UFOpaedia - User contributions [en]

Talk:Building Optimization (EU2012)

2012-11-16T18:45:17Z

(name here):

==Deliberately not covering the Earth==
Satellite coverage section suggests not getting full coverage so abductions still happen. Other than making it harder, why would you want to do this? [[User:Binkyuk|Binkyuk]] 13:21, 16 November 2012 (EST)
: If there's just one uncovered country, you can wipe out the abduction mission for panic reduction, loot, and the reward.--[[User:(name here)|(name here)]] 13:45, 16 November 2012 (EST)

Talk:Soldier Skills & Equipment Guide (EU2012)

2012-11-16T17:52:47Z

(name here):

__ToC__

Very thorough information, but please keep it with a Neutral Point of View, because there's a lot that I disagree with (not the stats or the explanations) like your personal premise that Lethality is the most important issue regarding perk selection, or that you should choose Bullet Swarm over Holo-Targeting at the beginning, when to me Holo-Targeting is crucial to help rookies (and the whole squad) get kills and promotions. Some other things are incorrect/missing (Mayhem also increases damage from explosives) or it's just a matter of personal playstyle - I love Snap Shot snipers because of their ability to move and fire, it works great on the big UFOs and city maps with a lot of buildings but I also have a Sniper with Squad Sight for some maps.
I think it would be much more useful to have a Guide about when/how to use each perk and let the player decide. Otherwise it's just a matter of personal opinion and that won't be much useful. My suggestion would be to have this content either reworked or moved to another page. And there's also the matter of what this Beginner Guide should have besides perk selection. [[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 07:33, 21 October 2012 (EDT)
: Certainly has room for improvement on the NPOV side, but I think that's fine as starting point for an article. It can be reworked. However, I recommend adding a suffix to the page, otherwise it could be a beginner guide for any one of the many games if you came in here through a Google search or via another page. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 07:37, 21 October 2012 (EDT)
:: I like the stats analysis very much (I haven't had time to do it myself so it's a great read) I just think it needs a more neutral analysis. Some perks are essential like Field Medic, Revive and Savior to have Support Medic right away, I think that one everybody should agree, but as for the rest it's really a matter of playstyle. [[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 07:49, 21 October 2012 (EDT)

The one question I have is, what difficulty level(s) were you playing when you came to these conclusions. For me, certain abilities that were previously useless made more sense when switching to Classic and Impossible. ~ [[User:Drakalu|Drakalu]] 13:50, 23 October 2012 (EDT)

== Multiple PoVs ==

While this is a great guide, I feel that this guide is good only for a specific play style-IE, an aggressive one. If you want to be aggressive then that's all well and good, but many people would prefer a more subtle or defensive approach, approaches which are almost completely disregarded in this guide. Perhaps if we had multiple guides, one for each style (I believe this is already in place-isn't there an entire page dedicated to listing all the different guides for the original?) I don't think I would be a good example, but if everyone would like I could make a guide for my style, which is three supports-one a rifleman, two field medics, a heavy, and an assualt (the second field medic can be switched out for a Squadsight sniper) -[[User:Krikit386|Krikit386]]
:That's exactly my point above. Before the game was released I thought that the most important perks were those that expanded your 2 Actions, i.e. Snap Shot allows for Move and Fire with the Sniper Rifle, Bullet Swarm allows the Heavy to shoot twice, etc. After I started playing the game I realized that they are important (the same way that Lethality is) but you need to think about their general effect on the squad's abilities and their uses. Example: lots of people go for Squad Sight instead of Snap Shot. I like to have both, because Snap Shot is great for Abduction missions where most of the time you'll need to move to take the shot. Squad Sight also works for me on those occasions but Snap Shot fits more my style. Another example: UFO missions, I usually take Squad Sight but sometimes I'll switch to the Snap Shot sniper since he's the one more capable of using the Battle Scanner (since you'll usually keep your Squad Sight sniper behind), and you really need the Scanner to avoid unfriendly confrontations. [[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 10:14, 22 October 2012 (EDT)
::I've started rewriting the content to make it NPOV but I only got to the Heavy and Holo-Targeting/Bullet Swarm analysis. Before I continue can everyone please check the page and give some feedback on the part I've rewritten? [[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 11:08, 22 October 2012 (EDT)
:::Great work as ever, Hobbes. Apart from the NPOV improvements, I wonder if the article needs more context at the start though. Or if it needs renaming. It's called a Beginner Guide to the (whole) game but seems to focusing on only one important aspect, how to pick upgrades. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 11:38, 22 October 2012 (EDT)
::::I agree, I think a Beginner's Guide should have more tips for overall game play, rather than focusing on Skill choices. I really like this page, I had already thought of something similar that expanded the text on the Classes page. I think it needs to be renamed and possibly we could move it individual pages for each class to better split up all this information. [[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 12:16, 22 October 2012 (EDT)
:::::Maybe add in those overall tips. As it stands, this is more of intermediate article rather than a beginner article. It has a lot of analysis which sounds like disputation between experts. So if it's a true beginner article it needs to be simplified I think. Probably just rename it and keep it as it is. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 12:21, 22 October 2012 (EDT)
::::::Meanwhile the original poster just placed again his personal opinion regarding Holo-Targeting, so I've clarified things (I hope) about what NPOV means. My only problem is the size of this article but I think it could be a great guide to help choosing abilities. [[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 13:38, 22 October 2012 (EDT)
:::::::Hey everyone, the original author here. Sorry about the NPOV, I have a hard time scrubbing it from my style when I am dealing with something I care about. a couple things though. 1. I wasn't really intending to make a begineers guide, I was making a guide that hopefully could be useful to anyone, the begineers guide just had a big red empty spot that I plopped this into. 2. Matters of opinion I try to be honest about, but alot of things are not opinions even if they might seem like it. For example, the bulletswarm vs. holotargetting. I went back and editted your changes hobbes, sorry, I also threw in the probability curve that I was too lazy to add the first time. Or at least a part of it. Showing why the choice is a false dichotomy. Bullet swarm is more likely in a given sequence to produce more hits, period, at least for all the series I ran. 3. I would love for people to chime in about the less mathematically oriented choice and have a divsification of playstyles. I am working on a team composition guide and a guide to the geoscape, but the geoscape especially is not my specialization, I am a tactics and optimization man, and hopefully y'all can throw in. Ps apologies if I stepped on some toes, I don't have any real wiki experience. -Sodiumazide
::::::::Hey, no problem :) I wasn't not questioning the math, although at the end of the stats part you wrote something like: it's highly unlikely that all 4 soldiers will shoot at the alien, which is correct, but IMO, in that case the stats that show that 5 soldiers firing at the same time have better odds than 4 don't really prove anything. The more gung-ho style of writing isn't really a problem (plenty of articles here are written in a more lighter tone) it's really that people will have different opinions. Bullet vs Holo is one example but I'm sure there are plenty more where the choices will be polarized, like Snap Shot vs Squad Sight, which is very good because then you can contrast arguments. To me the correct NPOV is to think 'explain how it works and give the same space to both arguments' (which is easier said than done). About the guide, as Spike said, right now this is an intermediate guide, which is great to have, although we needed something simpler - it could have suggestions for class builds or an initial strategy, but it should be definitely K.I.S.S.
::::::::Here's one example from this wiki for such a guide: [[Starting_Your_Shadowy_Paramilitary_Organization]] [[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 15:16, 22 October 2012 (EDT)
::::::::: I was trying to explain why Holo-Targeting is a false choice and why Bullet Swarm will in similar circumstances perform better. The problem is that an extra roll of the die is worth more than a small bonus and that the heavy himself has more valuable hits on a given probability curve. So while giving space for both sides is certainly important, it is also important to distinguish where there is only one side, despite being two choices. --[[User:Sodiumazide|Sodiumazide]] 15:26, 22 October 2012 (EDT)
:::::::::: Actually- I can think of one case where Holotargetting IS a better choice, despite not having the numbers advantage: When you have to move to your target. In your example, the heavy started with vision on the enemy unit, and was given the choice to fire twice. As mentioned in your support section: "mobility is victory". Since firing rockets also consumes both turns, you have a VERY immobile unit, which doesn't alway play well, doublely so in panic missions. --[[User:Theoselk|Theoselk]] 17:40, 23 October 2012 (EDT)

OK, thanks for explaining where the article came from. Maybe a good idea would be to do what we previously had for EU 1994, where there were multiple strategy guides. Multiple strategy guides gives space for more divergent points of view and means we can slightly relax NPOV on those articles where they are flagged as subjective. They also tend to be more advanced in their thinking and factual argument, like this one is - less Keep It Simple Stupid and more analytical.

So we could add a main page link called Strategy Guides and then make this article the first Strategy Guide listed. The current article is better described as a strategy guide than a beginner guide. So I would suggest

*add Strategy Guides link on the main page, beneath Beginner Guide
*rename this page to something else, perhaps Sodiumazide's Strategy Guide? - without any redirect from Beginner Guide
*create the Strategy Guides page with a link to this first Strategy Guide page

Does that make sense for everyone? [[User:Spike|Spike]] 17:49, 22 October 2012 (EDT)

:::I am cool with that. Probably better that way anyhoo. --[[User:Sodiumazide|Sodiumazide]] 21:41, 22 October 2012 (EDT)

==Points by PartisanGerm==

I'm glad I was able to spur on some activity for this guide! This is the first time I have felt passionate enough about a topic in a wiki where I am compelled to add my two cents. At first, I just wanted to correct all the spelling, grammar, and give some spacing.... but I do wish to defend the arguments made in the guide. I happen to agree completely with ''almost'' everything that Sodiumzide wrote, I either already discovered the efficiency of certain abilities or had a hunch some were more effective than others. There are definitely a few begging for dispute as has been discussed:

* '''The Purpose and Style of the Guide'''
I don't think the guide is really gearing for aggressive action, so much as base tactical viability and efficiency. Quite simply, any skill that needs to be triggered is a skill that is potentially unused and not paying for itself (for some turns, or maps with buildings etc.) However, any skill that can literally be used for almost any situation (such as Rapid Fire and Bullet Swarm) are worth more than just the 'extra action' they effectively give. Sure, there are going to be instances when you miss both shots, but the probability to get at least one shot off

Also, I think the name of the guide should be modified to something more accurate like "Abilities Analyzed" or "Promotions Perused". The guide functions great as both a foundation for new players to play smart without experience and thinking about how abilities are used, as well as

The writing style is personal and informal, and that's another reason why I enjoyed reading it and wanted to enhance it. Yes, I would like to make it a bit more 'official-like', but not because the information appears to be an individual opinion. The end results expressed with this guide have a core in logic and logistics, not simply a preferred game play style.

* '''Heavy: Bullet Swarm vs. Holo-Targeting'''
Both of these abilities are very useful in a wide range of situations. However, I think Bullet Swarm proves to be more versatile and of guaranteed benefit no matter the results of using it.
:* Holo-Targeting is wasted on enemies that are finished with the attack it is targeted with; Bullet Swarm lets you shoot at another enemy or make a move after a kill.
:* Holo-Targeting allows other units a slightly better chance to hit, but it does not help the Heavy himself to hit; Bullet Swarm
:* Holo-Targeting gives the possibility of more reliable hits; Bullet Swarm always gives you the option to move/attack, attack/attack.
:* Late game enemies with a lot of health could benefit from more chance to his as well as more attacks, but usually the other classes already have good Aim.

* '''Sniper: Snap Shot vs. Squadsight'''
There is room for Snap Shot to be useful, when you're looking to be moving forward or into building with your Sniper. However, the aim cost of this ability almost negates the benefit and Sniper is literally the only class that wasn't designed for breaching (with the exception of Battle Scanner). I happen to think that Gunslinger gives Sniper all the mobile power he can reasonably make use of. The Sniper is made to be just that, shooting with high accuracy and power from afar. Getting your Sniper into just the right position so that he has line of sight to his targets is exactly what Squadsight allows for, and is just one of the tactics you're meant to be considering. Pulling enemies into his sight by tactical retreat is the other option.

* '''Support: Medic vs. Smoke Specialization'''
Unlike the other classes, which have a distinct preference for their roles, the Support works perfectly well tricked out as a Medic or a defensive/offensive assistant. The guide already says this, but could do with expansion on developing the two roles of Support.
:* Medic really is a required unit, since you're practically guaranteed to have some of your troops shot at some point or another.
:* Combat Support is certainly useful for preventing damage, but it is no guarantee. Having a second Medic instead of a Combat Support is up to preference.
--[[User:PartisanGerm|PartisanGerm]] 16:45, 14 November 2012 (EST)

:For the past two weeks I've been playing Classic Ironman non-stop and a few builds are starting to become my regulars but I think it would be better to have the main points for each choice as bullet for easier reading.
:I currently have a Colonel Heavy with Holo-Targeting, Rapid Reaction, Danger Zone, Suppression and Mayhem - it's a killer build against Mutons/Chryssalids/Floaters/etc - you can suppress whole groups of aliens, get 2 Overwatch shots if they try to move and still help with your soldiers aim. Until now I had focused on HEAT Rounds and Rocketeer by the medium/late game to deal with Sectopods and Cyberdiscs but I switched that role to my Assaults with Alloy Cannons. A killer combination is two Heavies, one of each build working together to take down targets.
:The main difference between Holo-Targeting is about the Heavy playing more of a Support/Ambush role or being a frontline unit. Both can work very well depending on the circumstances.
:Right now Snap Shot is useless due to the feature that allows you to switch weapons after moving and hitting Overwatch with the Sniper's pistol, unless you choose not to use it. [[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 17:25, 14 November 2012 (EST)

::Agreed on the bullet format -- frankly the first two skill breakdown in PG's post look better than the current content of the guide.
::While I am nowhere near willing to give up my Heavies with Shredder Rockets, HEAT Ammo, and Rocketeer in my Ironman Classic game, we should definitely make a move to point out synergies like the above. There are still some choices that are more or less no-brainers -- mostly for snipers -- but suggested ''builds'' would be really nice additions beyond just the individual skill suggestions. Some of that is implied in the text already but could be made more clear. --[[User:Merlin the Tuna|Merlin the Tuna]] 17:42, 14 November 2012 (EST)

::: As the page is refined and improved, a section with suggestions on various builds and synergies is definitely the way to go, as it would help balance the views a little. I might also suggest breaking down the equipment to cover a the primary/secondary arms, armour and item slot.

::: Hobbes, the trick with the sniper's pistol/sniper switch appears to only be a feature that can be done on the PC version. In the console versions, unless I'm missing something, once a soldier has ended their move such as by way of an overwatch, you can't tab back to them. [[User:NKF|NKF]] 18:14, 14 November 2012 (EST)
: One thing often forgotten about holo-targeting is that it takes effect even on a miss. While Bullet Swarm is certainly handy, it's basically worthless when you've got a 2% hit chance.--[[User:(name here)|(name here)]] 12:52, 16 November 2012 (EST)

Talk:Tactics (EU2012)

2012-11-16T17:41:33Z

(name here):

"This tactic is important for 2 reasons. 1. Aliens get a free move when they are seen and if the alien moves into view of a soldier that has already been put on overwatch they cannot use that turn to fire."

I am quite sure I have seen my soldier set already on overwatch shooting aliens spot by another soldier, in aliens' extra turn. Can someone else confirm this, please?

: This is true. The issue is with multiple soldiers on overwatch might all waste it on the same unit instead of each shooting at a different target. [[User:Mavoc|Mavoc]] 14:37, 15 October 2012 (EDT)
:: That only happens when you have a Sniper with the Squad Sight perk on Overwatch. He'll essentially fire at any alien that your soldiers see as long as he has a clear line of target. [[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 15:49, 15 October 2012 (EDT)
::: Firing on overwatch against off-turn movement even without squadsight is definitely possible, as is multiple units shooting at one movement. --[[User:(name here)|(name here)]] 12:41, 16 November 2012 (EST)

Tactics (EU2012)

2012-11-07T13:51:04Z

(name here):

===General Tactics===

Leap frog your way forward on maps while also rotating through your squad's first move before deciding to perform a second move. 
Overwatch, or fire if you encounter something along the way. 
This helps you maintain battlefield awareness including map size, squad spacing, and flank openings.

