UFOpaedia - User contributions [en]

Laser Pistol vs All Predecessors

2018-09-15T19:45:35Z

Saladofstones:

If (as argued [[Best Starting Weapons (EU)|elsewhere]]) either the [[Heavy Cannon]] or the [[Auto Cannon]] is the best standard primary squad weapon at the very start of the game, what to do when the [[Laser Pistol]] is available? (Presuming that Laser Pistols are researched before any other replacement standard squad weapon.)

Unfortunately I think the Laser Pistol is so powerful that it immediately displaces both the Auto Cannon and the Heavy Cannon as the primary combat weapon, and forces both into a support role. The Auto Cannon moves forever into a specialised role only. The Heavy Cannon will languish on the shelves, at least until much more heavily armoured enemies arrive on the scene.

As a support weapon the HC will be restricted to clearing hard terrain (with AP and HE), and delivering explosive rounds (including against terrorists). On a terror mission, it might be partly restored to its earlier value to minimise "friendly fire" against civilians.

In pure firepower, the Laser Pistol is more powerful than any starting fired weapon, other than the Rocket Launcher, against all aliens except the Reaper. HC-HE and AC-HE are about 4 times more effective than Laser Pistols versus Reapers (and twice as effective as Laser Rifles, even). Otherwise, the Laser Pistol significantly exceeds the Heavy Cannon and Auto Cannon (and [[Rifle]] and [[Pistol]]) in general-purpose firepower, and far exceeds it on versatility, weight, space, ammo, speed and flexibility.

In theory the HC-AP retains superior armour-piercing capability but in practice this only applies to destroying key items of hard terrain. The main heavily armoured enemy, the [[Cyberdisk]], is better dealt with by Laser Pistols rather than HC-AP - as are all more lightly armoured opponents. AC-HE and HC-HE are almost completely ineffective, but Heavy Rockets are still the most effective, more so than Laser Pistols),

The main drawback of the Laser Pistol is its poor accuracy, especially when used in continuous auto burst mode (as is optimum). For this reason it might be good to retain Heavy Cannon for situations when accuracy is critical, since the HC is the best sniper weapon (out of the starting weapons).

For one-shot/one-burst kill probability (to prevent reaction fire) against the typical Sectoid or Floater targets the AutoCannon is about the same as the Laser Pistol in all modes. The aimed Heavy Cannon (AP or HE) is significantly (50%) better than all other starting weapons apart from the [[Rocket Launcher]] (which in turn is 50% better again). The aimed Heavy Cannon of course has the additional benefit of reducing collateral damage.

In summary, once the Laser Pistol is deployed:

#The Laser Pistol becomes the primary standard combat weapon.
#The Auto Cannon is relegated to specialist roles (Illumination, fighting [[Reaper]]s, clearing light terrain, close range shock work <b>if</b> you have good armour).
#The Heavy Cannon is relegated to the roles of sniper weapon, fighting Reapers, and hard terrain destruction. The Heavy Cannon retains more usefulness than the Auto Cannon.
#The Pistol becomes obsolete except as a secondary weapon during the transitional period when Laser Pistols are too scarce to give to everyone.
#The Rifle becomes pretty much obsolete I think. The Laser Pistol has more firepower and better first-shot/first-burst kill probability, in every mode. Possibly useful in situations such as scouting a Terror site, where the extra accuracy helps to reduce collateral damage, balanced with the relatively quick fire & movement.
#Rocket Launchers firing Heavy Rockets retain most or all of their starting role as X-Com's "ultimate weapon".

==See Also==

[[Weapon Analysis]]

[[Category:Enemy Unknown/UFO Defense]]

Heavy Cannon vs Auto Cannon

2018-09-15T19:44:23Z

Saladofstones:

*At medium to long range, the Heavy Cannon in general has 50% better firepower (effective damage per turn) than the AutoCannon against lightly armoured targets. This advantage increases further against more heavily armoured targets.
*The HC is significantly cheaper to own and operate than the AutoCannon - around half price.
*The HC is even more superior in reaction fire (snap fire only, no auto) firepower at medium to long range.
*Generally the HC has the best first-shot-kill probability (except at close range) - very important when aliens can reaction fire with plasma weapons on Auto against lightly armoured troops!
*Heavy Cannon is the most powerful "safe" sniper weapon vs well-armoured targets. (The Rocket Launcher is more lethal but in no way "safe" for friendly targets or loot). The Pistol is slightly more lethal, but only against very lightly armoured targets. The HC is superior to all others in this regard, even the Laser Pistol. It is only beaten when the Laser Rifle appears.
*HC generally is better for point destruction of hard terrain than AC (both AP and HE). HC will tend to destroy objects that the AC would not. However, the AC on Auto-Fire will cover a greater area destruction and is better for clearing large amounts of light or medium cover.
*The HC can step up to tackling Mutons, with some degree of success. At medium range and above the HC-AP has double the Autocannon's effective firepower against Mutons, and HE (the best round vs Mutons) is 20-40% more powerful (20% vs AC auto, 40% vs AC snap).
*Except at close range, AC-HE or AC-AP on auto is so inaccurate as to be barely more effective than snap shot. HC snap fire is much more effective than AC snap or auto.
*However in cases where AC-HE auto can be used without any regard to accuracy (point blank range in Power Armour, or short range with targets against a strong wall), total firepower is about 60% higher than HC-HE.
*Similiar to the walls, with a height advantage, the ground itself makes Autocannnons with HE much more powerful. Shooting from higher ground/ Flying Armor will turn an Autocannon with HE into an extremely deadly weapon.
*However, HE auto has the unwanted side-effect of destroying a lot of precious alien equipment, when an enemy dies from the first shot, drops his equipment and corpse, and the 2nd shot wipes out all the bounty.
**Actually, since plasma weapons (amongst the more valuable alien items) are [[Explosions#Object_Destruction|difficult to destroy]], this isn't quite as bad an issue as it may seem. The Auto Cannon will do 44 damage vs objects at ground zero, so a dead on hit on the killed alien will still leave its primary weapon. (Damage vs. objects is not randomized). At one space away from ground zero, a Blaster Launcher will also survive. However, the body, any grenades, and any spare clips will be destroyed unless your soldier botches the shot by 3 squares or more (2 squares for the body), Alien bodies are each worth half the cost of a replacement soldier. And the extremely valuable Mind Probes - worth 5 soldiers - are very easily destroyed. Using HE inside a UFO is a very bad idea, as there are lots of very valuable items - not just in financial terms - that are easily destroyed by HE.
*Similarly, the AC becomes more powerful when firing in a target rich environment. If there are multiple enemies inside the firing arc, firing at the center enemy will likely either hit the intended target or the other unintended targets.
*Another advantage the Auto Cannon has over the HC are its 2.33 times greater ammo capacity. (But surely it is better to run out of ammo than to run out soldiers. XCom fights firefights, not seiges. Lethality is more important than attrition or endurance. Also, since the AC is usually used in burst mode, and the firepower comparisons compare AC bursts to HC snap fire, the AC actually has ''less'' ammo capacity from that perspective.)
*Conversely the main downside of the HC is the 6-rd ammo limitation, and its implications for Encumbrance, total ammo capacity, reload frequency, diversity of ammo types per soldier, inventory slots used, and use of the 80-item limit. For small squads (eg 6 man) this will lead to Weight/Encumbrance problems carrying enough ammo to finish the mission. For large squads (14 man) this is less of a problem but still puts quite a strain on the 80-item limit. The AC does suffer from the same problem, though to a slightly lesser extent.
* The AutoCannon has definite specialist roles where it is superior to the HC, such as illuminating with IC, or fighting Reapers with HE. AC-HE on auto can also be more effective for mass clearance of deep (but light) cover.
*Sometimes clearing said cover will result in alien deaths. The AC is the best human weapon for "suppresive fire" or "blind fire" or tactical area bombardment. If you suspect there is an alien in the general area but can't see him, the AC-HE is your best friend.
*The AC-HE is possibly the best weapon for training up Firing Accuracy, since it has the largest (theoretical) amount of hits in 1 turn of fire. 1 burst of auto-fire on a Reaper will be enough to max out a soldier's accuracy experience gain potential for that mission, if all 3 shots hit all 4 squares.
*If exploiting the Incendiary Exploit, the Autocannon gains relative to the HC, as it can fire more rounds (doing fire damage to multiple units each time), and arguably it can make more effective use of the limited number of map squares that can be on fire, due to its smaller burst radius.

*The biggest drawback to all heavy weapons is weight restrictions or the resulting TU penalty from encumbrance. For the HC 81% of starting rookies can carry it (unencumbered) with 1 extra clip, 52% with 2 extra clips and 24% with 3 extra clips. As for the Auto-Cannon, 81% can carry it with 1 more clip, 57% with 2 more clips and 33% with 3 more clips. (Due to a bug, the first clip of any weapon, usually AP, is loaded automatically and "weight free" during the Equip Troops phase, unless you change or unload it, so this adds +1 clip to the preceding figures.)

:Note: "Firepower" as used here is defined as "average armour-adjusted damage delivered on target per unit of time".

==See Also==

[[Weapon Analysis]]

[[Category:Enemy Unknown/UFO Defense]]

Skipping Gauss Weapons

2018-09-15T19:42:04Z

Saladofstones: Fixed some formatting and typo

==General Discussion==

In Xcom, researching laser weapons first is considered a matter of course... after all, you didn't want to be still using pistols and rifles when the Mutons arrive. Heck, even snakemen were hard to put down with those things.

However, in TFTD, Gauss has some huge failings. Using Ammo (a HUGE difference in the 2 stage terror missions and the alien artefact sites!), enemy resistances against Gauss are huge...

