termal tazer, no offensiv MC use, diving suit, no reload anyone ;) ) --[[User:Tauon|Tauon]] 18:58, 11 October 2010 (EDT)

Talk:TFTD Strategy Guide

2010-10-11T20:28:48Z

Tauon:

Talk:Known Bugs (TFTD)

2010-10-11T19:13:06Z

Tauon:

=More Unconscious Bugs=

OK maybe TFTD is just plain buggy. This may be related to the Mind Controlled units MIA bug. What I saw was:

* All human units are killed or stunned, but the game does not end, a Coelecanth keeps working (this is a bug right?). I ran the Coelecanth for at least 4 more turns, with all Aquanauts either dead or stunned.
* If I saved and restored this game with the Coelecanth, on the first restored turn I had no units. I could not use the Units menu, the Next Unit button, or the Centre on Unit button. Nothing. After letting the aliens move for one turn, I could see my Coelecanth again.
* If I aborted this mission with the Coelecanth in the ship, as expected it says "Submarine Lost" and the stunned crew - who had been placed aboard the Triton - do not make it back to base.
* However, one of the stunned crew members does make it back to base. The stunned crew were all psi weak but some were stunned whilst under alien mind control, others were not - they were just panicked. I'm not sure if the crew member who teleported back to base was mind controlled or just (morale) panicked. But I would guess he was panicked, since most of them were mind controlled.
* When this crew member gets back to base he is shown as being assigned to craft called "Weapon-1" (since the craft he was assigned to no longer exists). Since this craft doesn't exist, there is no way to unassign him from it. Even if I had a new Triton I doubt I would be able to assign him to it. Shame he wasn't injured!
* Like in a similar incident I saw before, the affected Aquanaut was the first in the list and also the most senior rank. So that ''might'' be a factor.
* In this underwater mission I saw that the Hallucinoid's melee attack definitely works, and is lethal against unarmoured Aquanauts. The melee attack is ineffective against a Coelecanth (with XComUtil improved tank armour I think). I saw no evidence of its ranged attack working, ever, despite many opportunities. It may be possible that (like the HJ Cannon on land), the Hallucinoid's ranged attack might be able to reaction-fire underwater. I didn't do enough to test this, I might try that later.
[[User:Spike|Spike]] 14:08, 8 August 2009 (EDT)

I got this situation:
Was on a ship attack mission (passenger ship). On the 2nd level, at the lift (big room with crates), one of my soldiers got MC'd while still standing on the lift. He shot a thermal shok bomb and became unconscious (while MC'd). He remained unconscious until I eliminated all aliens, waiting patiently on the lift. Now, the game didn't notify me about a dead or MIA agent, but he disappeared from my aquanauts list. Dunno what was the cause of this misbehaviour.
[[User:mingos|mingos]]

: I imagine it's the bug Zombie reported [[Exploiting_Mind_Control#Zombie.27s_Permanent_Control_of_Aliens_via_Stunning|here]] in reverse - your dude turned into an alien. He didn't count as MC'd (so no MIA message), and he didn't count as dead (so no DIA message either). That bug - and the others on the same page - really should be documented on the "master lists"... - [[User:Bomb Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] 02:45, 4 December 2009 (EST)

So... If I applied stimulant on him, he'd be hostile for one turn and then magically return to my team, I assume. Damn, all this stunned/revived/MC'd/un-MC'd and the mixtures thereof are really weird. Multiple bugs at play... [[User:mingos|mingos]]]

:Seb76's loader fixes all the mind control / unconscious bugs. These bugs have many different manifestations. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 14:05, 8 December 2009 (EST)

== Gill-men reported as Snakemen ==

I get these interesting bugs playing TFTD. A Gill-man corpse is described as a Snakeman corpse. And I get messages saying "Snakeman soldier has panicked", "Snakeman soldier has gone Berserk", when the Gillmen have morale failures. Now the game I'm running using XComUtil, and these Gill-men were created by using XComUtil REPlace command, changing them from Aquatoids and Tasoths. So this may be a fluke. Has anyone else ever noticed this? [[User:Spike|Spike]] 17:27, 8 August 2009 (EDT)

:It's due to XcomUtil. There isn't a string containing "Snakeman" (or any variant thereof) in ENGLISH.DAT, ENGLISH2.DAT or even the executable. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 19:45, 8 August 2009 (EDT)

==Survey Ship v. Escort==
The Survey Ship and Escort are not interchanged on the battlescape. The sub that comes up matches the UFOpaedia entry and the picture that pops up during interception. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 04:31, 21 August 2009 (EDT)

: Not sure what you mean exactly. I would expect that during Interception it would look like an Escort, but when you shoot it down you see a small 1 room craft (Survey Ship) on the Battlescape map but the expected large crew and loadout from an Escort. And vice versa. Is this not what you see? [[User:Spike|Spike]] 16:17, 21 August 2009 (EDT)

No. When you shoot an Escort down the picture (although not the size of the blob) matches the design of what you term a Survey Ship, the 1 room craft. When you shoot down a Survey Ship the picture (though again, not the size of the blob) matches the larger, 3 room craft. Which is also confirmed by the UFOpaedia entries. The UFOpaedia entry for the Survey Ship looks like the larger craft and the UFOpaedia entry for the Escort looks like the smaller craft.