It will also help make sure you have someone with a move left to take action should you encounter aliens.

Save putting your soldiers on overwatch until the end of the turn. This tactic is important for 2 reasons. 1. Aliens get a free move when they are seen and if the alien moves into view of a soldier that has already been put on overwatch they cannot use that turn to fire. You have to rely on them having a reaction shot during the alien's turn. 2. If you want to move them somewhere else you can't because they are locked once on overwatch.

Alternatively, put several secure units (like snipers) into overwatch before revealing enemies. Your soldiers will open fire on aliens as they scramble for cover and the penalty to reaction fire will be more than compensated by the absence of a cover penalty. If you follow this up with careful Run & Gun tactics you can clean up weaker groups before they have a chance to fire at you.

Also, with all the other equipment such as medkits and nano fiber vests and such, the grenade is often overlooked. It is a good idea to have at least one grenade on hand, because a grenade is guaranteed damage, regardless of cover. Better yet, it destroys cover, making a poor shot into an easy shot. Early on when accuracy is poor and weapons are weak a grenade is a great way to dispatch Sectoids.

Muton berserkers have a handy habit of chasing down the soldier that shot them. If unprepared, or early on in the game with weak weapons and soldiers, this can be hard to deal with. Later on in the game with stronger characters and weapons it can be used to your advantage. If there are 3 or more soldiers in a line/group use the first soldier on the end to draw the Berserker to the group. Then shoot the berserker with the next closest soldier and repeat along the line. If executed properly the berserker will move from one soldier to the next each time getting closer to the soldier next in line to shoot him. This tactic is especially useful when using the alloy cannon, a weapon with great power but short range. It is also useful if you have a heavy with Bullet Swarm or a sniper with double tap because you can encourage the berserker to move into position instead of your soldier moving and only having 1 shot.

===Plan before you commit===

Do not use your soldier's turns separately, like, select unit 1, do something, select next unit, do something... First plan the movement and actions of all the soldiers, and only then commit to actually doing it. Instead of taking best shot possible with each soldier, one after another, it might be a good idea to first check which soldier sees which enemy, and has which chance to hit - for example, one of your squad sight snipers could only see one target with 100% CTH on it, and your other squad sight can see that target with 100% CTH on it, and another with 80% CTH on it - while it could seem as a better move to fire on the first target with the second sniper when you select him and look at available targets, doing so will mean you cannot do any reasonable damage with your first sniper this turn. Also, consider what opportunities indirect use of explosives may provide - you may first remove cover of several aliens, then shoot, to maximise your chance to hit, consider how you can move to improve your sight or chance to hit, etc. It is also a good idea to plan for the worst case scenario, having backup plans - for example, leaving Heavy's turn for last, so that he can blow enemies up in case you miss them, or, commit to firing first with your soldiers that are least in danger (snipers, or those behind good cover) so, in case enemies live, you can retreat your soldiers in low cover or in danger of being flanked, instead of having them already spent their turn and locked in a danger zone.

===High Cover vs Low Cover===

Low Cover not nearly as useful enough as High Cover. While in High Cover you can count on most likely not being hit, and Hunker Down behind it means in most cases that enemy will have 1% chance to hit you, Low Cover means you will most likely be hit than not, and Hunker Down will not save you from being hit as well. Generally, consider using Low Cover only when there is absolutely no way to use High Cover, and always place and advance your soldiers around the map by moving from high cover to high cover. You should never have exchange of shots with aliens with one of your front soldiers being behind Low Cover, except when you have no other choice (like, pinned down in a corner of a map, or all nearby high cover blown by explosives). Having even one unit behind low cover means aliens will focus their fire on that unit and very probably kill or damage it.

===Cover vs Firing and Hunker Down===

While shooting at enemies is always better than nothing, if you miss or don't kill the target, said shooter is exposed to return fire. Unless you are confident in the shot, or have a second shooter, it may be a good idea to hunker down.

Hunkering down in full cover gives -80 acc to enemy aliens, making it highly likely that nearly all alien shots will miss, or in the worst case scenario, non critical damage. This is especially useful for scouts, as they can mark targets for snipers and live to spot the next turn. Be sure to hunker down as the last move, so the scout spots for all your shooters.

A viable tactic using hunker down is putting snipers in the back (out of enemy LOS) and other units in enemy LOS but behind high cover and in Hunker Down. Enemies will either try to shoot with a very miniscule chance ot hit, relocate (sometimes flanking themselves or making themselves easier targets on subsequent turn) or just go overwatch. This effectively gives your sniper team extra turns to shoot at the aliens (and lower their numbers). However, watch out for enemies with AOE attacks like Thin Men or Mutons, since AI will use it without hesitation in such case.

Also remember that Heavy soldier can go into Hunker Down after he already fired once, if he has the Bullet Swarm perk.

===AI "Panic"===

If AI unit has no AOE attack, has no enemy in LOS which is exposed/flanked, is himself exposed/flanked, and sees a unit which is on overwatch, it will completely skip its turn. AI seems to run out of options and "panics". Therefore, you can "lock down" units like sectoids and floaters (on the ground), or Mutons if they already used their grenades, or Thin Men if you carry medkits, by simply flanking them with one of your units and putting one of your soldiers that is visible to them on overwatch (can be the flanker, can be different unit).

This can allow you to advance your Arc Thrower carrying soldier, or take free shots on the enemy until it dies, or just save yourself from harm. Using this is way superior to just taking the shot with your flanking unit, because in case you do not kill it, AI will move to cover on its turn and fire back, plus, in a situation when your unit flanks 2 or more enemies, he can only theoretically kill one of them (except using grenades, but then flanking was probably unnessecary), plus flanking does not always guarantee a hit, etc. However, by going overwatch, you can single-handedly keep all flanked enemies at bay while giving yourself freedom to deal with them in whichever way you prefer.

Notice, however, that you must have no units exposed/flanked by an alien locked that way, or alien will fire. Also watch out for aliens with grenades or other AOE attacks.

===Do not fear the enemy which is unknown===

Enemies can be in two states: activated or not. When you start a map, all aliens are not in activated state, and are bunched up in packs of up to 3. They roam the map (actually, teleport around the map until next teleport will put them inside your LOS, thats when they make a movement animation) or even stay in place until discovered. When spotted on your turn, or coming into your LOS on their turn, a small cutscene will play, and aliens will always make a move, usually into cover. They will never take an offensive action at the turn (yours or theirs) at which you met them. Only once activated, starting from their next turn, aliens start to act as individual units, taking turns in the same manner as player does. (two actions per turn, move/move or move/shoot, overwatch, etc.)

This means that as long as you have no activated aliens on the map, you are completely 100% safe from any kind of harm. You can have every enemy carry a grenade and yet bunch up your soldiers next to each other and never be in danger, as long as those enemies are not active yet. You can be in the open and never be in any danger as long as there are no active enemies on the map. You never have to fear an enemy that is not activated. In a situation when you have no active aliens on the map, you can play a completely different game, and to a big advantage.

While usually you'd try to stay mostly in high cover, spread up if enemy is carrying grenades, doing so when there are no active aliens can actually hurt you, because when they pop on their turn, only one or two of your soldiers will get a chance to react, since others will not yet have LOS on the enemy. Or, aliens may appear from the side of your line formation, meaning it takes you more than one move to get your soldiers into position to fire on spotted aliens. And so on. If you start thinking about situations when there are aliens on the map that are active and when there are not as separate situations, in case there aren't any active aliens it may be optimal not to stay in cover and spread out, but have cover reachable in 1 move, while staying bunched together, thus still being safe in case you cannot take down spotted aliens in one turn, but at the same time giving you benefit of having all your soldiers fire an overwatch shot against spotted aliens. Also, as long as you kill the spotted aliens in the turn you spotted them on (or in the turn that goes after the turn they came into your LOS, if it happened on their turn), you do not have to worry about going into cover, because you will again have no active aliens present on the map.

Also, notice that firing on an alien that you have spotted but that has not spotted you (this can rarely happen when you're behind cover, or easilly happen with battlescanner) will activate the pack, but only if you hit. If you miss, you will not activate them.

===Mind Wall===

If you are tired of mind controlling aliens after you got Psionics and if you have lucky to have 5/6 Psionic soldiers you can set your psi squad to be permanently in a Telekinetic Field that gives all units (including the aliens) inside +40 Defense. The ability has a 4 turn cooldown so you need 5 soldiers equipped with it to always have 1 unit activating it at the end of your turn.
This tactic works ideally on open areas like smaller UFO maps and most abduction and Council missions. Even if the aliens are protected within the field you just need not to set your soldiers on Overwatch so that they'll not fire at the aliens, and if you combine it with Dense Smoke and/or terrain cover you'll get +80 Defense stats. The only vulnerability of the field is to grenades, so take out first any aliens with explosive weapons.

===Capturing===

Capturing aliens is both incredibly useful and very difficult. Important points:
1. If an alien has more than three HP with a basic arc thrower, shoot it until it doesn't. Don't even bother trying to stun one with more HP except as a desperation tactic.
2. Arc Throwers are ''items'', not weapons. Run And Gun does not work with them
3. It's nearly impossible to get into cover in a position to stun.
4. Stunning has an inconvenient tendency to fail at the worst possible moment.

So, you need to shoot most aliens, but very carefully or you might kill them instead. Also, your soldier will likely die unless you've cleared out the other aliens and the stun works. Furthermore, you have to spend a turn pretty close to the target alien before trying to stun it. Basically, if a soldier is intended to stun a specific target, odds are good they won't come back.

Option one for dealing with this is to hand the arc thrower to a rookie you don't like. The upside is that you don't need to do anything all that fancy setting up for the stun, but the downside is that they might die before managing to stun anything, and you'll probably be out 20$, plus they aren't very useful aside from stunning things. Bear in mind that mind controlling enemies will usually go for the lowest Will soldier around, which is likely to be your rookie with the stunner.

Alternately, you can hand arc throwers to experienced soldiers, especially a support with sprint, in the best armor you have and use whichever is closest to a priority target. This makes a successful capture more likely, and if you distribute them you can stun targets of opportunity, such as Mutons, for their guns. Unfortunately, it also requires parking valuable soldiers near an alien to be shot at.

Fortunately, the most valuable targets, commanders, are frequently in areas with plenty of cover and if you're lucky a door. With careful positioning, you may be able to stun them the turn you kick down the door. Unfortunately, if you fail, both Ethereals and Sectoid Commanders may mind control your troops. Also, you'll need a plan for dealing with the Ethereal's bodyguard. It is highly likely you will suffer at least one fatality capturing an Ethereal. Happily there is no reason whatsoever to do so twice.

There are some common sense tricks to make captures easier:
* Capture the last enemy. Going for a stun while being shot at by 3 more aliens is obviously not a good idea.
* If things look bad, just shoot it. Capturing an enemy is rarely worth losing an experienced soldier for. There will always be another.
* Disabling Shot will shut down most enemies for one turn. It will also do a little damage to prepare them for the stun.
* Smoke grenades and Telekinetic Field are obvious ways to keep a soldier in a vulnerable position safer.
* You can pretty much bank on Sectoid Commanders using mind control on their first turn. This is good and bad, because it means you're essentially safe for the first turn approaching them because they'll cast MC and the controlled soldier can't act until the next turn. Ethereals may also use mind control, but not reliably.

Besides commanders, you want to capture enemies who have guns you want. Thin Men carry light plasma rifles to arm your early recruits, Mutons carry an upgraded version, and Muton Elites have heavy plasmas. Those three are the enemies you'll probably want to capture most often.

[[Category: Enemy Unknown (2012)]]

Tactics (EU2012)

2012-11-06T19:14:08Z

(name here): Capturing.

===General Tactics===

Leap frog your way forward on maps while also rotating through your squad's first move before deciding to perform a second move. 
Overwatch, or fire if you encounter something along the way. 
This helps you maintain battlefield awareness including map size, squad spacing, and flank openings.

It will also help make sure you have someone with a move left to take action should you encounter aliens.

Save putting your soldiers on overwatch until the end of the turn. This tactic is important for 2 reasons. 1. Aliens get a free move when they are seen and if the alien moves into view of a soldier that has already been put on overwatch they cannot use that turn to fire. You have to rely on them having a reaction shot during the alien's turn. 2. If you want to move them somewhere else you can't because they are locked once on overwatch.

Alternatively, put several secure units (like snipers) into overwatch before revealing enemies. Your soldiers will open fire on aliens as they scramble for cover and the penalty to reaction fire will be more than compensated by the absence of a cover penalty. If you follow this up with careful Run & Gun tactics you can clean up weaker groups before they have a chance to fire at you.

Also, with all the other equipment such as medkits and nano fiber vests and such, the grenade is often overlooked. It is a good idea to have at least one grenade on hand, because a grenade is guaranteed damage, regardless of cover. Better yet, it destroys cover, making a poor shot into an easy shot. Early on when accuracy is poor and weapons are weak a grenade is a great way to dispatch Sectoids.

Muton berserkers have a handy habit of chasing down the soldier that shot them. If unprepared, or early on in the game with weak weapons and soldiers, this can be hard to deal with. Later on in the game with stronger characters and weapons it can be used to your advantage. If there are 3 or more soldiers in a line/group use the first soldier on the end to draw the Berserker to the group. Then shoot the berserker with the next closest soldier and repeat along the line. If executed properly the berserker will move from one soldier to the next each time getting closer to the soldier next in line to shoot him. This tactic is especially useful when using the alloy cannon, a weapon with great power but short range. It is also useful if you have a heavy with Bullet Swarm or a sniper with double tap because you can encourage the berserker to move into position instead of your soldier moving and only having 1 shot.

===Plan before you commit===

Do not use your soldier's turns separately, like, select unit 1, do something, select next unit, do something... First plan the movement and actions of all the soldiers, and only then commit to actually doing it. Instead of taking best shot possible with each soldier, one after another, it might be a good idea to first check which soldier sees which enemy, and has which chance to hit - for example, one of your squad sight snipers could only see one target with 100% CTH on it, and your other squad sight can see that target with 100% CTH on it, and another with 80% CTH on it - while it could seem as a better move to fire on the first target with the second sniper when you select him and look at available targets, doing so will mean you cannot do any reasonable damage with your first sniper this turn. Also, consider what opportunities indirect use of explosives may provide - you may first remove cover of several aliens, then shoot, to maximise your chance to hit, consider how you can move to improve your sight or chance to hit, etc. It is also a good idea to plan for the worst case scenario, having backup plans - for example, leaving Heavy's turn for last, so that he can blow enemies up in case you miss them, or, commit to firing first with your soldiers that are least in danger (snipers, or those behind good cover) so, in case enemies live, you can retreat your soldiers in low cover or in danger of being flanked, instead of having them already spent their turn and locked in a danger zone.

===High Cover vs Low Cover===

Low Cover not nearly as useful enough as High Cover. While in High Cover you can count on most likely not being hit, and Hunker Down behind it means in most cases that enemy will have 1% chance to hit you, Low Cover means you will most likely be hit than not, and Hunker Down will not save you from being hit as well. Generally, consider using Low Cover only when there is absolutely no way to use High Cover, and always place and advance your soldiers around the map by moving from high cover to high cover. You should never have exchange of shots with aliens with one of your front soldiers being behind Low Cover, except when you have no other choice (like, pinned down in a corner of a map, or all nearby high cover blown by explosives). Having even one unit behind low cover means aliens will focus their fire on that unit and very probably kill or damage it.

===Cover vs Firing and Hunker Down===

While shooting at enemies is always better than nothing, if you miss or don't kill the target, said shooter is exposed to return fire. Unless you are confident in the shot, or have a second shooter, it may be a good idea to hunker down.