In my last few TFTD games, I skipped Gauss entirely and completely. Instead, as soon as I captured alien tech, I concentrated on Sonic Weapons, as well as Aqua plastics and armor.

Note that researching up to Gauss Rifles (with clips) takes 660 scientist days, 1350 for Heavy Gauss (with clips). Sonic Pistol + Clip take 1000 days.

The whole POINT of laser weapons in Xcom was that, early on, you could make do with terrestial weapons (actually, the explosive weapons stay good til the end of the game). Researching Laser Weapons gave you something powerful for when the tougher aliens started appearing. Laser rifles killed anything except Superhuman Sectopods with good efficiency.

Gauss Weapons... when the tougher aliens start appearing, Gauss becomes really weak and not very useful. Lobstermen laugh these off, Tasoth's take quite a few shots from this...

And the item management issue. Sigh. Laser Weapons were much treasured for the ability to bring in 20 soldiers to the mission and only need 20 item slots. Those Gauss things... aargh. You gotta bring at least 60 items, 20 guns and 40 clips, and even that will get spent really fast.

Overall, I would say that Laser Weapons are a very good long term investment in Xcom... you spend 450 lab days and a few engineering weeks, and you use them for the entire campaign. Gauss, you spend longer in engineering, and then you only use Gauss for maybe a month before realizing that you have to throw it away and rely completely on sonic weapons.

NKF seems to favor gauss... personally, I don't bother using it anymore. ... Any other opinions among you Xcommies out there?

:Well Gauss weapons do have some uses. First of all though, if you are equipping squads based on what you learned in the first game, you'll have problems. Gauss weapons are not meant to be an entire team weapon like lasers were in EU. Weapon diversification is the name of the game in TFTD. Also, gauss has damage modifier issues which can make it totally ineffective against some (actually most) aliens. But Gauss does have something Sonic does not: Auto Shot. I find it useful when storming the inside of a USO. Accuracy at such close quarters is basically a non-issue. Damage from the sonic line is greater, but you will only be able to use Snap or Aimed shots. An Auto Shot from a Gauss Rifle is just as good as a Sonic Pistol since it's putting 3 shots on the target instead of 1. Of course, Gauss isn't going to do much against a few aliens so in this case Sonic has to be the primary weapon used. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 10:55, 4 April 2009 (EDT)

:: I've always considered it a stepping stone technology myself rather than a long lasting technology like laser tech. No - that honor goes to the drills. Such a pity they can't attack terrain!

:: Despite its damage being completely nerfed by the damage modifiers, autoshot for the gauss pistol and gauss rifle more than make up for it. The gauss weapons are mainly replacements for your jet harpoons and work very well against all the aliens you meet until you start fighting the lobstermen. By then you should've developed better weapons. In fact you would be wise to supplement them with sonic pulsers early into the game for when you need that extra punch. You can just as easily get by with Gas Cannons (and you can - they're awesome), but Gauss weapons fill the niche of your fast/weak assault weaponry that is valuable for your forward soldiers.

::Is it a waste of research time though? Well - that's entirely up to you. It might matter if its your first time playing the game or if you're trying to run a speed game. But there's only a finite amount of technology available, so you can easily pick and choose the one you want right away and get the rest when there's not much else to do. No rush to T'Leth after all. But that's just how I approach the game. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 16:04, 4 April 2009 (EDT)

:::Well one aspect that is quite similar to EU is the payoff for researching Gauss is the economic aspect, to manufacture Gauss Cannon for profit. So there is not just the tactical benefits to consider, there are also economic benefits for researching the Gauss stream. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 18:04, 4 April 2009 (EDT)

:OMG, The Gauss/Laser Cannons. Geez. Takes QUITE a lot of researching to get them, and they're not as useful as Avalanche Missiles. The only point behind them is that you can sell them for big profit. GEEZ. ... Xcomutil's profit nerf renders them COMPLETELY useless, IMHO. In fact I'll add that to the wiki? ... But that's a good point, Spike.

:No, you are right, there is no rush to T'leth. The rush is in researching Psi/MC, actually. Meh. ... Actually, NKF, I had a number of games (especially on Superhuman) where Lobstermen appeared far earlier than might seem reasonable. (of course the aliens should logically be very uhnreasonable and wipe you out with maximum force right from the start...). I found that not having researched Sonic when you get your first Lobsterman Terror Mission is a little horrifying.

: Also, those freaking tentaculats! Freaking Flying Chryssalids! Erk. These alone make reaction fire very VERY important in TFTD. And, since reaction is always snap shot, I found that Gauss was never enough to save my agents from zombification, only sonics gave them a chance to survive.

: I don't see how Gauss is a stepping stone to Sonics. It's more like a detour. (It is obvious Gauss Rifle is stepping stone to Gauss Cannon though).