So the sub seen on the battlescape matches the sub picture seen during interception and the sub picture in the UFOpaedia. There's no switching in the Battlescape relative to the stuff seen in the interception window and UFOpaedia. It may be that the Survey Ship was intended to be the one-room craft (and indeed, this seems logical) but if that's the case, it's switched in all three. I checked and double-checked this. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 05:03, 22 August 2009 (EDT)

Ok this is interesting, you may have uncovered a general misunderstanding. It's been suggested before that maybe it's just the ''names'' that are switched.

I know you have double checked that you have never run XcomUtil or a map pack? Definitely a virgin install?

Do you still see a large crew on a small craft and a 1 man crew on the larger craft?

That the sonar blob size is wrong does suggest maybe a problem in the .exe rather than the map files.

[[User:Spike|Spike]] 05:47, 22 August 2009 (EDT)

:I don't even know how to use Xcomutil and have never downloaded it, so I can guarantee it's not been run on my Collector's Edition version.

: I see multiple aliens on the 1-room craft and 1 alien on the 3-room craft.

:I don't think the names are switched, since IIRC the Survey Ship still appears first and the Escort second in a mission. Besides, it'd have to be names ''and crew'' switched to make sense.

:The sonar blob size isn't wrong, it coincides with the reported size of the craft. Escorts are reported as Small while Survey Ships are reported as Very Small. The problem, however, is that that reported size doesn't agree with the actual size of the ships, although it does agree with their loadouts. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 05:57, 22 August 2009 (EDT)

:::Ok you have been very thorough on this. Let me try to summarise. The battlescape map, UFOpaedia picture and Interception window picture all agree in showing the Survey Ship as the larger of the two. The reported detection size, crew loadouts, spawn points, order of appearance, combat power, & sonar blob size all agree in showing the Escort as the larger. (We haven't looked at Mission types, a further clue.)

::: I think the most likely explanation is your earlier suggestion that all 3 "pictures" (map, intercept, UFOPaedia) were switched. Probably the last 2 are configured in the same place in the exe. As Zombie said, a miscommunication between different parts of the development team. Good investigative work! [[User:Spike|Spike]] 12:57, 22 August 2009 (EDT)

::::You two have convinced me that it is probably unintentional. I don't think it should be listed under bugs though, as it always happens and doesn't actually screw up the game or anything. It's a very odd state of affairs and one that should be listed on the pages for the ships though. I still think the Survey Ship and Escort pages should reflect what actually happens in-game, ie that we should have the bigger floor plans under Survey Ship and the smaller ones under Escort, along with listing the UFOpaedia pics as they're actually noted in-game. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 05:00, 23 August 2009 (EDT)

Magic9mushroom, your investigation has improved the understanding of this issue. It should definitely be flagged up on the wiki pages of both craft. And the other picture-swapping case, the supply ship, should also be flagged on the relevant wiki pages. I think both should be considered Bugs, as they are illogical / inconsistent and don't behave as a player would reasonably expect. It's not necessary that an issue is unpredictable, nor that it damage game play, to be called a bug. Most listed bugs are always repeatable, and quite a few arguably aid gameplay. So I think we should list these as bugs, add your additional findings, and update the craft wiki pages. I'm not sure if we should swap the pictures and descriptions on the wiki pages back to the unmodified state or not. I'm thinking it over. You're right that it's confusing to players who use the unmodified game. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 09:57, 23 August 2009 (EDT)

: I'll put my support for the motion that Wiki should present this information as per what players will find in an unmodified game. So if they see pictures of an apple in the Ufopaedia but find an Orange in the Battlescape instead, while the Ufopaedia Orange entry comes up with a Battlescape Apple, then let it be so, but also note that the objects have been unintentionally swapped either in one place or the other. There are plenty more inconsistencies in TFTD anyhow. -[[User:NKF|NKF]]

So then, if there are no further objections, I plan to do the following:

- Swap the listed UFOpaedia pics for the Escort and Survey Ship to match the ones found in the in-game UFOpaedia.

- Swap the listed floorplans to agree with what is actually found on the Battlescape

- Add a note to both articles that there's likely some sort of mixup.

Any objections? [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 19:47, 25 August 2009 (EDT)

:Generally agreed but you could consider putting both images on each page, listing the unmodified one first, and saying "it looks like THIS but should probably look like THIS". [[User:Spike|Spike]] 07:45, 26 August 2009 (EDT)

I'll link each page to the other of course, so that seems a bit redundant. It's been over a day by my count so I'll do the switch. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 07:54, 26 August 2009 (EDT)

...and done! [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 08:32, 26 August 2009 (EDT)

== disappearing corpses ==
I thought this one is quite well known but could not find it on the list(Remove this if I missed it somehow).
This annoying bug is regularly encountered in settings with large maps containing lots of aliens (ship lane terror missions, XCOM base assault, Alien base assault, Artefact sites). Since the item table gets too full at some point and alien corpses and I think stunned aliens as well are items they are simply disappearing when any more killed/stunned. Too bad if this happens to be your hard earned lobsterman commander...
The easiest way to reproduce it is to take leviathan load of aquanauts including a squad of strong MC troopers, bring a taser, drills and a medikit and assault an Alien base. At sea level use MC chains to put every alien under molecular control and and march them to your transport. ASAP stun one aquatoid soldier,revive it with the medikit and wall it in. Then cull the rest of the Alien garrison and stuff your pockets and backpacks with DPLs and ammo, Sonic pulsers, corpses and other weapons and ammo(unload ammo from weapons) until you can carry no more. Once you are done finish the off the last aquatoid and proceed to the second stage. There drop the stuff and play hunt the last alien(in order to get all the loot from the base) and soon you will encounter the bug.--[[User:Tauon|Tauon]] 15:13, 11 October 2010 (EDT)