Hunkering down in full cover gives -80 acc to enemy aliens, making it highly likely that nearly all alien shots will miss, or in the worst case scenario, non critical damage. This is especially useful for scouts, as they can mark targets for snipers and live to spot the next turn. Be sure to hunker down as the last move, so the scout spots for all your shooters.

A viable tactic using hunker down is putting snipers in the back (out of enemy LOS) and other units in enemy LOS but behind high cover and in Hunker Down. Enemies will either try to shoot with a very miniscule chance ot hit, relocate (sometimes flanking themselves or making themselves easier targets on subsequent turn) or just go overwatch. This effectively gives your sniper team extra turns to shoot at the aliens (and lower their numbers). However, watch out for enemies with AOE attacks like Thin Men or Mutons, since AI will use it without hesitation in such case.

Also remember that Heavy soldier can go into Hunker Down after he already fired once, if he has the Bullet Swarm perk.

===AI "Panic"===

If AI unit has no AOE attack, has no enemy in LOS which is exposed/flanked, is himself exposed/flanked, and sees a unit which is on overwatch, it will completely skip its turn. AI seems to run out of options and "panics". Therefore, you can "lock down" units like sectoids and floaters (on the ground), or Mutons if they already used their grenades, or Thin Men if you carry medkits, by simply flanking them with one of your units and putting one of your soldiers that is visible to them on overwatch (can be the flanker, can be different unit).

This can allow you to advance your Arc Thrower carrying soldier, or take free shots on the enemy until it dies, or just save yourself from harm. Using this is way superior to just taking the shot with your flanking unit, because in case you do not kill it, AI will move to cover on its turn and fire back, plus, in a situation when your unit flanks 2 or more enemies, he can only theoretically kill one of them (except using grenades, but then flanking was probably unnessecary), plus flanking does not always guarantee a hit, etc. However, by going overwatch, you can single-handedly keep all flanked enemies at bay while giving yourself freedom to deal with them in whichever way you prefer.

Notice, however, that you must have no units exposed/flanked by an alien locked that way, or alien will fire. Also watch out for aliens with grenades or other AOE attacks.

===Do not fear the enemy which is unknown===

Enemies can be in two states: activated or not. When you start a map, all aliens are not in activated state, and are bunched up in packs of up to 3. They roam the map (actually, teleport around the map until next teleport will put them inside your LOS, thats when they make a movement animation) or even stay in place until discovered. When spotted on your turn, or coming into your LOS on their turn, a small cutscene will play, and aliens will always make a move, usually into cover. They will never take an offensive action at the turn (yours or theirs) at which you met them. Only once activated, starting from their next turn, aliens start to act as individual units, taking turns in the same manner as player does. (two actions per turn, move/move or move/shoot, overwatch, etc.)

This means that as long as you have no activated aliens on the map, you are completely 100% safe from any kind of harm. You can have every enemy carry a grenade and yet bunch up your soldiers next to each other and never be in danger, as long as those enemies are not active yet. You can be in the open and never be in any danger as long as there are no active enemies on the map. You never have to fear an enemy that is not activated. In a situation when you have no active aliens on the map, you can play a completely different game, and to a big advantage.

While usually you'd try to stay mostly in high cover, spread up if enemy is carrying grenades, doing so when there are no active aliens can actually hurt you, because when they pop on their turn, only one or two of your soldiers will get a chance to react, since others will not yet have LOS on the enemy. Or, aliens may appear from the side of your line formation, meaning it takes you more than one move to get your soldiers into position to fire on spotted aliens. And so on. If you start thinking about situations when there are aliens on the map that are active and when there are not as separate situations, in case there aren't any active aliens it may be optimal not to stay in cover and spread out, but have cover reachable in 1 move, while staying bunched together, thus still being safe in case you cannot take down spotted aliens in one turn, but at the same time giving you benefit of having all your soldiers fire an overwatch shot against spotted aliens. Also, as long as you kill the spotted aliens in the turn you spotted them on (or in the turn that goes after the turn they came into your LOS, if it happened on their turn), you do not have to worry about going into cover, because you will again have no active aliens present on the map.

Also, notice that firing on an alien that you have spotted but that has not spotted you (this can rarely happen when you're behind cover, or easilly happen with battlescanner) will activate the pack, but only if you hit. If you miss, you will not activate them.

===Mind Wall===

If you are tired of mind controlling aliens after you got Psionics and if you have lucky to have 5/6 Psionic soldiers you can set your psi squad to be permanently in a Telekinetic Field that gives all units (including the aliens) inside +40 Defense. The ability has a 4 turn cooldown so you need 5 soldiers equipped with it to always have 1 unit activating it at the end of your turn.
This tactic works ideally on open areas like smaller UFO maps and most abduction and Council missions. Even if the aliens are protected within the field you just need not to set your soldiers on Overwatch so that they'll not fire at the aliens, and if you combine it with Dense Smoke and/or terrain cover you'll get +80 Defense stats. The only vulnerability of the field is to grenades, so take out first any aliens with explosive weapons.

===Capturing===

Capturing aliens is both incredibly useful and very difficult. Important points:
1. If an alien has more than three HP with a basic arc thrower, shoot it until it doesn't. Don't even bother trying to stun one with more HP except as a desperation tactic.
2. Arc Throwers are ''items'', not weapons. Run And Gun does not work with them
3. It's nearly impossible to get into cover in a position to stun.
4. Stunning has an inconvenient tendency to fail at the worst possible moment.

So, you need to shoot most aliens, but very carefully or you might kill them instead. Also, your soldier will likely die unless you've cleared out the other aliens and the stun works. Furthermore, you have to spend a turn pretty close to the target alien before trying to stun it. Basically, if a soldier is intended to stun a specific target, odds are good they won't come back.

Option one for dealing with this is to hand the arc thrower to a rookie you don't like. The upside is that you don't need to do anything all that fancy setting up for the stun, but the downside is that they might die before managing to stun anything, and you'll probably be out 20$, plus they aren't very useful aside from stunning things.

Alternately, you can hand arc throwers to experienced soldiers, especially a support with sprint, in the best armor you have and use whichever is closest to a priority target. This makes a successful capture more likely, and if you distribute them you can stun targets of opportunity, such as Mutons, for their guns. Unfortunately, it also requires parking valuable soldiers near an alien to be shot at. You can use cover and smoke grenades to position them, use an assault with lighting reflexes to decoy any Overwatch, and then move in, but someone is probably going to get shot.

Fortunately, the most valuable targets, commanders, are frequently in areas with plenty of cover and if you're lucky a door. With careful positioning, you may be able to stun them the turn you kick down the door. Unfortunately, if you fail, both Ethereals and Sectoid Commanders may mind control your troops. Also, you'll need a plan for dealing with the Ethereal's bodyguard. It is highly likely you will suffer at least one fatality capturing an Ethereal. Happily there is no reason whatsoever to do so twice.

Besides commanders, you want to capture enemies who have guns you want. Thin Men carry light plasma rifles to arm your early recruits, Mutons carry an upgraded version, and Muton Elites have heavy plasmas. Those three are the enemies you'll probably want to capture most often.

[[Category: Enemy Unknown (2012)]]

Cult of Sirius

2010-01-13T22:43:31Z

(name here):

[[Image:Apoc_sirius_pedia.png|Cult of Sirius UFOPedia picture|right|100 px]]

== General Information ==
[[Image:Apoc_sirius_icon.png|left|50 px|]]
'''''Official Entry:''''' " This bizarre cult has whipped up a religious frenzy following the appearance of the [[Dimensional Gates|Dimensional Gates]]. The cult has long believed in redemption of the human race by a superior Alien race. They believe the UFOs and Aliens to be harmless and are rapidly gaining credibility and recruits from the general populations. This represents a considerable threat to [[X-COM (Apocalypse)|X-COM]] because the cultists will do anything to assist the Aliens in their purpose, whatever that might be."

== [[Cityscape (Apocalypse)|Cityscape]] Information ==
* Quickly and repeatedly raiding the Cult Temples at the beginning of the game can yield massive cash income, Agent experience, and tactical points for X-COM's weekly evaluation. And X-COM needs only to fear retribution from the Cult itself,) for such actions
* However, raiding the cultists can leave all your agents either very dead or very injured. Just remember that you are using basic weaponry at the start of the game, and cultists are using [[Marsec]] [[Marsec Heavy Launcher|Heavy Launcher]]s, [[Megapol]] [[Megapol Plasma Gun|Plasma Gun]]s, [[Marsec Minilauncher|MiniLaunchers]], and [[Marsec Proximity Mine|Proximity Mine]]s (as general explosives). The upside to that is that it is possible to obtain those weapons early by raiding the cult.

=== Buildings Owned ===
*[[Temple of Sirius (Apocalypse)|Temple of Sirius]]

=== Initial Attitude ===

==== Friendly/Allied To====
*[[Image:Apoc_aliens.png]] [[Aliens (Apocalypse)|Alien]]

==== Unfriendly/Hostile To====
* [[Image:Apoc_xcom.png]] [[X-COM (Apocalypse)|X-COM]]

== See Also ==
* [[Organizations]]
* [[Relations (Apocalypse)|Relations]]
 

{{Organizations Navbar}}

[[Category: Organizations]]

The Mysteries of X-COM

2009-11-08T19:39:24Z

(name here):

Discussion page for some less clear aspects of the series

==General issues==

==='''How fast can alien craft travel in space?'''===

Some alien missions (repeated attacks on X-COM bases, for instance) come daily. This seems to imply that alien craft are able to travel the distance from Mars to Earth in a matter of hours.

: Or maybe, as you suggest in your novels, they have a staging area near Earth, such as the dark side of the Moon. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 15:36, 25 February 2009 (CST)

::Really fast. Consider that they don't need to push aside atmosphere, as well as the fact that momentum is conserved in space, so they can achieve very high speeds with gravity slingshots. (Mars DOES have 2 moons, recall.) Also note that they may be operating a bit closer to home(the far side of the moon, perhaps?) it's simply that the command staff are at Cydonia. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 00:19, 26 February 2009 (CST)

Good article in last month's Scientific American pointing out we only rely on gravity slingshots because we still use chemical rockets with pathetic delta-V. Once 2nd and 3rd generation plasma engines come on line (1st gen are in flight now) the gravity slingshot will become an irrelevance. No doubt UFO drives are at least as good as our (future) 3rd gen plasma drives, probably way better since they warp space.

(Reminds me of the old Guild Navigator joke - I just warped space from Ix, and boy is my mind tired. Oh well, you had to be there)

[[User:Spike|Spike]] 13:24, 27 February 2009 (CST)

==='''What happens to crashed UFO craft and its crew?'''===

Downed alien craft disappear after a few days have passed. No explanation is given to this whatsoever, so what really happens to them?

Possible answers:
* The UFO and its occupants are recovered by other humans.
* The Aliens manage to repair the craft and fly back to space. (unlikely, in the event that the power plant blew up and they have no Elerium)
* The Aliens self-destruct the craft and kill themselves in the process to ensure that they won't be recovered by humans.
* The UFO Powerplant eventually suffers a meltdown and explodes, eliminating any vestiges of alien presence.
* The aliens destroy the UFO and disappear into the countryside.
* Most likely answer, IMHO: The local government/ funding nations give X-com a limited time window to launch any operation, similiar to what you see in covert ops movies: "Complete the mission within 36 hours, or we initiate Carpet Bombing of the area". This is very likely considering that each nation actually has jurisdiction, and X-com is operating each military op with permission and cooperation by local authorities. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 13:42, 25 February 2009 (CST)
*Similiarly, I assume that nations which have signed a pact with the aliens launch a rescue operation and assist their alien friends. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 13:42, 25 February 2009 (CST)
: In the UFO TV show, it's stated that alien craft and bodies degrade quickly in Earth's atmosphere, disappearing completely in hours or a few days. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 15:36, 25 February 2009 (CST)
:: If that was the case, then one of the gases present in the atmosphere would be very toxic to the aliens. They would be restricted on their activities outside their craft, not to mention they would have to terraform the planet to be able to live here. [[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 20:32, 26 February 2009 (CST)

:: As Zombie said, doesn't Alien Containment support this idea? [[User:Spike|Spike]] 13:24, 27 February 2009 (CST)

::Those are excellent suggestions. One of the X-COM books detailed that aliens throw up a force field around crashed UFOs to give them time to repair the craft. This would also explain the limited size of the Battlescape (the area of the force field...the field was thrown up before the crash, thus why the craft wasn't always centered in it) as well as why the Battlescape is devoid of human life(the aliens took care of that up front.) Similarly, large scale bombing works as well, as does the local government going in to clean it up themselves. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 00:19, 26 February 2009 (CST)
:::If there's a force field around the craft what is it supposed to repel? The atmosphere? Because humans have no problem entering the field and operating inside it. [[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 20:32, 26 February 2009 (CST)

::The force field was intended to keep humans out so the aliens were undisturbed. The first major hurdle X-COM had was figuring out a way to bypass those fields so they COULD get troops and aircraft inside. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 20:54, 26 February 2009 (CST)

===How do the aliens carry their equipment?===
Like human soldiers, aliens can carry weapons and equipment in locations like legs, belt, shoulders and backpack, regardless of the fact that some of their races even lack those anatomical features.

:Potentially a sticky gel-like area on the limb. Though really, since we were never intended to access alien inventories and the AI does all inventory management internally, this may simply be something that was never considered. Speaking from a slightly different standard, most aliens do not carry excessive amounts of gear; often their equipment would be able to fit in both hands. Also recall that Floaters and Ethereals have capes and robes(which may have inside pockets, or the Floaters could store them in the anti-grav/life support unit or inside surgically created body cavities during the installation, while Ethereals could support their excess gear with telekinesis), Mutons have armor(which may have external straps or adhesive areas), and Snakemen have an armor plate(which could have straps, adhesive, inside pockets, or even a backpack.) [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 00:19, 26 February 2009 (CST)

:We already know the answer to this one - they cheat! ;) [[User:Spike|Spike]] 13:24, 27 February 2009 (CST)

===Are X-COM transport craft piloted?===

:Almost certainly, since a remotely-piloted craft could be returned to base when the mission was aborted or failed. It's entirely possible that all X-COM soldiers are qualified pilots of the appropriate craft, since it would make no sense for X-COM to waste space on the plane for a noncombatant, or to have a single-point of failure on the mission like that. (The aliens could screw over the entire op by killing the pilot). It also explains why the craft is lost when the mission fails or is aborted with no one inside(lacking a pilot, the aliens are able to easily destroy it.) [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 00:19, 26 February 2009 (CST)

:: On the other hand, even a tank/hovertank is capable of getting the craft back to base. Perhaps there is an autopilot function. X-com craft are also infamous for choosing strange and bizarre intercept paths, based on latitude lines... almost as if they followed some a few simple lines of code from 1993 programming (bit of 4th wall breakage there...) -[[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]]

:Of course, given the tanks seem to be remotely piloted from an X-COM base, its possible that the tank being in the craft allows the Tank pilot to reroute into the control systems for the dropship and take it over. Limiting this to having the tank inside is a rather good idea. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 12:07, 27 February 2009 (CST)

:I recall that the various cutscenes in the PSX version had a pilot, most notably in the "Mission Failure" scene, where it shows the pilot being killed. --[[User:Mabmoro|Mabmoro]] 16:06, 13 March 2009 (EDT)

===What sort of physical process is used to increase human stats over time?===

The increases in some stats are easy explained by experience gained on missions (firing abiility, reactions, etc.). However, in the cases of physical stats (TUs, stamina, strength) the increase must be augmented by an artificial process, since it isn't easily explainable that humans can significantly increase body mass/speed/endurance just by physical activity/exercise.