: The fact that auto-fire makes Gauss really powerful in close combat, eg when fighting in an alien craft, is a very very good point! ... However. DRILLS. Hmm hmm hmm.

: Analysing the 4 races, Aquatoid and Gillmen can be easily dealt with via standard store bought equipment. Tasoth only take 70% Gauss damage and 120% sonic damage! Lobstermen laugh at Gauss. So, I find that using store bought Gas Cannons, and Hydrojet Cannons on Aquatoids and Gillmen seems to be very adequate to my needs. Especially, early on, my men have shit for accuracy and explosive ammo is uber... heck, those Terror units are pretty freaking resistant to Gauss too.

: Anything, Gauss can do, Heavy Explosive does better. :) [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 22:31, 4 April 2009 (EDT)

Gauss is not a literal stepping stone, as in a prerequisite. It just gives your troops a good start in the battlefield, allowing you to concentrate more on building up your resources and other supports so that you can start phasing in the sonic weapons.

Experiences will vary from player to player regarding the appearance of the Lobstermen - so you just have to deal with them as they appear, such as avoiding them or getting really good with the Thermal Tazer! (Coincidentally, did we ever bust the myth about sonic weapon research accelerating their appearance?)

But because we all have different ways we like to approach the game: You don't ''have'' to force yourself to use gauss if you don't want to. The game's lenient enough to let you decide how you want to cook your seafood.

Is till consider the first two gauss weapons as some of the best weapons you can start with. Perhaps not as powerful as the Gas Cannon, but they are still light and fast and come packed with lots of ammo. The high ammo does it for me, as I tend to go through it very quickly even when I take careful shots.

The mighty Gas Cannon can definitely be used in lieu of gauss (which is why I made special mention of it in the TFTD Best Starting Weapon Summary), but you have to be extra mindful of its ammo.

Then there's always the option of just researching the Sonic pistol after your first mission. Because it's still early into the game, ammo conservation will also be a major concern. We won't always be lucky enough to gather large amounts of ammo and might use more ammo than they can gather.

Weapon diversification often wins the day in TFTD's early stages and helps save the more precious ammo. If you can accommodate all three somehow, that's even better. I like my dual pistols thank you very much!

Not going to argue about the Sonic Pistol being a good reaction fire weapon. It has equal cost and accuracy as the Gauss Rifle. The Gauss Pistol is the best weapon for reacting with that can still damage a superhuman Tasoth (from the back). The absolute best weapon to react with in this game (and I really hate to say this) is the Dart Gun. Great training weapon nonetheless. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 03:26, 5 April 2009 (EDT)

: Depends what you mean by "best to react with". There's a) Makes you perform a lot of reaction shots and thus good for training. b) Kills your enemy.

: I had some shipping lane missions. Somehow ended up burning all my Gauss ammo, ALL of it, by the end of the mission only 4 men out of my 14 men team could fire their weapons. Later on I did the missions with Sonics, and my ammo was just fine. Though this was quite some time ago, so maybe my memory gets faulty or something. ...crap. I remember getting Synonium Device missions early on as well. Those could get pretty hairy without Sonics, though I recall completing them with Gauss, albeit they were more of a headache.

: I found that the Hydrojet Cannon was pretty darn great for underwater missions, actually. ...Comparing Gauss and Underwater only weapons...how many Land Missions against Gillmen and Aquatoids do you go through? ...How many missions against Tasoth and Lobstermen do you go through? ...Actually, I found that there were 2 playstyles. A) was to have a generic loadout for all missions. B) was to manually setup each loadout based on mission type. ...Overall, I found that before you get Transmission Resolver, you have no idea what type of alien you are going to be facing. However, you ALWAYS get warning before hand whenever the mission will be on land. Therefore, it is a PAIN, but it is very very possible to use Torpedo Launchers and Hydrojets in your normal games, and switch loadouts during land missions. (That's what I'm forced to do once I get DPLs, so I might as well get used to it, i guess?) However, having a team with a loadout for Aquatoids and meeting Lobstermen = abort mission.

: Actually, I don't really consider Gauss to be "starting weapons". Truth be told, on Superhuman, by the time you get them, even rushing, it can be a little late in the game. Especially if you have to spend a lot of money making your base defensible. Same for laser weapons, really. Of course, in Xcom, the weapon flow is always : purchased weapons -> Laser Pistol -> Laser Rifle -> Heavy Plasma -> Psi. In TFTD, the enemy upgrades itself to Rifles so fast on superhuman, that I found my weapon flow to be : Purchased Weapons -> Sonic Rifle -> Psi. Hmm. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 10:29, 5 April 2009 (EDT)

:: "Best to react with" is as you say dependent on what you want. The Sonic Pistol is still the best to react with in the sonic family. The faster but depresslingly weaker dart gun for example would only be useful to interrupt a tentaculats charge. Ever notice how melee enemies seem to break off their charge after a reaction shot, then resume the charge on the next? Something like that anyhow. Not something to rely on exclusively. Much rather blast it to bits with sonic weapons any day - or poke it in the back with a drill.