:Lifting weights will increase strength. Running and cardio exercise will increase endurance, and performing the same task multiple times will allow you to perform it faster. I see no reason natural increase doesn't work. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 18:33, 26 February 2009 (CST)
::I assume that it is possible to a human to use those methods to double its physical condition, but that being the case why are X-COM recruits so... undeveloped? Maybe this is a more intriguing aspect. [[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 20:32, 26 February 2009 (CST)

What I don't get is that when someone gets blasted that they gain a lot of extra health. For crying out loud, the aliens are throwing around plasma and ridicoulously HUGE explosions. Shouldn't they be suffering from third-degree burns? I would expect them to at least have a major sore spot where they got hit. [[User:Tsunamiatunzen1|Tsunamiatunzen1]] September 24

:There's been arguments over whether the soldiers in X-COM are the Green Berets or equivalents of their various militaries, just average soldiers that volunteered for the job, or if the Council of Funding Nations is corrupt and is using this as an excuse to foist off their most useless soldiers onto the X-COM project. If the latter, it would easily explain their rather poor early stats. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 21:06, 26 February 2009 (CST)

::Maybe the stat increases relate to the troops getting more comfortable performing all operations - lifting, running, combat actions - when the aliens no longer scare the cr*p out of them so much. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 13:24, 27 February 2009 (CST)

:: I know what you mean... if this were Jagged Alliance, it'd be like trying to hire Mike and getting Gumpy instead... ouch! ... IMHO, it looks as if the COFN is being funny about this. Clearly, the troops assigned to X-com have had extensive weapons training... each and every one of them can use just about any standard weapon, including Rocket Launchers, incindieries, auto Cannons, etc. However, NONE of them have any combat experience, coming to you as fresh rookies. And their stats look as if they were selected based on a pot luck basis rather than screening among the elite troops... [[User:Jasonred]]

:Health isn't gained from getting shot. But as for the "ludicrously low stats" issue, maybe they're being selected on some other basis, or there's a real shortage of volunteers. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 04:56, 25 September 2009 (EDT)

==Enemy Unknown/UFO Defence issues==
==='''Why isn't Earth overrun by Snakeman/Chryssalids?'''===

According to the UFOPaedia, Snakemen's "Reproduction is asexual, with each snakeman carrying up to fifty eggs inside its body at any one time" adding the ominious conclusion: "Left to its own devices this species would be a severe threat to life on earth."
Moreover, this species is usually accompanied by the Chryssalids, which have a capacity to reproduce themselves very quickly using humans. So, any survivors of crash sites or terror attacks could start reproducing themselves hidden, resulting in large areas being overrun by those aliens later on.

Possible answers:
* Both races have a self-destruct mechanism incorporated into their psysiology to prevent this.
* The entire area is purged by large scale bombing. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 13:42, 25 February 2009 (CST)

::One thing suggested in fan data was that Snakemen have air tablets in their stomach...which may be different from earth's atmosphere, which would limit their lifespan in earth's atmosphere, also making egg-laying pointless, since the offspring wouldn't be able to breathe or survive. It has also been suggested that Chryssalids have a very rapid metabolism. Though Chryssalids are likely just as, if not more useful, as a threat or a bargaining tool. When attempting to get a nation to capitulate to their demands, the aliens could threaten to employ Chryssalids en masse, or offer to remove a mass infestation in exchange for the government's cooperation. Or even further, it's possible that Chryssalids are under Ethereal control and maintaining the control link at that distance is taxing, thus eliminating mass use of the creatures. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 00:19, 26 February 2009 (CST)

Two words: [[Alien Containment]]. That answers everything except for the UFOPaedia articles for the aliens themselves which contradict it. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 00:42, 26 February 2009 (CST)
: For captured aliens, yes. But what survivors of uninvestigated crash sites? [[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]]

::Zombie is commenting that based on the need for an Alien Containment unit, the aliens cannot survive in earth's atmosphere for extended periods, needing special atmospheric blends and/or nutrient pools which earth is unable to provide naturally, thus limiting their operations outside of the craft. (If the aliens won the war, it's likely this would be one of the first things that they would 'correct'.) [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 20:54, 26 February 2009 (CST)

===What is the propose of the 'disco balls' found inside some UFOs?===

:Given that they explode, they could be storage reservoirs for coolant for the computers or other systems. They could also be circuit breakers or electrical junction boxes, or even a component of the UFO's particle beam they use to fry X-COM Interception craft. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 00:19, 26 February 2009 (CST)

Here again, two words: [[Alien Entertainment]]. Even though the spheres are not set to Alien Entertainment in the MCD files, they are almost certainly related to the process somehow. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 00:42, 26 February 2009 (CST)

:Maybe they are for having discos? [[User:Spike|Spike]] 13:24, 27 February 2009 (CST)

:Presumably [[Alien Entertainment]] is psionic in some way, maybe they're Psi-Emitters or something? -[[User:magic9mushroom|magic9mushroom]]

===Who buys those alien bodies/equipment from X-COM?===

:Equipment likely goes to the funding nations or the international black market. No rebel group is going to ask too many questions about being offered guns that can [[Heavy Plasma|slice through the hull of an MBT]] or [[Alien Grenade|grenades that can level a building]] or [[Blaster Launcher|man-portable guided missiles]]; it'd just be cash-and-carry. Similarly, scientists would likely be interested in looking at much of this stuff for their own research. This would also explain the lack of market forces; the funding nations could have a set price for each item, or if X-COM is selling them under the table to rebels and rogue scientists, they can set the price and refuse to budge. The money on corpses could also be an "Alien Bounty" paid by the Funding Nations, as a reward for each alien that X-COM can prove they killed. Or it could be bought by other groups...rumor has it that some fast food restaurants have processes that can make ANY meat, no matter the source, look and taste the same, and a Muton would make a LOT of McBurgers. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 00:19, 26 February 2009 (CST)
From the USO (Kasey Chang): XARQUID SUSHI.

===How did the aliens got to Mars?===

There are no indications that UFOs are capable of faster than light speed. So how did they get to Mars in the first place?

:The UFOs are mission craft, used for the legwork. The fighters; we never see the carriers. Given the aliens have been proven to be interstellar, they either Clone-A-Crew as needed when coming the long way to keep the UFOs crewed, or its far more likely that the aliens did have or still do have larger "Carrier" ships, which are capable of FTL travel, that were/are further out in the Solar System that store and dispatch UFOs to mission locations. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 18:33, 26 February 2009 (CST)

:: One word: TFTD. The entire city of T'leth was put into cryogenic suspended animation? Or look at X-com Interceptor. X-com and the aliens show the ability to enter hyperspace or whatever it is.
::: T'Leth is another mystery of its own. More to that later on :) [[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 20:32, 26 February 2009 (CST)
::... there are no indications that the UFOs are INcapable of FTL... I don't think you would want to perform FTL travel within Earth's planetary atmosphere!
::: There are no indications that they are capable as well. And X-COM scientists don't seem to detect any FTL capabilities in UFOs during their research. And after the war the Elerium stocks dwindled, and it would make sense to perform some sort of interstellar missions to detect and harvest Elerium, however none are mentioned. [[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 20:32, 26 February 2009 (CST)
:::: Unless you count the events of X-com Interceptor? [[User:Jasonred]] [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 21:15, 26 February 2009 (CST)
::::: I am refering to the events between Enemy Unknown and TFTD. There is clearly a big distinction between the alien craft on EU and those of Interceptor. [[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 09:38, 27 February 2009 (CST)
::::: Enemy Unknown is set in 1999, TFTD in 2040, Interceptor in 2067... looks entirely plausible that they DID begin research into space exploration immediately after the events of Enemy Unknown. These things take time you know. Remember that the universe is a huge place, and Earth had rather limited Elerium Reserves by the end of EU. It takes... what, 30 Elerium just to fly an Avenger halfway across Earth? They could hardly afford to fly around randomly in space HOPING to come across elerium, they had to figure out detections methods, then scan the galaxy sector by sector, possibly partially using non-Elerium based propulsion at times... I can't remember if it's canon or fanfic, but I remember reading that all Elerium on Earth was reserved for space exploration.
As for FTL, Earth does get it for sure sometime between 1999 and 2067. And I'm pretty certain the technology is Elerium based. It's not a huge logic jump to assume that the aliens have access to FTL Elerium based tech.
Though I'm a bit puzzled why all T'leth technology is based on Zrbrite, when the aliens uniformly use Elerium, all the way from Earth to Cydonia to the far reaches of space. -[[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]]

:It takes 12 Elerium to fuel an Avenger, though how much 1 Elerium is is an ongoing debate. As for Elerium, it was reserved for propulsion research when the funding nations divvied up X-COM's resources, and then they blew it all without learning anything more than the original X-COM scientists. And yes, Earth clearly gets FTL after TFTD but before Interceptor. The reason Elerium is not used in TFTD is because Elerium becomes inert and useless upon contact with seawater. Similarly, seawater aggressively corrodes Alien Alloys and eventually completely dissolves them. Zrbite functions similar to Elerium, being gold mixed with alien bio-material. Unfortunately, Zrbite only works when supported by a massive energy grid created by T'leth and becomes inert upon its destruction. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 12:07, 27 February 2009 (CST)

OK... take the UNIT of elerium out of the equation... let's say that Earth had 5000 units of elerium, so 6 units get's an Avenger halfway around the world, and 12 units is sufficient to reach Mars. Hardly enough fuel reserves for intergalactic travel then.
2065 On October the 27th, the probe 'Tombstone 1' returns reports to Earth. It's data show that the globular star cluster where it rests, one hundred light-years from Earth, contains many life-supporting planets. Many of the planet's within the probe's scanning range also apparently possess great mineral wealth, including trace veins of elerium-115.
Hmm... So, mankind discovers FTL technology on their own in those 65 years? ah... come to think of it, if they've got non-Elerium based space travel and FTL, and more powerful weapons too, what's the big deal about Elerium in the Frontier? Does mankind even need it anymore?
As for T'leth, it is meant to be over 65 million years old, and CRASHLANDED on Earth due to a solar flare. Was the Ultimate Alien a prophet, thus chose to base T'leth on aqua plastics and Zrbite when T'lth was first constructed? Or did T'leth crash land, followed by frenzied activity where the entire city was replaced part by part, the alien alloys swapped for Aqua Plastics?
...
Actually, come to think of it, it's obviously a massive plothole due to limited timeframe, no point in discussing too deeply. Sigh... [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 13:50, 27 February 2009 (CST)

:It's implied that despite the loss of ability to use the alien technology from the First and Second alien wars, simply being able to see and examine their designs catapulted earth's technology forward at least a few decades...which really is entirely reasonable. Much of the technology can be replicated on earth, and the principles and designs can be reapplied.

:As for the deal with Elerium, its needed to power stronger weapons and is also wonderful for power generation; its efficiency in power generation is what allows Mega Primus to even exist.

:And was there anywhere that specifically said that T'Leth was made of Aqua Plastics? I don't recall. Yes, the rest of their subs are made of aqua plastics, but I'm wondering if something the size of a medium city might perhaps be made of something a bit more durable. PS: Thanks for signing your post! :D [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 14:17, 27 February 2009 (CST)

It's not a plothole at all. There is no Elerium on Earth, whereas the aliens can manufacture Zrbite on Earth, since there's gold here. Therefore it's obvious why they used Zrbite. Also, there's the fact that it was an Aquatoid colony mission, intended to produce an "aquatic paradise", so using Aqua Plastics instead of Alien Alloys is perfectly justified. [[User:magic9mushroom]]

... I think Alien Alloys alone would catapult earth's technology forward a decade, and there's no reason humanity can't use those anymore, just not in water. According to timeline, some space pirates manage to make the decommisioned Avengers run on non-Elerium fuel... a large technological step.
By the time of Interceptor, Elerium weapons aren't that powerful. Good point about power generation though.
I would assume that T'leth SHOULD have been constructed out of Alien Alloys, since it was originially an interplanetary vessel? Generally, everything in EU was made of Alien Alloys, everything in TFTD was made out of Aqua plastics. Both of which seemed plenty durable.

::Have you noticed that the UFOs fly however their mission parameters tell them to? The UFOs pretty much IGNORE interceptions by X-com craft... if their mission tells them to make 3 passes, speed up, slow down, speed up... they will follow that pattern exactly, whether X-com craft are firing on them or not.

::Question: How long does it take the Avenger to reach Mars from Earth? [[User:Jasonred]] [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 19:12, 26 February 2009 (CST)
:::No longer than a week, in my opinion. Probably less than 2 days. Since canonically, the design of the Avenger had the Cydonia mission in mind, it would be capable of very high interplanetary speeds. (You could choose to burn 40% of the Elerium in one blast to get to high speed. Or you could burn even more and refuel while it's landed...or it could be a mission with no guaranteed escape for the crew. The lives of the many over those of the few and all that, especially since the war hinges on the mission.) In addition, you can fit a full complement of soldiers on board with no real excess room for supplies, and the longer it takes to get to Mars, the greater the chance the aliens will spot it coming for them and mount a serious defense. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 19:20, 26 February 2009 (CST)
:::If you'd burn that much fuel to accelerate the craft then you'd have to use as much again to decelerate it and attain a planetary orbit, otherwise you'll simply overshoot the planet and head towards outer space. This is also another aspect to take into account when thinking about the speed of UFOs. [[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 20:32, 26 February 2009 (CST)

::: UFO drives are non-Newtonian so those sort of rocket equations don't necessarily apply. I think filling up a car with gas is a closer analogy. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 13:24, 27 February 2009 (CST)

::That would leave 20% of the fuel to take off the Avenger and land it. Not really that unreasonable. While they're landed, they could potentially refuel the Avenger, or the mission might have been planned as a 1-way trip from the get-go. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 21:06, 26 February 2009 (CST)

===What happened to Mars and the alien civilization there?===

According to the Brain, Mars was blooming with life had a alien civilization millions of years ago. However, Mars nowadays is a barren world and the alien civilization seems reduced to the area on Cydonia.

:That may well have been before Mars lost the majority of its atmosphere due to its weak magnetic field. As the atmosphere dissipated, the aliens left or died off. It's also possible that the aliens, shown in the game over to have little respect for planets other than as sites for slaves and resources, they strip-mined the planet dry(and the rust from the machines created the red coloring), and then seeded Earth so that the slave workforce would grow for future extraction of Earth's resources. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 18:33, 26 February 2009 (CST)

===Where are the human-alien hybrids referred to on the UFOPaedia?===

:For the ones on earth, probably in hiding or in laboratories for research. For the ones the aliens have, potentially improving the Sectoid gene pool or being used as food or menial tasks. Cloning is alot easier than making genetic hybrids and there's nothing that says their first-generation experiments would be suitable for combat. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 18:33, 26 February 2009 (CST)

:: They are babies at the time of X-com, and few in number. Their aren't even that many of them by the time of X-com Apocalypse. [[User:Jasonred]] [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 19:12, 26 February 2009 (CST)

:Not to mention the ones in X-COM: Apocalypse are less-than-fit for battle before extensive training. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 21:06, 26 February 2009 (CST)

===Why did the aliens only activate T'Leth after they were defeated?===

On TFTD T'Leth is shown as an entity/city of major power that is capable of conducting a war on its own. But the aliens leave it dormant although they could have used it to speed the process of taking control of Earth.

:Perhaps the Enemy Unknown aliens are legitimately scared of the TFTD aliens and are unsure how long they could trust them. Evil is not monolithic; the TFTD aliens may be more interested in themselves than the alien empire, so they were kept as an ace-in-the-hole. This is the same reason (canonically) that SKYNET did not originally send the T-1000 to assassinate Sarah Connor; SKYNET was scared of what the T-1000 could do and had only a bare minimum of control over it, so it only used it as an option when it had nothing left to lose. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 21:06, 26 February 2009 (CST)

T'Leth is in fact so powerful that all it has to do is surface, in order for X-com to be considered to have lost the war.
In fact, looking at the timelines, it takes 40 years for T'leth to wake up from it's slumber... that's one good reason not to use it. By the time it activated, the war would already be over. [[User:Jasonred]]

Because the whole purpose of the Enemy Unknown aliens was to rescue the TFTD aliens from T'leth, and there was no way of seeing whether the T'leth-based invasion in TFTD would even work - from their perspective it's possible that getting T'leth to bootstrap itself could have caused a catastrophe (they don't know whether or how badly it's damaged). Presumably the aliens planned to mount a proper rescue operation after locking down Earth and readying it for the aquatic paradise that was the entire point of the T'leth expedition in the first place. [[User:magic9mushroom]]

===Why did the aliens use limited force during the First Alien War?===

Imagine Independence Day or War of the Worlds: UFO above the major Earth cities destroying the national leadership and any resistance. Or simply announce to Earth that they are now a part of their empire and resistence is futile. Instead, they go 1 mission each day, allowing humans to capture their craft, research their technology, discover their intentions and mount a successful defense. Don't the aliens watch sci-fi movies to see how it should be done?