:: I actually experience a lot of land missions in the form of shipping lane missions, and the various terror sites that underwater fights seem rare at times. But this varies from game to game, obviously. That's why I'm a little wary of using predominantly under-water-only loads and try going for mixed kits involving all sorts of equipment (to the point of having 1 gas cannon even in the late game when I'm almost entirely using sonics). Good thing the underwater restriction stops the aliens from using the DPL though. Love that aspect of it. No so for the HjC.

:: Gauss is a starting weapon in the sense that you have it right from the very start (even though you need a bit of research), and you don't have to go out and get anything to be able to get it. Also, some players are lucky (or should I say unlucky?) enough to get a few gauss pistols built before they go on their very first mission. Have had this happen to me a few times on superhuman after the first couple of subs I spotted fled from my Barracudas. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 02:17, 6 April 2009 (EDT)

: I, personally, like to research sonic rifle first. By the time research done, I already have several rifles. Even if clip research is not ready, it's possible to fire from trophy weapons. (At start I buy gas cannons and dump all other weapons. Works nice.) Research sequence goes as Sensor->Medikit->Sonic Rifle->it's clip->armor or Sonic Cannon.

: My opinion:
:* Gauss Pistol: too weak
:* Gauss Rifle: mainstream stuff
:* Heavy Gauss: only until I get DPL (I never got to that point)
:* CGC: OK until I get CSC
:* SWS/G: nice!
: However, that's just my opinion. I personally avoid being overly reliant on alien guns, researching but not using them (except stunners and blasters). I once ran into a situation in UFO when I was sitting in my bases, unable to do anything since I ran out of Elerium. Not to mention that I like the Gauss firing sound much more than Sonic firing sound (and I want to be visually distinctive from aliens). Xcomutil completely turns the tables on Gauss vs. Sonic: with Gauss weapons getting unlimited ammo, rapid-firing all over the place is fun!--[[User:Amitakartok|amitakartok]] 17:47, 5 September 2009 (EDT)

== Gauss vs. AP comparison ==

Just glancing at the damage modifier table for TFTD, a few observations come to mind. For the early aliens that you are expected to be using AP and Gauss weapons against (aquatoid, gillmen, Deep Ones and Calcinite - generally), most of the damage multipliers are roughly the same. Note this refers to non-explosives.

Both types do:
* 100% vs. aquatoids and Gillmen
* 90% vs. Deep Ones.

That means that both AP (in the form of GC-AP) or gauss weaponry are quite fair against these enemies. There's one alien that differs somewhat.

* Calcinite, 100% AP vs 90% Gauss

That's not too bad a difference. You should be able to get past these aliens and move onto sonic weaponry before the higher tier aliens show up.

These two damage types start to really fluctuate in effectiveness against the higher tier enemies and the terror units. (do note that using lower tier weapons on higher tier aliens is often asking for trouble)

AP does better vs:
* Tasoth: 80% AP vs. 70% Gauss.
* Xarquids and Biodrones: 100% AP vs. 70% Gauss.
* Triscene: 90% AP vs. 80% Gauss.

Gauss does better vs:
* Lobstermen: 20% AP vs. 30% Gauss (slightly less useless)
* Hallucinoids: 60% AP vs 80% Gauss

What a mixed bunch Gauss and AP are! You probably will have upgraded to Sonic by the time you meet these guys, but some of the above is worth knowing.

Finally, one last observation about Gauss vs. AP: Against your own units.

* Unarmored and Plastic Aqua Armor: 100% AP vs. 100% Gauss
* Ion Armor/Mag Ion Armor: 90% AP vs. 80% Gauss
* SWS: 95% AP vs. 60% Gauss

AP's really earning its own title of "Armor Piercing" in TFTD. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 05:20, 6 April 2009 (EDT)

==Research Time Comparison==

=== Gauss vs Sonic ===

Ref Avg TOT.
0 50 50 Gauss Tech
29 100 150 Gauss Pistol
62 60 210 Gauss Pistol Clip
30 300 510 Gauss Rifle
63 150 660 Gauss Rifle Clip
31 460 1120 Heavy Gauss
64 230 1350 Heavy Gauss Clip
32 420 1770 Craft Gauss Cannon
8 600 600 Sonic Pistol
9 400 1000 Sonic Pistol Clip
6 700 1700 Blasta Rifle
7 400 2100 Blasta Clip
4 800 2900 Sonic Cannon
5 400 3300 Cannon Power Clip

=== Research discussion ===

An average of a thousand scientist-days of research is needed before you have a usable Sonic weapon - and you can't start until after your first combat. The Gauss weapon sequence delivers progressively better weapons at 210, 660, and then 1350 days. An additional 420 days (total 1770) unlocks the economic benefits of Gauss Cannon manufacturing. And each of these Gauss weapons is its own "stepping stone", a significant improvement on anything else available (so skipping research on the Clips is not sensible). Though, as has been discussed, in TFTD you need a mix of weapons.

The decision to develop Gauss weapons as a stepping-stone weapon may hinge on how much Research capability is available. If you have 50 scientists from the outset (or by your first combat), you may be able to afford to wait out the average of 20 days using only standard weapons. Even then it is likely to be a while before you have the manufacturing capability, or looting success, to arm all your aquanauts with Sonic weapons. Though if you tend to use small squads, that will be easier.

Personally I develop Gauss weapons from the outset. When I get my first Sonic Pulser, I switch to developing that, as it is easily scavenged and a massive equaliser. I develop Gauss weapons at least as far as Gauss Rifle. Unless I'm going down a Manufacturing Profitability route, I'm not so sure about proceeding to Heavy Gauss. The additional 690 days is not so far off the 1000 required for functioning Sonic Pistols. With Gauss Rifles and Sonic Pulsers in hand, you can manage pretty well during the delay in researching Sonic Pistol. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 10:05, 5 April 2009 (EDT)

: Your totaling is incorrect, as Sonic weapons are independent of each other on the research tree. So reaching sonic cannon only takes 1200 days if you decide to skip the earlier ones. --[[User:(name here)|(name here)]] 22:43, 12 August 2009 (EDT)

:: Thanks for pointing out they are independent, I was not sure, as I don't have access to a research tree (there is none on this site AFAIK). It's nonetheless true to say that '''at least''' an average 1000 research-days are required for the first usable Sonic weapon, and that research can't start until the first combat. If you choose to make the Sonic Cannon that weapon, you would require 1200 days, and you would start significantly later. As (arguably) the Sonic Pistol is the best all-round Sonic weapon, and usually the first one you have the opportunity to research, what I said here is the most likely case. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 07:56, 13 August 2009 (EDT)

==See Also==
[[Weapon Analysis]]

[[TFTD Research Sequences]]

[[Category:TFTD]]

Sonic Cannon vs Displacer/Sonic

2018-09-15T19:36:08Z

Saladofstones:

Sonic Cannon:

Veteran soldiers will have higher accuracy (When soldier accuracy is 64 or higher), and fit through narrow spaces.

Displacer/Sonic:

Can fire 3 times and still have 10 TU to spare! (and have same power as Sonic Cannons in TFTD)
Have MUCH better side armor and better rear armor than soldiers.
Higher Health
Are repaired between missions
Can fly on land missions!
99 Ammo (free refills) vs 10 Ammo
Cannot be zombified... have a decent chance of surviving an ambush by a Tentaculat.

Huge change between Heavy Plasma vs Hovertank/Plasma in Xcom!

[[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 05:03, 7 April 2009 (EDT)

Soldiers gain benefits for killing, tanks don't. Soldiers can swap weapons, use devices, tanks have only one way to operate. Zagorszk, 29-07-2009

:Tanks also take up 4 spaces. In a way, it's bad as it means you are denying yourself 300% TU bars worth of weapon operation, and that tanks take extra damage from area effect damage (mind you, the under-armour for displacers are unparalleled). The loss in space is a problem for players that like to use large teams. For players that use small teams, the loss in soldier spaces is meaningless.

:There is also one thing I want to check when I get a chance, and that is the (TFTD only) tank immunity to reaction fire. It's quite unpredictable, and I've only really seen it in action with the two basic coelacanths. Conflicting reports about them and the three advanced SWS make me wonder if there are some conditions to this. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 02:49, 30 July 2009 (EDT)

A Displacer/Sonic is worth far more then 4 Sonic Cannon soldiers. First off is has greater survivability, unless you equip each man with Magnetic Ion Armor. In that case the cost of the troops goes way up. The Displacer will always be a better scout because of its speed (higher TUs). As a scout you can still have your men act as snipers and gain experience. The best part is that the Displacer/Sonic is immune to Tentaculat attacks. Even having a single human scout turned into a zombie can be the start of a very bad day. [[User:M52nickerson|M52nickerson]] 10:42, 20 September 2010 (EDT)

: Ah, but, NKF, if you're talking about TU bars and firepower, you gotta factor in that soldiers might have to turn 45 degrees or more. Which means that soldier only has enough TUs for one shot per turn. From that perspective, it's quite possible that 4 soldiers would only be able to fire 4 shots per turn, while the tank gets to fire 3 shots. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 14:05, 24 May 2011 (EDT)

:: I don't really think it matters if your aquanauts have to turn as they're practically restricted to 1 shot a turn anyhow with the Sonic Cannon for the most part. But that's it. 400% worth of TU bars with 4 soldiers, 4 possible shots, 4 independent targets worth of scouts and 'shields', etc. That said, the Displacer is actually still better value. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 15:51, 24 May 2011 (EDT)