:Perhaps they don't have the standing forces to do so, and are in the process of building up the forces needed to do so. Perhaps they don't want to wipe out the entire power structure too fast; they want to leave some pieces in place for when they rebuild. Perhaps they're too condescending to think that humanity ever really has a chance; they've probably conquered thousands of other planets without anyone ever successfully resisting them. Perhaps they consider the X-COM project to be a rearguard action that, while a valiant effort and a credible threat, is ultimately doomed to failure because they simply cannot win in the end, which is why they undermine it. Indeed, the reason you need to launch the Cydonia mission in order to win is because X-COM simply cannot stop the aliens in a ground war; the aliens have an effectively infinite supply line and standing forces(though nothing says they're all waiting to swamp the earth), and the only way to win is to kill the command staff(which the aliens believe X-COM will not be able to do, lacking both knowledge of where the Brain is and any practical means to get there.) [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 21:06, 26 February 2009 (CST)

The aliens are completely lacking in weapons of mass destruction. When you get right down to it, their aircraft are very fast, manuevarable and durable, but they have rotten firepower. Even the battleship is unable to bring down an Interceptor in 1 shot.
The terror missions and X-com Base Defences prove that the Aliens are unable to simply launch orbital bombardments... in fact, they appear to have no Air to Land weapons whatsoever...
When you get right down to it, the aliens are pretty stupid. Also, their scientists seem inferior to Earth's. Seems to me that they only had the advantage of Elerium deposits and thus elerium based research.
X-COM was unable to win in an all-out war with the aliens, but remember that X-com is a small little covert group with several dozen soldiers and a handful of aircraft. Can you imagine the result if the aliens had caused a joint war effort by the UN? You would have Lockheed factories converted to Avenger production, several platoons of soldiers outfitted with Flying Suits, Lasers, Heavy Plasma, thousands upon thousands of Laser Tanks...
I would say that keeping the fight to covert action on both sides was actually beneficial to the aliens, really. [[User:Jasonred]]
* Nope, the aliens could just invoke John's Law and blow up the planet with a kamikaze battleship at .9c. Even failing that, the alien battlefleet could come in numbers sufficent to blot out the sun.--[[User:(name here)|(name here)]] 14:39, 8 November 2009 (EST)

==TFTD issues==
===What was the relationship between the aliens from the 1st and 2nd wars?===

Quoting from the UFOPaedia regarding Alien Origins: 'Deep in the oceans there lie ancient
sites used by the Aliens to contact their stellar cousins.' This also has some implications regarding the issue of why T'Leth was only activated when the Sectoids were defeated.

*Gill Men are coopted Terran creatures, Aquatoids are a differently-modified Sectoid breed, Lobstermen are machine soldiers that are manufactured, Tasoths are clone soldiers that are grown.

===What kind of materials were 'synomium' and 'adamantium'?===

The first one is mentioned on the name of the alien communication devices and the second one appears at the end when T'Leth is destroyed: 'he twisting hugeness of T'leth begins to rupture.
Flames and smoke spew from its gleaming spires and adamantium halls.'

:Synomium is probably a special material used in the comm. devices, like Stargate's naquadah (universal stuff), naquadria (unstable power source), trinium (hull material) and neutronium (superdense metal). Adamantium is a legendary material in ancient literature that is said to be indestructible, similarly to mithril.--[[User:Amitakartok|amitakartok]] 10:55, 3 November 2009 (EST)

===How deep were X-COM bases located on the seas?===

*Floating bases would be easier to build, repair and supply. However they would have to be tethered to the ocean bed or possess some sort of propulsion to prevent them from drifing with the ocean currents. But it would also allow for easy redeployment of the base.
*Submersible bases could allow for better sonar detection. Same problems regarding ocean currents would apply. In case of hull breaches entire modules would be quickly flooded and any crew present would be crushed by water pressure or drown. Base could be built and then submerged (requires depth control)
*Seabed bases would be the hardest to build and supply. Several other factors could limit their deployment, such as instable areas (underwater volcanos, prone to seaquakes, rock avalanches, etc.) and depths.
*Given that the Alien Retaliation missions in TFTD are called "Floating Base Attack", I'd say floating. Also remember that your starting sonar can't see Very Deep, which rules out seabed bases. [[User:magic9mushroom]]

[[Category: Fiction]]

Skipping Gauss Weapons

2009-08-13T02:43:29Z

(name here):

==General Discussion==

In Xcom, researching laser weapons first is considered a matter of course... after all, you didn't want to be still using pistols and rifles when the Mutons arrive. Heck, even snakemen were hard to put down with those things.

However, in TFTD, Gauss has some huge failings. Using Ammo (a HUGE difference in the 2 stage terror missions and the alien artefact sites!), enemy resistances against Gauss are huge...

In my last few TFTD games, I skipped Gauss entirely and completely. Instead, as soon as I captured alien tech, I concentrated on Sonic Weapons, as well as Aqua plastics and armor.

Note that researching up to Gauss Rifles (with clips) takes 660 scientist days, 1350 for Heavy Gauss (with clips). Sonic Pistol + Clip take 1000 days.

The whole POINT of laser weapons in Xcom was that, early on, you could make do with terrestial weapons (actually, the explosive weapons stay good til the end of the game). Researching Laser Weapons gave you something powerful for when the tougher aliens started appearing.
Laser rifles killed anything except Superhuman Sectopods with good efficiency.

Gauss Weapons... when the tougher aliens start appearing, Gauss becomes really weak and not very useful. Lobstermen laugh these off, Tasoth's take quite a few shots from this...

And the item management issue. Sigh. Laser Weapons were much treasured for the ability to bring in 20 soldiers to the mission and only need 20 item slots. Those Gauss things... aargh. You gotta bring at least 60 items, 20 guns and 40 clips, and even that will get spent really fast.

Overall, I would say that Laser Weapons are a very good long term investment in Xcom... you spend 450 lab days and a few engineering weeks, and you use them for the entire campaign. Gauss, you spend longer in engineering, and then you only use Gauss for maybe a month before realizing that you have to throw it away and rely completely on sonic weapons.

NKF seems to favor gauss... personally, I don't bother using it anymore. ... Any other opinions among you Xcommies out there?

:Well Gauss weapons do have some uses. First of all though, if you are equipping squads based on what you learned in the first game, you'll have problems. Gauss weapons are not meant to be an entire team weapon like lasers were in EU. Weapon diversification is the name of the game in TFTD. Also, gauss has damage modifier issues which can make it totally ineffective against some (actually most) aliens. But Gauss does have something Sonic does not: Auto Shot. I find it useful when storming the inside of a USO. Accuracy at such close quarters is basically a non-issue. Damage from the sonic line is greater, but you will only be able to use Snap or Aimed shots. An Auto Shot from a Gauss Rifle is just as good as a Sonic Pistol since it's putting 3 shots on the target instead of 1. Of course, Gauss isn't going to do much against a few aliens so in this case Sonic has to be the primary weapon used. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 10:55, 4 April 2009 (EDT)

:: I've always considered it a stepping stone technology myself rather than a long lasting technology like laser tech. No - that honor goes to the drills. Such a pity they can't attack terrain!

:: Despite its damage being completely nerfed by the damage modifiers, autoshot for the gauss pistol and gauss rifle more than make up for it. The gauss weapons are mainly replacements for your jet harpoons and work very well against all the aliens you meet until you start fighting the lobstermen. By then you should've developed better weapons. In fact you would be wise to supplement them with sonic pulsers early into the game for when you need that extra punch. You can just as easily get by with Gas Cannons (and you can - they're awesome), but Gauss weapons fill the niche of your fast/weak assault weaponry that is valuable for your forward soldiers.

::Is it a waste of research time though? Well - that's entirely up to you. It might matter if its your first time playing the game or if you're trying to run a speed game. But there's only a finite amount of technology available, so you can easily pick and choose the one you want right away and get the rest when there's not much else to do. No rush to T'Leth after all. But that's just how I approach the game. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 16:04, 4 April 2009 (EDT)

:::Well one aspect that is quite similar to EU is the payoff for researching Gauss is the economic aspect, to manufacture Gauss Cannon for profit. So there is not just the tactical benefits to consider, there are also economic benefits for researching the Gauss stream. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 18:04, 4 April 2009 (EDT)

:OMG, The Gauss/Laser Cannons. Geez. Takes QUITE a lot of researching to get them, and they're not as useful as Avalanche Missiles. The only point behind them is that you can sell them for big profit. GEEZ. ... Xcomutil's profit nerf renders them COMPLETELY useless, IMHO. In fact I'll add that to the wiki? ... But that's a good point, Spike.

:No, you are right, there is no rush to T'leth. The rush is in researching Psi/MC, actually. Meh. ... Actually, NKF, I had a number of games (especially on Superhuman) where Lobstermen appeared far earlier than might seem reasonable. (of course the aliens should logically be very uhnreasonable and wipe you out with maximum force right from the start...). I found that not having researched Sonic when you get your first Lobsterman Terror Mission is a little horrifying.

: Also, those freaking tentaculats! Freaking Flying Chryssalids! Erk. These alone make reaction fire very VERY important in TFTD. And, since reaction is always snap shot, I found that Gauss was never enough to save my agents from zombification, only sonics gave them a chance to survive.

: I don't see how Gauss is a stepping stone to Sonics. It's more like a detour. (It is obvious Gauss Rifle is stepping stone to Gauss Cannon though).

: The fact that auto-fire makes Gauss really powerful in close combat, eg when fighting in an alien craft, is a very very good point! ... However. DRILLS. Hmm hmm hmm.

: Analysing the 4 races, Aquatoid and Gillmen can be easily dealt with via standard store bought equipment. Tasoth only take 70% Gauss damage and 120% sonic damage! Lobstermen laugh at Gauss. So, I find that using store bought Gas Cannons, and Hydrojet Cannons on Aquatoids and Gillmen seems to be very adequate to my needs. Especially, early on, my men have shit for accuracy and explosive ammo is uber... heck, those Terror units are pretty freaking resistant to Gauss too.

: Anything, Gauss can do, Heavy Explosive does better. :) [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 22:31, 4 April 2009 (EDT)

Gauss is not a literal stepping stone, as in a prerequisite. It just gives your troops a good start in the battlefield, allowing you to concentrate more on building up your resources and other supports so that you can start phasing in the sonic weapons.

Experiences will vary from player to player regarding the appearance of the Lobstermen - so you just have to deal with them as they appear, such as avoiding them or getting really good with the Thermal Tazer! (Coincidentally, did we ever bust the myth about sonic weapon research accelerating their appearance?)

But because we all have different ways we like to approach the game: You don't ''have'' to force yourself to use gauss if you don't want to. The game's lenient enough to let you decide how you want to cook your seafood.

Is till consider the first two gauss weapons as some of the best weapons you can start with. Perhaps not as powerful as the Gas Cannon, but they are still light and fast and come packed with lots of ammo. The high ammo does it for me, as I tend to go through it very quickly even when I take careful shots.

The mighty Gas Cannon can definitely be used in lieu of gauss (which is why I made special mention of it in the TFTD Best Starting Weapon Summary), but you have to be extra mindful of its ammo.

Then there's always the option of just researching the Sonic pistol after your first mission. Because it's still early into the game, ammo conservation will also be a major concern. We won't always be lucky enough to gather large amounts of ammo and might use more ammo than they can gather.

Weapon diversification often wins the day in TFTD's early stages and helps save the more precious ammo. If you can accommodate all three somehow, that's even better. I like my dual pistols thank you very much!

Not going to argue about the Sonic Pistol being a good reaction fire weapon. It has equal cost and accuracy as the Gauss Rifle. The Gauss Pistol is the best weapon for reacting with that can still damage a superhuman Tasoth (from the back). The absolute best weapon to react with in this game (and I really hate to say this) is the Dart Gun. Great training weapon nonetheless. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 03:26, 5 April 2009 (EDT)

: Depends what you mean by "best to react with". There's a) Makes you perform a lot of reaction shots and thus good for training. b) Kills your enemy.

: I had some shipping lane missions. Somehow ended up burning all my Gauss ammo, ALL of it, by the end of the mission only 4 men out of my 14 men team could fire their weapons. Later on I did the missions with Sonics, and my ammo was just fine. Though this was quite some time ago, so maybe my memory gets faulty or something. ... crap. I remember getting Synonium Device missions early on as well. Those could get pretty hairy without Sonics, though I recall completing them with Gauss, albeit they were more of a headache.

: I found that the Hydrojet Cannon was pretty darn great for underwater missions, actually. ... Comparing Gauss and Underwater only weapons... how many Land Missions against Gillmen and Aquatoids do you go through? ... How many missions against Tasoth and Lobstermen do you go through? ... Actually, I found that there were 2 playstyles. A) was to have a generic loadout for all missions. B) was to manually setup each loadout based on mission type. ... Overall, I found that before you get Transmission Resolver, you have no idea what type of alien you are going to be facing. However, you ALWAYS get warning before hand whenever the mission will be on land. Therefore, it is a PAIN, but it is very very possible to use Torpedo Launchers and Hydrojets in your normal games, and switch loadouts during land missions. (That's what I'm forced to do once I get DPLs, so I might as well get used to it, i guess?) However, having a team with a loadout for Aquatoids and meeting Lobstermen = abort mission.

: Actually, I don't really consider Gauss to be "starting weapons". Truth be told, on Superhuman, by the time you get them, even rushing, it can be a little late in the game. Especially if you have to spend a lot of money making your base defensible. Same for laser weapons, really. Of course, in Xcom, the weapon flow is always : purchased weapons -> Laser Pistol -> Laser Rifle -> Heavy Plasma -> Psi. In TFTD, the enemy upgrades itself to Rifles so fast on superhuman, that I found my weapon flow to be : Purchased Weapons -> Sonic Rifle -> Psi. Hmm. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 10:29, 5 April 2009 (EDT)

:: "Best to react with" is as you say dependent on what you want. The Sonic Pistol is still the best to react with in the sonic family. The faster but depresslingly weaker dart gun for example would only be useful to interrupt a tentaculats charge. Ever notice how melee enemies seem to break off their charge after a reaction shot, then resume the charge on the next? Something like that anyhow. Not something to rely on exclusively. Much rather blast it to bits with sonic weapons any day - or poke it in the back with a drill.

:: I actually experience a lot of land missions in the form of shipping lane missions, and the various terror sites that underwater fights seem rare at times. But this varies from game to game, obviously. That's why I'm a little wary of using predominantly under-water-only loads and try going for mixed kits involving all sorts of equipment (to the point of having 1 gas cannon even in the late game when I'm almost entirely using sonics). Good thing the underwater restriction stops the aliens from using the DPL though. Love that aspect of it. No so for the HjC.

:: Gauss is a starting weapon in the sense that you have it right from the very start (even though you need a bit of research), and you don't have to go out and get anything to be able to get it. Also, some players are lucky (or should I say unlucky?) enough to get a few gauss pistols built before they go on their very first mission. Have had this happen to me a few times on superhuman after the first couple of subs I spotted fled from my Barracudas. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 02:17, 6 April 2009 (EDT)

: I, personally, like to research sonic rifle first. By the time research done, I already have several rifles. Even if clip research is not ready, it's possible to fire from trophy weapons. (At start I buy gas cannons and dump all other weapons. Works nice.) Research sequence goes as Sensor->Medikit->Sonic Rifle->it's clip->armor or Sonic Cannon.