::: Actually, the way I play, I tend to snipe from across the map for the most part, so I quite often get to fire 2 snap shots from a soldier.[[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 03:44, 25 May 2011 (EDT)

::::Same here - I suspect this is probably more to do with the way the maps are much more open in TFTD. You do have to be sure of the direction the troopers are facing when you set up your cannon snipers as any minor adjustments in facing will cut down their number of snapshots per turn to 1. Once set though, 2 rounds a turn isn't too shabby. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 02:11, 26 May 2011 (EDT)

==See Also==

[[Weapon Analysis]]

[[Category:TFTD]]

Gas Cannon vs Torpedo Launcher

2018-09-15T19:34:07Z

Saladofstones:

Somewhat 'under construction'.

This article aims to compare the Gas Cannon against the Torpedo Launcher.

Where there was little comparison between their predecessors the [[Heavy Cannon]] and [[Rocket Launcher]] as weapons were vastly different, the improvements to the Gas Cannon and reductions to the Torpedo Launcher have moved them much closer together in terms of effectiveness.

With the help of stat comparison and perhaps some scenarios, the main aim of this article is to establish whether the Gas Cannon can make a suitable replacement for the Torpedo Launcher.

== Original Discussion ==

The Gas Cannon's improved HE damage of 65, and the Torpedo Launcher's nerfed damage of 90, mean that the Torpedo Launcher is now obsolete... back in Xcom, 52 vs 100 damage made the rocket launcher worthwhile, but in TFTD, the fact that you can get 2 shots off with GC makes the 25 point difference no longer worth it, damagewise. And the ammo issues are even more magnified too.

:I guess the exception to this would be against a target type with very high armour levels, or very high effective armour vs HE due to HE damage type resistance. Eg - an extreme case - if the target had armour level 65, the average damage from the Torpedo would be massively higher and would justify the lower rate of fire. If you had no better weapon available. Not sure what the typical armour levels range up to in TFTD though. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 06:38, 10 July 2009 (EDT)

:: Nothing that high thankfully. Lobstermen on the other hand take 30% damage from HE, so between the GC-HE and Large Torpedo, the Large Torpedo would definitely have better piercing qualities. The torpedo launcher also has good aimed accuracy, which is good when you've got a very accurate aquanaut. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 09:13, 10 July 2009 (EDT)

I think that the most important difference between the two is that Gas Cannon can be fired on the surface, while torpedo is restricted to underwater usage (except reaction fire, which is definitely a bug). What's more, Gas Cannon sounds great when fired, and the following alien screams make it even better :)

Sorry, I forgot to sign: Zagorszk, 29-07-2009

== Further Thoughts ==

Apart from a niche as a low-tech Lobsterman-sniping weapon, the Torpedo Launcher has a useful role in any early, low tech Alien Colony Assault (while it might be impossible to destroy a Colony with starting weapons, raiding it to counteract the score penalty for allowing the Colony to exist is still a good idea). Large Torpedoes can easily breach the southwest facing diagonal walls at the corners of the main seabed building, as well as the interior double doors inside that main building that lead to the main grav lift.

Even if just for these two reasons, it is probably worth keeping a stock of launchers and large torpedoes on hand, at least until Sonic Pulsers are readily available.
[[User:Spike|Spike]] 23:05, 13 October 2012 (EDT)
==See Also==

[[Weapon Analysis]]
[[Category:TFTD]]

White Shambler (Piratez)

2018-09-02T14:55:35Z

Saladofstones:

{| style="float:right; vertical-align:top"
|
{{Unit Stat Wrapper Open | title = White Shambler}}
{|
|- style="vertical-align:top;"
| style="width: 180px;"|
{{Template:Unit_Stat_Box (Piratez) |=
| time_units = 70
| stamina = 100
| health = 200
| bravery = 90
| reactions = 40
| firing_accuracy = 0
| melee_accuracy = 80
| throwing_accuracy = 0
| strength = 120
| voodoo_skill = 0
| voodoo_strength = 30
}}
| style="width: 180px;"|
{{Template:Unit_Stat_Box2 (Piratez) |=
| armor_front = 15
| armor_sides = 15
| armor_rear = 15
| armor_under = 10
| melee_dodge = 48/24
| aggression = 3
| intelligence = 1
| night_vision = 20
| energy_recovery = 50
| stun_recovery = Normal
}}
| style="width: 180px;"|
{|
[[File:SHAMBLER_Piratez.gif|120px|center|Shambler]]
|-
|-
|- style="width: 180px;"|
{{Template:Unit_Stat_Box3 (Piratez) |=
| 2x2_unit = Yes
| height_standing = 24
| size = Huge
| bleed_immune = No
| ransom = $30,000
| score = 15
}}
|}
{|
| {{Template:Resistances (Piratez)|=
| charm = 0
| piercing = 90
| burn = 100
| concussive = 50
| laser = 100
| plasma = 100
| daze = 100
| cutting = 100
| acid = 100
| smoke = 100
| anti-e511 = 0
| bio = 100
| electric = 100
| emp = 10
| warp = 100
| mind = 30
| heat = 100
| cold = 100
}}
|}
{{Unit Stat Wrapper Close}}
|}
__TOC__
== Bootypedia ==
<div style="width:500px">
{{Ref Open | title = White Shambler Informantion}}
"White Shamblers are big and strong biped animals, that inhabit caves of various cold areas of the globe. They stun or kill their prey with fists before dragging them off to their hideouts to eat later (wearing a strong helmet is advised to survive such treatment). Their expensive fur hides a heavily-muscled body resistant to Piercing and especially Concussive damage. The beasts are too dumb and too savage to communicate with."
{{Ref Close | source = Piratez Bootypedia}}
</div>