== Gauss vs. AP comparison ==

Just glancing at the damage modifier table for TFTD, a few observations come to mind. For the early aliens that you are expected to be using AP and Gauss weapons against (aquatoid, gillmen, Deep Ones and Calcinite - generally), most of the damage multipliers are roughly the same. Note this refers to non-explosives.

Both types do:
* 100% vs. aquatoids and Gillmen
* 90% vs. Deep Ones.

That means that both AP (in the form of GC-AP) or gauss weaponry are quite fair against these enemies. There's one alien that differs somewhat.

* Calcinite, 100% AP vs 90% Gauss

That's not too bad a difference. You should be able to get past these aliens and move onto sonic weaponry before the higher tier aliens show up.

These two damage types start to really fluctuate in effectiveness against the higher tier enemies and the terror units. (do note that using lower tier weapons on higher tier aliens is often asking for trouble)

AP does better vs:
* Tasoth 80% AP vs. 70% Gauss.
* Xarquids and Biodrones 100% AP vs. 70% Gauss
* Triscene 90% AP vs. 80% Gauss.

Gauss does better vs:
* Lobstermen 20% AP vs. 30% Gauss (slightly less useless)
* Hallucinoids 60% AP vs 80% Gauss

What a mixed bunch Gauss and AP are! You probably will have upgraded to Sonic by the time you meet these guys, but some of the above is worth knowing.

Finally, one last observation about Gauss vs. AP: Against your own units.

* Unarmored and Plastic Aqua Armor: 100% AP vs. 100% Gauss
* Ion Armor/Mag Ion Armor: 90% AP vs. 80% Gauss
* SWS: 95% AP vs. 60% Gauss

AP's really earning its own title of "Armor Piercing" in TFTD. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 05:20, 6 April 2009 (EDT)

==Research Time Comparison==

=== Gauss vs Sonic ===

Ref Avg TOT.
0 50 50 Gauss Tech
29 100 150 Gauss Pistol
62 60 210 Gauss Pistol Clip
30 300 510 Gauss Rifle
63 150 660 Gauss Rifle Clip
31 460 1120 Heavy Gauss
64 230 1350 Heavy Gauss Clip
32 420 1770 Craft Gauss Cannon
8 600 600 Sonic Pistol
9 400 1000 Sonic Pistol Clip
6 700 1700 Blasta Rifle
7 400 2100 Blasta Clip
4 800 2900 Sonic Cannon
5 400 3300 Cannon Power Clip

=== Research discussion ===

An average of a thousand scientist-days of research is needed before you have a usable Sonic weapon - and you can't start until after your first combat. The Gauss weapon sequence delivers progressively better weapons at 210, 660, and then 1350 days. An additional 420 days (total 1770) unlocks the economic benefits of Gauss Cannon manufacturing. And each of these Gauss weapons is its own "stepping stone", a significant improvement on anything else available (so skipping research on the Clips is not sensible). Though, as has been discussed, in TFTD you need a mix of weapons.

The decision to develop Gauss weapons as a stepping-stone weapon may hinge on how much Research capability is available. If you have 50 scientists from the outset (or by your first combat), you may be able to afford to wait out the average of 20 days using only standard weapons. Even then it is likely to be a while before you have the manufacturing capability, or looting success, to arm all your aquanauts with Sonic weapons. Though if you tend to use small squads, that will be easier.

Personally I develop Gauss weapons from the outset. When I get my first Sonic Pulser, I switch to developing that, as it is easily scavenged and a massive equaliser. I develop Gauss weapons at least as far as Gauss Rifle. Unless I'm going down a Manufacturing Profitability route, I'm not so sure about proceeding to Heavy Gauss. The additional 690 days is not so far off the 1000 required for functioning Sonic Pistols. With Gauss Rifles and Sonic Pulsers in hand, you can manage pretty well during the delay in researching Sonic Pistol. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 10:05, 5 April 2009 (EDT)

: Your totaling is incorrect, as Sonic weapons are independent of eachother on the research tree. So reaching sonic cannon only takes 1200 days if you decide to skip the earlier ones. --[[User:(name here)|(name here)]] 22:43, 12 August 2009 (EDT)

==See Also==
[[Weapon Analysis]]

[[TFTD Research Sequences]]

Talk:Sectopod

2008-12-13T15:40:16Z

(name here):

Spike, re the effectiveness list you added and the stun bombs.

Don't forget that stun bombs (including HE) work against under-armour on direct hits, and this also counts for all adjacent tiles that it affects. Directional armour only comes into play beyond ground zero + 1 tiles, so direct hits on the Sectopod are obviously the most effective.

The higher the difficulty level though, the less effective the stun bombs become as the armour increases. On easier difficulty levels you can often knock them out with just one bomb with a fair amount of regularity, even with non GZ+1 attacks. On superhuman, you have to make direct hits, even then you might need several tries. Still, I suppose it's a lot better than whittling them away slowly with the other weapons.

- [[User:NKF|NKF]] 22:31, 3 September 2008 (PDT)

== Armour and Explosions ==

Thanks NKF! I had forgotten the mechanics of directional armour and explosions. I will definitely review in the light of that. Are you sure about armour level and difficulty though? The Ufopaedia article [[Alien Stats]] that I checked for this note says the armour is halved at Beginner but otherwise constant at all difficulty levels. Obviously Health (damage capacity) does increase with difficulty so this will affect the numer of hits required to kill, but not whether the weapon is effective/totally ineffective. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 01:53, 4 September 2008 (PDT)

: A combination of higher health and armour is the most likely result. I don't remember ever comparing mid-level aliens to see if their armour levels matched their beginner/superhuman counterparts. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 02:50, 4 September 2008 (PDT)

OK right you are! With armour mechanics working that way, impacting Bottom armour for all squares of the Terrorist with a direct hit... you'd get about 50 total penetrating damage from a typical Stun direct hit, around 200 total from a Blaster Bomb direct hit. The Large Rocket enters the equation, albeit with a negligible 5 points for an average hit. I can't compute the actual averages because I haven't modelled the step function of HE damage reduction in my averaging function. This compares to 30 points per turn of fire from a (standard) Heavy Laser (74/turn from an XCU Heavy Laser) - assuming hte 130 point side armour is the 'typical' target of the Heavy Laser. I'll tweak the rankings - thanks for the input! [[User:Spike|Spike]] 14:14, 4 September 2008 (PDT)

Checking the [[Explosions]] page, I see the Under Armour rule applies to thrown Explosive weapons as well as fired/launched Explosive weapons. So I've added in the HE Pack as well (average 10 points/explosion, plus a small splash effect I haven't calculated). [[User:Spike|Spike]] 13:00, 5 September 2008 (PDT)

== Laser Vulnerability Explanations ==

[Jasonred] : The game explains that its "Sensing circuitry is particularly vulnerable to laser fire".

[--[[User:X-COM:Turcocalypse|X-COM:Turcocalypse]] 14:26, 15 April 2006 (PDT)] : Bad sci-fi idea,I laughed when I saw it first.Laser is after all,radiation stimulated super-dense light.If it's vulnerable to this,how can PLASMA,matter with 15000 Grad Celsius shrugged off?
:I guess that it's armor is thick enough that neither plasma's nor laser's heat would effect it. But spark from laser make it's sensor circuit mess-up and since it's quite powerful, Ethereal program it to shutdown the system once sensor damaged to prevent friendly-fire.

Actually, lasers were planned for use in anti-ICBM space weapons platforms not because of the heat damage from a laser blowing up the missile, but because of the effect it has on sensing equipment. That makes this based in reality, though it should have also applied to all other sensing apparati as well. We have less of a clue how the alien weapons work since they are most certainly not a literal 'plasma' gun, so it's very possible the sensing circuts are shielded to common alien weapons but not to relatively rare lasers. Only other sectopods use lasers, afterall. [[User:Covenant|Covenant]] 19:13, 11 December 2008 (CST)

:Good comments there Covenant. Here's a related possibility: since the Ethereals suppress the intelligence of the Sectopods, maybe they fear a "Revolt of the Machines". In which case, since Sectopods are very hard even for Ethereals to stop, it would make sense to make them vulnerable to their own weapons (only). In this way, "loyal" Sectopods could take care of any "rogue" Sectopods. As for the physics of it, we must conclude that the material properties of Sectopod armour are highly resistant to heat (plasma) but much more permeable to light (lasers) or the damage efffects of lasers - in addition to being sensitive to laser damage once it penetrates the armour. Not so impossible.[[User:Spike|Spike]] 02:54, 12 December 2008 (CST)

:: It seems that if they feared a revolt among the secopods, they should have made their control center a muton brain with brain implants, which means they can be controlled by the leader and commander types in the area. That'd give the secopods a decent psi defense because you have to kick the ethereal leader/commander out of the system.--[[User:(name here)|(name here)]] 09:40, 13 December 2008 (CST)

Best Starting Weapons (EU)

2008-12-07T14:55:39Z

(name here):

Until recently my view was that the AutoCannon was the best standard-issue starting weapon and I gave it to every soldier strong enough to carry one; everyone else got a Rifle. Having run some numbers, I think this is probably wrong. For early-game scenarios involving mainly Floaters and Sectoids (including their associated terror units), I would now say that:

# The Pistol is probably better than the Rifle. It has slightly better firepower, plus the advantage of improved Experience gain, the flexibility with grenades or other items in the second hand, more likely to get off a reaction shot, and of course lower cost to own and operate (a minor consideration). The only real downside is less ammo (more frequent reloads, more Transport space). The only thing in the Rifle's favour is the auto mode, and that only generates greater firepower in close range situations where accuracy can be ignored. For medium range shots, Snap fire from a Pistol (or Rifle) is far more effective than Auto fire from a Rifle.
# The Heavy Cannon is probably better than the Auto Cannon. It has 50% better firepower than the Rifle, Pistol, or AutoCannon. It is cheaper to own and operate than the AutoCannon, and is superior in reaction fire (snap fire) firepower. It has the best first-shot-kill capability. It has much greater terrain-clearing capabilities (both AP and HE). It can even step up to tackling Mutons, with some degree of success. The only advantages the Auto Cannon has over it are ammo capacity, and the rare use of HE in auto mode when accuracy can be ignored. The downside is the 6-rd ammo limitation, and fewer reaction shot opportunities (though those shots have the best effectiveness, on average). But overcoming that downside will build up soldiers' Strength, rapidly!
# In conclusion, I would make the combination of the Pistol and Heavy Cannon the standard starting personal weapons. The Pistol favours Experience and flexibility; the Heavy Cannon favours pure all-round firepower.
# The AutoCannon would not be standard-issue. It would be retained only for 1-2 soldiers as a special weapon (such as for illuminating with IC, or possibly fighting Reapers or Mutons with HE on auto). Similarly you also need Rocket Launchers as special heavy weapons, grenades/explosives, Stun Rods for captures, etc.

''NB'' - I am defining "firepower" as "average armour-adjusted damage delivered on target per unit of time".

[[User:Spike|Spike]] 19:03, 6 December 2008 (CST)

:Don't disagree with much here, but if you use the Incendiary Exploit, the Autocannon can more than hold its own. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 19:58, 6 December 2008 (CST)

The biggest drawback to the heavy weapons is weight which you pointed out, Spike. Just did a breakdown of the HC and 81% of starting rookies can carry it (without encumberance playing a role) with 1 clip, 52% with 2 clips and 24% with 3 clips. (I don't remember if clip weight is ignored if it is loaded into a weapon, so these percentages are based off the worst-case scenario). As for the Auto-Cannon, 81% can carry it with 1 clip, 57% with 2 clips and 33% with 3 clips. Because the AC can be carried by more soldiers due to it's lower overall clip weight, it should get the nod over the HC in that respect. Then again, if a soldier needs multiple clips for any of these weapons and are too weak to carry the excess, I suppose you could have some of those Pistol-toting freaks be pack mules. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 04:35, 7 December 2008 (CST)

Due to a bug, the first clip loaded by the game (usually AP) during the Equip phase does not count for Encumbrance. So this widens the range of rookies who can carry a (minimally) loaded AC or HC. If you unload/reload the weapon, the clip weight is from then on counted against Encumbrance.

I think you are right that ammo and clip carrying capacity the a key issue. Using AC will allow you to carry 2-3 times as many rounds, and also have more diverse ammo types for each soldier. But the extra 50% firepower is hard to argue with it. I'm going to give it a try and see if the firepower boost compensates for the ammo constraints. I tend to use a 14 man squad and I think the weight constraint will be less of a problem than it would be with a 6 man squad for example. But the best thing to do is test it, so I will test it. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 08:03, 7 December 2008 (CST)

Doesn't the rifle do 4 more points of the same type of damage as the pistol?--[[User:(name here)|(name here)]] 08:55, 7 December 2008 (CST)

Talk:Spring Cleaning Tips

2008-12-01T20:40:38Z

(name here):

Spike: Good edit, but I am left wondering under what circumstances you would need to manufacture Heavy Plasma weapons. ;) [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 15:56, 30 November 2008 (CST)
: Thanks AQ. Yeah, I was wondering that too, even as I edited it. :)
: How about - very rapid expansion? You have LOTS of Assault teams, you didn't previously stockpile ANY Heavy Plasmas, you've just researched them, and you want to outfit all your guys with them ASAP? Not a very likely scenario I admit. Really the argument applies more to armour and maybe to weapons for new bases or new assault teams, if you don't have a big surplus of Heavy Plasmas. Maybe not many UFOs are coming, you're short of money, so you've been selling Heavy Plasmas to pay the bills, rather than stockpiling them for the fight. But basically I just couldn't think how to edit my way out of it. :) [[User:Spike|Spike]] 16:37, 30 November 2008 (CST)

: If you don't have many in stock, and get an "Oh god, ethereals, NOOOO BLASTER BOMB GUY" incident, you'd need quite a few in a hurry.--[[User:(name here)|(name here)]] 14:40, 1 December 2008 (CST)

Talk:Tactical Exploits

2008-11-28T23:04:05Z

(name here):

While reading some of the other articles, I was reminded of the 'cloning' bug that can sometimes save a soldier without armour who only has 1 turn left to live by standing in smoke and hoping that they get knocked out and killed in the wrong order.

I can't seem to remember if this counts as an exploit, but thought I'd quickly jam it in here as a reminder before it fades from my mind.

Come to think of it - it's not really cloning. Perhaps corpse substitution would be a better term? Oh well.

- [[User:NKF|NKF]] 21:27, 13 November 2007 (PST)

==Dead Man Switches VS. Zombies==

Actually, it's been noted that on occasion, a Zombie will not drop the items the soldier was carrying. In any case, while the first dropped grenade may well destroy the Zombie(and possibly the spawning Chryssalid), it will ALSO destroy the SECOND grenade. This means that what you've really done is spawned a full power Chryssalid in a place you may not have line of sight to or have any immediate disposal options. This would generally be considered a VERY BAD thing.

On an auxiliary note, since explosives in TFTD cannot be destroyed by other explosives, this tactic would work quite admirably versus Tentaculats. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 10:57, 16 May 2008 (PDT)

:However, grenades are not powerful enough to achieve an automatic kill, so again, this is a dicey tactic.--[[User:Ethereal Cereal|Ethereal Cereal]] 11:51, 1 June 2008 (PDT)

:Rookie agents wearing High Explosives with a dead man switch set can make for highly effective expendable shock troops when it comes to breaching UFO entrances and clearing buildings. Just remember not to allow them anywhere near other team members until they have disposed of the explosives. Smoke grenades could be used as an alternative if you want to avoid wrecking all the expensive alien technology. --[[User:Lobosolitario|Lobosolitario]] 04:33, 11 July 2008 (PDT)

== Elevator Shielding ==

'''NOTE: contrary to the conclusions of this discussion, it would appear that Elevator Shielding is alive and well and is used in such well known wheezes as Alien Base Milking.''' [[User:Spike|Spike]] 14:08, 19 November 2008 (CST)

Hi Tonic, I think this is the first time we've met. Well met.

I've never heard of Elevator Shielding before. I'm not playing XCOM ATM but in my recollection, they readily shoot through elevators. At least, from upper battleship floors to lower ones.

Who else has seen this alien base elevator shield?

Thanks for contributing, tb! - [[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]] 21:29, 21 June 2007 (PDT)

:I've never seen what Tonicboy describes, but I have had troops toasted from one floor of the battleship to another. In fact, any amount of time spent on battleship raids should teach that the aliens are at least programmed to shoot DOWN lifts, because I can't count how many times that precious Commander I was after went into the top floor lift room, tried to fire his Blaster Launcher down the shaft, and turned himself into KFC. Also have lost troops to Heavy Plasma shots. However, the entrance elevator on the alien base is smaller(2x2) than the elevator on an alien battleship(3x3). So I'll present three theories that might explain what Tonicboy is seeing.

:1: Aliens can only shoot down lifts, not up.
:2: Aliens need a specific 'width' of elevator in order to shoot up or down through, and the Alien Base elevator is too narrow.
:3: Aliens can't shoot through a space that has a unit on it, regardless of whether there is the capacity for the shot to connect or not. What's keeping the aliens from firing is not the fact that they can't shoot up or down, it's that every space on the elevator is occupied by a soldier. This means that with 9 troopers, or 5 troops and a tank, you could replicate this situation on an alien Battleship.

:I have no idea which theory is correct, but I just thought I'd offer my insight. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 21:40, 21 June 2007 (PDT)

:: #3 doesn't make sense because they ought to be able to shoot ''at'' a unit.
:: re: #2: I did a little testing on a supply ship, and aliens didn't shoot down a lift at a soldier right below them. I think I saw them take shots when the soldier moved, although that might've been another alien I didn't spot.
::I've definitely seen "lift immunity" in alien bases. Have all your troops retreat to the access rooms, plug up all the upper lift spaces, and watch the aliens swarm underneath without taking any shots. (Edit out Blaster Launchers first.) This is true for CE -- is it different for the DOS version?
::--[[User:Ethereal Cereal|Ethereal Cereal]] 11:45, 22 June 2007 (PDT)

I think that blaster bombs ignore elevator shielding. can't be sure if any other weapons can, but I've seen them shoot down both battleship and alien base command center lifts with blaster bombs, and only blaster bombs.--[[User:(name here)|(name here)]] 19:07, 26 November 2007 (PST)

:Yes, but it does not have to be a Blaster Bomb; any weapon can shoot up or down a lift, unless it is one of those weird situations where the Alien could shoot at you, but it will not. - [[User:NinthRank|NinthRank]] 06:19, 27 November 2007 (PST)
:: elevator shielding is the name for those situations. but it does not seem to apply to aliens with blaster launchers. maybe aliens don't shoot straight up or down a lift?

Only for large 2x2 or 3x3 sized lifts (alien base and command room/battleship respectively). For these, they can fire at an angle with no trouble - and so can you. In the Collectors Edition, 1x1 sized lifts give them trouble on account of the bug that sends the blaster bomb to the south of the map when any attempt to set any waypoints above or below each other occurs. You can fire it up and down a 1x1 lift if fired at just the right angle, but the AI isn't smart enough to do that.

I don't think any shielding really occurs for the lifts, myself. At least, not in UFO. It may differ slightly in TFTD, so some observations would probably be needed to round it all off.

Has anyone tried reversing the positions of the alien and the soldier to see through the POV of the alien? It might just be that the alien has a harder time spotting a unit directly below it. Perhaps some heavy use of mind control, or even simply using XComutil's SWP command might be of some help here. - [[User:NKF|NKF]] 20:41, 27 November 2007 (PST)

==Steam Downloaded Versions==
If you don't know, the Steam Versions of X-COM are all run in DOSBox, so it should be treated as a DOS type game. I found this out the hard way during a base defense where a Blaster Bomb successfully made a vertical move and killed half my team. [[User:Muton commander|Muton commander]] 16:03, 28 November 2008 (CST)

: You have it backwards. The vertical move thing is a CE issue, i think. --[[User:(name here)|(name here)]] 17:04, 28 November 2008 (CST)

Talk:Small Scout

2008-11-27T00:06:37Z

(name here):

== Tactics for Hunting Small Scouts ==

I've seen single stingrays down them. I've never hit one with cannons. They always run away before my interceptors close. You'd probably need an elerium powered ship to catch up with them and use cannons. There always seems to be one looking for you base on the first day so it can be a nice way to get that first plasma weapon for research.

:I agree. These critters are hard to catch. Dual Stingrays have a strong risk of destroying them totally, with Cannons you will almost never get close enough in an Interceptor. Single Stingray, plus Cannon just in case, - i.e. the starting Interceptor loadout - is the best way to crash these early in the game. Even then it's difficult as they often just run for it before you can even fire the first Stingray. I agree it's better just to tail them with a Transport and hope they land, but they don't always land. May be when the Interception Window is up they are less likely to land? Do UFO's "know" when they've been targeted? Early in the game, the $340K of Mind Probe these guys are carrying (total worth $400K+) makes it imperative to try to Recover or Assault them, by hook or by crook. I still have not worked out the best way to do it, let alone a reliable way. Maybe tail them with a transport but keep an Interceptor nearby in the air, with Stingray + Cannon, to take them out if they look like leaving?

It should be noted that a Small Scout assault seems deceptively easy. After all there's 1 of Them and 14 of You. What many people may not realize is that the 1 living alien triggers the "alien clairvoyance" (2 or less aliens alive on the map, or more than 20 turns elapsed, and the AI gets to know where all the X-COM troops are.) Some Small Scout aliens have put up impressive fights. And just to clarify, the Cannon is the only reliable method of downing a Small Scout. A lone Stingray works sometimes, as can a Laser Cannon. However, since you get 100 points for destroying the small scout, and only 50 for shooting it down, the former is often a better choice unless you're hurting for cash, since the recovery value of the UFO isn't 50, even on a perfect mission. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 13:14, 24 November 2008 (CST)

:Excellent points there. 14 to 1 is hardly sporting, but as you say the wily scout has an equaliser - good. But are you sure about the reliability of Cannon? On paper, yes, but in practice (I've done a lot of repeat trials), it takes many missed engagements before you even get an Interception Window against a Small Scout, and in most of those cases the Small Scout "goes to warp speed" once its damage level approaches 50%. The problem with the Cannon is that it's damage level is ''too'' fine-grained, unlike the Stingray which can pitch the target over the 50% damage threshold before it has time to react and disengage. So yes the Cannon is reliable in the sense that it will almost never destroy the Small Scout. Only on very rare occasions is the Scout in an aggressive enough mood to close with (rather than flee from) a Cannon-armed craft. But the Cannon's rate of ''downing'' Small Scouts is much lower than the single Stingray, per engagement. So I would definitely maintain the Stingray primary plus Cannon secondary is the best mix for Small Scout hunting. 90%+ of the time, a single Stingray would do as well as the combo. (The S+C combo is also much more practical than either a single Cannon or dual Cannon, when it comes to shooting down any evasive targets other than a Small Scout. The Dual Cannon mix does excel with a non-evading target such as a Battleship of course.) But maybe we should have a contest, a shoot-off?

:Whether <= 50 extra points of Score is worth $400K of cash, a little experience and perhaps some new Research topics, is debatable. My view would be that in the first month of two of the game, the cash (etc) is definitely more useful than the score. Small Scouts largely disappear after that. When they reappear a couple of months later, it's probably not worth the hassle - splash 'em!. I picture a Small Scout running from a Fusion Ball... :) [[User:Spike|Spike]] 17:15, 24 November 2008 (CST)

::I'm still a skeptic of the 'alien clairvoyance' claim. There used to be a related claim regarding turn 20, which I can't remember exactly but it had to do with alien behaviour as well that I never bought it. So what's the proof of the 'clairvoyance'? Simple observation? Specific code in the engine? How did you test it? What results can be expected after turn 20? Just some questions :) [[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 12:02, 26 November 2008 (CST)
:::"Proof" of clairvoyance is in the code: after turn 10, if 1 or 2 aliens only are still alive, all enemy units are made visible to them. Same thing after turn 20. [[User:Seb76|Seb76]] 16:04, 26 November 2008 (CST)

::: Turn 20 is when the aliens get automatic line-of-sight to all your units, leading to their troops rushing out of the ships and a massive storm of psionics. I'm not quite sure where that came from, so i'll look around. --[[User:(name here)|(name here)]] 13:38, 26 November 2008 (CST)

:::: It seems turn 20 is when they decide to exit their ship, and the psionic spam is actually 10-x, where x depends on the psionic defense of the unit on your side with the lowest psionic defense, as tested by zombie --[[User:(name here)|(name here)]] 14:02, 26 November 2008 (CST)

::: Seb, are you sure about that? Behavior would seem to indicate that the turn 20 effect happens even with 4 aliens left alive.--[[User:(name here)|(name here)]] 18:06, 26 November 2008 (CST)

The problem with the Small Scouts is that not only do they have a higher top speed than an Interceptor, but they also have the highest acceleration in the game. The Small Scout doesn't have a weapon either, so if it encounters resistance, it will try to outrun the threat almost all the time. A Stinger+Cannon combo is probably a preferable loadout on the Interceptor as it may allow you to down the craft while still being useful for other engagements.

In my experience, Small Scouts rarely land so trailing them with a Skyranger is hopeless. And you don't know when the UFO is going to leave so it's better to just engage them straight off when the "scouting" mode begins.

If you do manage to crash the Small Scout in the beginning of the game, it's a great thing. (Not so much for score, but then again the difference is 50 points which is a drop in the bucket for most months). The guaranteed Mind Probe is a good artifact to recover as it provides an influx of cash which could really help out the struggling forces. The mission isn't going to be easy as we recently found out, but it's not hard to kill a single Sectoid, Floater or Snakeman early on either.

All of this hints at just engaging the Small Scouts and crashing them if possible early on. Later, when you have faster craft capable of matching the speed of the Small Scout, you can load a Lightning or a Firestorm with the Cannon(s) and go after the SS to get those Mind Probes easily on a ground mission. However, most people don't even consider equipping a craft with normal Cannons a viable strategy since the intercepting craft is capable of only one function. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 17:50, 24 November 2008 (CST)

---

By the way I'm tempted to remove the obsolete discussion below as it its conclusions are neatly summarised on the main article - any objections? [[User:Spike|Spike]] 13:23, 23 November 2008 (CST)

:The archivist in me disagrees, but I'm not the only one here. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 13:14, 24 November 2008 (CST)

:: Heck, the archivist in me agrees with the archivist in you. :) [[User:Spike|Spike]] 17:15, 24 November 2008 (CST)

:The article page mentions that the Small Scout will not be placed on the map by XComUtil. Isn't the confusion solved then? Unless there is something else which needs to be worked into the text, the discussion should be removed.--[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 17:50, 24 November 2008 (CST)

== XComUtil Ate My UFO (Old Discussion) ==

Brunpal: In the interception window, if a UFO takes 50% or more of its total hull points in damage, it is shot down, leaving a UFO Crash Site which X-COM can raid for goodies. X-COM gets "UFO Grounded" points for such. UFO crash sites tend to contain damaged UFOs. But since there's really no way to damage the Small Scout, the vessel doesn't spawn on the map. If a UFO takes 100% or more of its HP in damage in an interception, you will get the message "UFO Destroyed!" No crash site is spawned, and X-COM gets double the points it would've gotten for simply crash-landing the vessel. The part at the top refers to this discrepancy between crash landing and destruction. Craft Armaments randomly do between 50% and 100% of their damage to a UFO on a successful hit; the Small Scout has 50 HP. So even on a minimum damage(50), an Avalanche missile will blow a Small Scout into shrapnel. Whereas a Stingray, Cannon, or Laser Cannon can possibly crash the Small Scout, but damages it so badly in the process that there's nothing left for X-COM to salvage; just a lone alien to hunt. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 15:45, 17 September 2008 (PDT)

:Yes I understood all that previously. (Been playing for years.) It was better explained at the top of the page so the note at the bottom was superfluous as it was written. Plus technically it wasn't correct as is:
:*''"If the Small Scout was shot down by an Interceptor, there will be no UFO spawned; the craft is destroyed in the crash landing."''
:1. Reference to Interceptor: Doesn't matter what kind of X-Com craft shoots it down. As written it implies it does matter what craft.
:2. Does matter what kind of weapon (vs craft) is used to shoot it down. Which isn't explained in the note, but is explained on the page.
:3. "Shot down" is a inaccurate term. It implies a crash, vs "destroyed" which doesn't imply a crash.
:4. As written it implied destruction was the only possible result. Highly likely, yes. I was surprised the first time I had one crash on me since I must have blown up dozens upon dozens by that time across many different games and had never had it happen.
:5. While I understood what it was trying to say, the entire small note ended up contradicting the body of the page.
:As my edit summary explained: "the note was better explained at the top of the page" but I still thought it wise to allay a player's concern that they had never been attacked by that kind of UFO. (A thought that crossed my mind the first time I saw it in game.) --[[User:Brunpal|Brunpal]] 10:53, 18 September 2008 (PDT)

::I think I'm unsure what the debate here is now. What I am trying to explain is that if the UFO is shot down by anything("Interceptor" is used across the wiki as a generic term for any X-COM craft that can mount a weapon, though it does correctly refer to the fighter jet) and is NOT destroyed during the interception, the crash site of the UFO will spawn a single alien and no UFO. Is this what you understand me to be saying? [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 21:28, 24 September 2008 (PDT)

:::The only way that I know of to produce a "small scout" map with no actual small scout on it is to use XComUtil (which stops it appearing for who knows what reason). If you shoot one down but fail to destroy it (dual cannons are a good way to do this), you can send in your ground team and collect the craft. It'll be perfectly intact (because it has no power supply to go boom).

:::Yes, I tested it just this minute with CE. ;) If you have different results, check that your game isn't modded then report back on your version. - [[User:Bomb Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] 03:07, 25 September 2008 (PDT)

::I do indeed use XComUtil, with it, the game runs more stably(fewer crashes) and does not completely disrupt my screen resolution if and when it does crash and burn. So that'd be my error; apologies. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 06:50, 25 September 2008 (PDT)

:To answer your question AQ, I did '''not''' understand that you were saying the ''crash site of the UFO will spawn a single alien and no UFO.'' I don't use XComUtil (yet- will after my upgrade) but if a ground mission without a UFO is common behavior in XComUtil, then it's worth mentioning.
:I have never seen a mission where there was an alien but no UFO, though I thought I had at the time. There was no UFO a couple of times on a fully explored map, but after reloading the UFO was just hiding behind a building or something each time I thought it didn't exist. I could only see it by using the top down perspective and setting the view to display exteriors of structures only. This UFO is tiny and easy to miss even when you are looking for it. When it's been shot down, it's even smaller. One time the landing gear was the only thing left. That may have happened to you, maybe not, but something to keep in mind.--[[User:Brunpal|Brunpal]] 08:38, 25 September 2008 (PDT)

Talk:Small Scout

2008-11-26T20:02:37Z

(name here):

== Tactics for Hunting Small Scouts ==

I've seen single stingrays down them. I've never hit one with cannons. They always run away before my interceptors close. You'd probably need an elerium powered ship to catch up with them and use cannons. There always seems to be one looking for you base on the first day so it can be a nice way to get that first plasma weapon for research.

:I agree. These critters are hard to catch. Dual Stingrays have a strong risk of destroying them totally, with Cannons you will almost never get close enough in an Interceptor. Single Stingray, plus Cannon just in case, - i.e. the starting Interceptor loadout - is the best way to crash these early in the game. Even then it's difficult as they often just run for it before you can even fire the first Stingray. I agree it's better just to tail them with a Transport and hope they land, but they don't always land. May be when the Interception Window is up they are less likely to land? Do UFO's "know" when they've been targeted? Early in the game, the $340K of Mind Probe these guys are carrying (total worth $400K+) makes it imperative to try to Recover or Assault them, by hook or by crook. I still have not worked out the best way to do it, let alone a reliable way. Maybe tail them with a transport but keep an Interceptor nearby in the air, with Stingray + Cannon, to take them out if they look like leaving?