== Inventory ==
<div class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed">
Under Construction
</div>
== Associated Research ==
<div class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed">
'''Required by:'''
B: Shambler (5/12/6) [m]
</div>
== Raw Ruleset Data ==
<div class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed">
type: STR_SHAMBLER_TERRORIST
race: STR_BEAST
rank: STR_LIVE_TERRORIST
stats:
tu: 70
stamina: 100
health: 200
bravery: 90
reactions: 40
firing: 0
throwing: 0
strength: 120
psiStrength: 30
psiSkill: 0
melee: 80
armor: SHAMBLER_ARMOR
standHeight: 24
kneelHeight: 18
value: 15
deathSound: 151
intelligence: 1
aggression: 3
energyRecovery: 50
livingWeapon: true
builtInWeapons:
- AUX_FISTO
type: SHAMBLER_ARMOR
spriteSheet: SHAMBLER.PCK
spriteInv: ShamblerInventoryImage
allowInv: false
visibilityAtDark: 20
heatVision: 50
corpseBattle:
- SHAMBLER_CORPSE_1
- SHAMBLER_CORPSE_2
- SHAMBLER_CORPSE_3
- SHAMBLER_CORPSE_4
corpseGeo: STR_SHAMBLER_CORPSE
frontArmor: 15
sideArmor: 15
rearArmor: 15
underArmor: 10
meleeDodge:
reactions: 0.2
melee: 0.5
meleeDodgeBackPenalty: 0.5
drawingRoutine: 5
size: 2
fearImmune: false
painImmune: false
createsMeleeThreat: true
overKill: 1.5
recovery:
morale:
moraleCurrent: -0.2
bravery: 0.2
stun:
health: 0.2
health:
stunNormalized: -0.165
damageModifier:
- 0.0
- 0.9
- 1.0
- 0.5
- 1.0
- 1.0
- 1.0
- 1.0
- 1.0
- 1.0
- 0.0
- 1.0
- 1.0
- 0.1
- 1.0
- 0.3
loftempsSet: [92, 89, 90, 91]
</div>
== Notes ==
Thermal Vision: 50%
[[Category: Piratez]]

Talk:Annihilator

2018-08-09T17:05:37Z

Saladofstones: /* Exaggeration? */

==Exaggeration?==
"A single ship can easily lay the entire UFO fleet to waste," says the article.

I haven't gotten that far yet, but this rings a little false to me. Stunlocks weight balance very strongly toward numbers, and the aliens have those in the form of the Stasis Bomb Launcher. I can see a couple of ways to get around that (Cloaking Field and/or Plasma Defence Arrays to prevent Stasis Bomb hits, or staying out of range and bombarding with the Heavy Disruptor Beam), but those don't sound like "easily" to me, and I'm not sure they'd suffice to solo the Alien Dimension at full strength. Can someone confirm or deny this claim? [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] ([[User talk:Magic9mushroom|talk]]) 13:10, 9 August 2018 (CEST)

* The article is referring to the overworld around Mega-Primus itself. While they can't solo the aliens on their turf, they are more than capable of handling most ufo fleets on their own with proper usage. Mega-Primus itself is pretty helpless once you get to the tier since I don't think their anti-vehicle scales much at all (the bigger issue will be the fallout in relations after you total everything and end up having to use your own transportation to get anywhere since the taxis and subways won't take you). The big thing to keep in mind is that with a 8x8 for equipment, large shield, the 4x4 weapon slot up frontand two weapon slots with 3 x 4 space, you got a lot of room to carry weapons. With a recharging beam, and 5 minute rearm on anything with ammo (Unless it got fan-patched, you can detach and reattach weapons to instantly restock them), along with a lot of potential shielding, it is pretty self-sufficient for a ufo invasion since it has more than enough shields, health, and firepower to tank and take down everything. [[User:Saladofstones|Saladofstones]] ([[User talk:Saladofstones|talk]]) 19:05, 9 August 2018 (CEST)