It should be noted that a Small Scout assault seems deceptively easy. After all there's 1 of Them and 14 of You. What many people may not realize is that the 1 living alien triggers the "alien clairvoyance" (2 or less aliens alive on the map, or more than 20 turns elapsed, and the AI gets to know where all the X-COM troops are.) Some Small Scout aliens have put up impressive fights. And just to clarify, the Cannon is the only reliable method of downing a Small Scout. A lone Stingray works sometimes, as can a Laser Cannon. However, since you get 100 points for destroying the small scout, and only 50 for shooting it down, the former is often a better choice unless you're hurting for cash, since the recovery value of the UFO isn't 50, even on a perfect mission. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 13:14, 24 November 2008 (CST)

:Excellent points there. 14 to 1 is hardly sporting, but as you say the wily scout has an equaliser - good. But are you sure about the reliability of Cannon? On paper, yes, but in practice (I've done a lot of repeat trials), it takes many missed engagements before you even get an Interception Window against a Small Scout, and in most of those cases the Small Scout "goes to warp speed" once its damage level approaches 50%. The problem with the Cannon is that it's damage level is ''too'' fine-grained, unlike the Stingray which can pitch the target over the 50% damage threshold before it has time to react and disengage. So yes the Cannon is reliable in the sense that it will almost never destroy the Small Scout. Only on very rare occasions is the Scout in an aggressive enough mood to close with (rather than flee from) a Cannon-armed craft. But the Cannon's rate of ''downing'' Small Scouts is much lower than the single Stingray, per engagement. So I would definitely maintain the Stingray primary plus Cannon secondary is the best mix for Small Scout hunting. 90%+ of the time, a single Stingray would do as well as the combo. (The S+C combo is also much more practical than either a single Cannon or dual Cannon, when it comes to shooting down any evasive targets other than a Small Scout. The Dual Cannon mix does excel with a non-evading target such as a Battleship of course.) But maybe we should have a contest, a shoot-off?

:Whether <= 50 extra points of Score is worth $400K of cash, a little experience and perhaps some new Research topics, is debatable. My view would be that in the first month of two of the game, the cash (etc) is definitely more useful than the score. Small Scouts largely disappear after that. When they reappear a couple of months later, it's probably not worth the hassle - splash 'em!. I picture a Small Scout running from a Fusion Ball... :) [[User:Spike|Spike]] 17:15, 24 November 2008 (CST)

::I'm still a skeptic of the 'alien clairvoyance' claim. There used to be a related claim regarding turn 20, which I can't remember exactly but it had to do with alien behaviour as well that I never bought it. So what's the proof of the 'clairvoyance'? Simple observation? Specific code in the engine? How did you test it? What results can be expected after turn 20? Just some questions :) [[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 12:02, 26 November 2008 (CST)

::: Turn 20 is when the aliens get automatic line-of-sight to all your units, leading to their troops rushing out of the ships and a massive storm of psionics. I'm not quite sure where that came from, so i'll look around. --[[User:(name here)|(name here)]] 13:38, 26 November 2008 (CST)

:::: It seems turn 20 is when they decide to exit their ship, and the psionic spam is actually 10-x, where x depends on the psionic defense of the unit on your side with the lowest psionic defense, as tested by zombie --[[User:(name here)|(name here)]] 14:02, 26 November 2008 (CST)

The problem with the Small Scouts is that not only do they have a higher top speed than an Interceptor, but they also have the highest acceleration in the game. The Small Scout doesn't have a weapon either, so if it encounters resistance, it will try to outrun the threat almost all the time. A Stinger+Cannon combo is probably a preferable loadout on the Interceptor as it may allow you to down the craft while still being useful for other engagements.

In my experience, Small Scouts rarely land so trailing them with a Skyranger is hopeless. And you don't know when the UFO is going to leave so it's better to just engage them straight off when the "scouting" mode begins.

If you do manage to crash the Small Scout in the beginning of the game, it's a great thing. (Not so much for score, but then again the difference is 50 points which is a drop in the bucket for most months). The guaranteed Mind Probe is a good artifact to recover as it provides an influx of cash which could really help out the struggling forces. The mission isn't going to be easy as we recently found out, but it's not hard to kill a single Sectoid, Floater or Snakeman early on either.

All of this hints at just engaging the Small Scouts and crashing them if possible early on. Later, when you have faster craft capable of matching the speed of the Small Scout, you can load a Lightning or a Firestorm with the Cannon(s) and go after the SS to get those Mind Probes easily on a ground mission. However, most people don't even consider equipping a craft with normal Cannons a viable strategy since the intercepting craft is capable of only one function. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 17:50, 24 November 2008 (CST)

---

By the way I'm tempted to remove the obsolete discussion below as it its conclusions are neatly summarised on the main article - any objections? [[User:Spike|Spike]] 13:23, 23 November 2008 (CST)

:The archivist in me disagrees, but I'm not the only one here. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 13:14, 24 November 2008 (CST)

:: Heck, the archivist in me agrees with the archivist in you. :) [[User:Spike|Spike]] 17:15, 24 November 2008 (CST)

:The article page mentions that the Small Scout will not be placed on the map by XComUtil. Isn't the confusion solved then? Unless there is something else which needs to be worked into the text, the discussion should be removed.--[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 17:50, 24 November 2008 (CST)

== XComUtil Ate My UFO (Old Discussion) ==

Brunpal: In the interception window, if a UFO takes 50% or more of its total hull points in damage, it is shot down, leaving a UFO Crash Site which X-COM can raid for goodies. X-COM gets "UFO Grounded" points for such. UFO crash sites tend to contain damaged UFOs. But since there's really no way to damage the Small Scout, the vessel doesn't spawn on the map. If a UFO takes 100% or more of its HP in damage in an interception, you will get the message "UFO Destroyed!" No crash site is spawned, and X-COM gets double the points it would've gotten for simply crash-landing the vessel. The part at the top refers to this discrepancy between crash landing and destruction. Craft Armaments randomly do between 50% and 100% of their damage to a UFO on a successful hit; the Small Scout has 50 HP. So even on a minimum damage(50), an Avalanche missile will blow a Small Scout into shrapnel. Whereas a Stingray, Cannon, or Laser Cannon can possibly crash the Small Scout, but damages it so badly in the process that there's nothing left for X-COM to salvage; just a lone alien to hunt. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 15:45, 17 September 2008 (PDT)

:Yes I understood all that previously. (Been playing for years.) It was better explained at the top of the page so the note at the bottom was superfluous as it was written. Plus technically it wasn't correct as is:
:*''"If the Small Scout was shot down by an Interceptor, there will be no UFO spawned; the craft is destroyed in the crash landing."''
:1. Reference to Interceptor: Doesn't matter what kind of X-Com craft shoots it down. As written it implies it does matter what craft.
:2. Does matter what kind of weapon (vs craft) is used to shoot it down. Which isn't explained in the note, but is explained on the page.
:3. "Shot down" is a inaccurate term. It implies a crash, vs "destroyed" which doesn't imply a crash.
:4. As written it implied destruction was the only possible result. Highly likely, yes. I was surprised the first time I had one crash on me since I must have blown up dozens upon dozens by that time across many different games and had never had it happen.
:5. While I understood what it was trying to say, the entire small note ended up contradicting the body of the page.
:As my edit summary explained: "the note was better explained at the top of the page" but I still thought it wise to allay a player's concern that they had never been attacked by that kind of UFO. (A thought that crossed my mind the first time I saw it in game.) --[[User:Brunpal|Brunpal]] 10:53, 18 September 2008 (PDT)

::I think I'm unsure what the debate here is now. What I am trying to explain is that if the UFO is shot down by anything("Interceptor" is used across the wiki as a generic term for any X-COM craft that can mount a weapon, though it does correctly refer to the fighter jet) and is NOT destroyed during the interception, the crash site of the UFO will spawn a single alien and no UFO. Is this what you understand me to be saying? [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 21:28, 24 September 2008 (PDT)

:::The only way that I know of to produce a "small scout" map with no actual small scout on it is to use XComUtil (which stops it appearing for who knows what reason). If you shoot one down but fail to destroy it (dual cannons are a good way to do this), you can send in your ground team and collect the craft. It'll be perfectly intact (because it has no power supply to go boom).

:::Yes, I tested it just this minute with CE. ;) If you have different results, check that your game isn't modded then report back on your version. - [[User:Bomb Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] 03:07, 25 September 2008 (PDT)

::I do indeed use XComUtil, with it, the game runs more stably(fewer crashes) and does not completely disrupt my screen resolution if and when it does crash and burn. So that'd be my error; apologies. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 06:50, 25 September 2008 (PDT)

:To answer your question AQ, I did '''not''' understand that you were saying the ''crash site of the UFO will spawn a single alien and no UFO.'' I don't use XComUtil (yet- will after my upgrade) but if a ground mission without a UFO is common behavior in XComUtil, then it's worth mentioning.
:I have never seen a mission where there was an alien but no UFO, though I thought I had at the time. There was no UFO a couple of times on a fully explored map, but after reloading the UFO was just hiding behind a building or something each time I thought it didn't exist. I could only see it by using the top down perspective and setting the view to display exteriors of structures only. This UFO is tiny and easy to miss even when you are looking for it. When it's been shot down, it's even smaller. One time the landing gear was the only thing left. That may have happened to you, maybe not, but something to keep in mind.--[[User:Brunpal|Brunpal]] 08:38, 25 September 2008 (PDT)

Talk:Small Scout

2008-11-26T19:38:55Z

(name here):

== Tactics for Hunting Small Scouts ==

I've seen single stingrays down them. I've never hit one with cannons. They always run away before my interceptors close. You'd probably need an elerium powered ship to catch up with them and use cannons. There always seems to be one looking for you base on the first day so it can be a nice way to get that first plasma weapon for research.

:I agree. These critters are hard to catch. Dual Stingrays have a strong risk of destroying them totally, with Cannons you will almost never get close enough in an Interceptor. Single Stingray, plus Cannon just in case, - i.e. the starting Interceptor loadout - is the best way to crash these early in the game. Even then it's difficult as they often just run for it before you can even fire the first Stingray. I agree it's better just to tail them with a Transport and hope they land, but they don't always land. May be when the Interception Window is up they are less likely to land? Do UFO's "know" when they've been targeted? Early in the game, the $340K of Mind Probe these guys are carrying (total worth $400K+) makes it imperative to try to Recover or Assault them, by hook or by crook. I still have not worked out the best way to do it, let alone a reliable way. Maybe tail them with a transport but keep an Interceptor nearby in the air, with Stingray + Cannon, to take them out if they look like leaving?

It should be noted that a Small Scout assault seems deceptively easy. After all there's 1 of Them and 14 of You. What many people may not realize is that the 1 living alien triggers the "alien clairvoyance" (2 or less aliens alive on the map, or more than 20 turns elapsed, and the AI gets to know where all the X-COM troops are.) Some Small Scout aliens have put up impressive fights. And just to clarify, the Cannon is the only reliable method of downing a Small Scout. A lone Stingray works sometimes, as can a Laser Cannon. However, since you get 100 points for destroying the small scout, and only 50 for shooting it down, the former is often a better choice unless you're hurting for cash, since the recovery value of the UFO isn't 50, even on a perfect mission. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 13:14, 24 November 2008 (CST)

:Excellent points there. 14 to 1 is hardly sporting, but as you say the wily scout has an equaliser - good. But are you sure about the reliability of Cannon? On paper, yes, but in practice (I've done a lot of repeat trials), it takes many missed engagements before you even get an Interception Window against a Small Scout, and in most of those cases the Small Scout "goes to warp speed" once its damage level approaches 50%. The problem with the Cannon is that it's damage level is ''too'' fine-grained, unlike the Stingray which can pitch the target over the 50% damage threshold before it has time to react and disengage. So yes the Cannon is reliable in the sense that it will almost never destroy the Small Scout. Only on very rare occasions is the Scout in an aggressive enough mood to close with (rather than flee from) a Cannon-armed craft. But the Cannon's rate of ''downing'' Small Scouts is much lower than the single Stingray, per engagement. So I would definitely maintain the Stingray primary plus Cannon secondary is the best mix for Small Scout hunting. 90%+ of the time, a single Stingray would do as well as the combo. (The S+C combo is also much more practical than either a single Cannon or dual Cannon, when it comes to shooting down any evasive targets other than a Small Scout. The Dual Cannon mix does excel with a non-evading target such as a Battleship of course.) But maybe we should have a contest, a shoot-off?

:Whether <= 50 extra points of Score is worth $400K of cash, a little experience and perhaps some new Research topics, is debatable. My view would be that in the first month of two of the game, the cash (etc) is definitely more useful than the score. Small Scouts largely disappear after that. When they reappear a couple of months later, it's probably not worth the hassle - splash 'em!. I picture a Small Scout running from a Fusion Ball... :) [[User:Spike|Spike]] 17:15, 24 November 2008 (CST)

::I'm still a skeptic of the 'alien clairvoyance' claim. There used to be a related claim regarding turn 20, which I can't remember exactly but it had to do with alien behaviour as well that I never bought it. So what's the proof of the 'clairvoyance'? Simple observation? Specific code in the engine? How did you test it? What results can be expected after turn 20? Just some questions :) [[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 12:02, 26 November 2008 (CST)

::: Turn 20 is when the aliens get automatic line-of-sight to all your units, leading to their troops rushing out of the ships and a massive storm of psionics. I'm not quite sure where that came from, so i'll look around. --[[User:(name here)|(name here)]] 13:38, 26 November 2008 (CST)

The problem with the Small Scouts is that not only do they have a higher top speed than an Interceptor, but they also have the highest acceleration in the game. The Small Scout doesn't have a weapon either, so if it encounters resistance, it will try to outrun the threat almost all the time. A Stinger+Cannon combo is probably a preferable loadout on the Interceptor as it may allow you to down the craft while still being useful for other engagements.

In my experience, Small Scouts rarely land so trailing them with a Skyranger is hopeless. And you don't know when the UFO is going to leave so it's better to just engage them straight off when the "scouting" mode begins.

If you do manage to crash the Small Scout in the beginning of the game, it's a great thing. (Not so much for score, but then again the difference is 50 points which is a drop in the bucket for most months). The guaranteed Mind Probe is a good artifact to recover as it provides an influx of cash which could really help out the struggling forces. The mission isn't going to be easy as we recently found out, but it's not hard to kill a single Sectoid, Floater or Snakeman early on either.

All of this hints at just engaging the Small Scouts and crashing them if possible early on. Later, when you have faster craft capable of matching the speed of the Small Scout, you can load a Lightning or a Firestorm with the Cannon(s) and go after the SS to get those Mind Probes easily on a ground mission. However, most people don't even consider equipping a craft with normal Cannons a viable strategy since the intercepting craft is capable of only one function. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 17:50, 24 November 2008 (CST)

---

By the way I'm tempted to remove the obsolete discussion below as it its conclusions are neatly summarised on the main article - any objections? [[User:Spike|Spike]] 13:23, 23 November 2008 (CST)

:The archivist in me disagrees, but I'm not the only one here. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 13:14, 24 November 2008 (CST)

:: Heck, the archivist in me agrees with the archivist in you. :) [[User:Spike|Spike]] 17:15, 24 November 2008 (CST)

:The article page mentions that the Small Scout will not be placed on the map by XComUtil. Isn't the confusion solved then? Unless there is something else which needs to be worked into the text, the discussion should be removed.--[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 17:50, 24 November 2008 (CST)

== XComUtil Ate My UFO (Old Discussion) ==

Brunpal: In the interception window, if a UFO takes 50% or more of its total hull points in damage, it is shot down, leaving a UFO Crash Site which X-COM can raid for goodies. X-COM gets "UFO Grounded" points for such. UFO crash sites tend to contain damaged UFOs. But since there's really no way to damage the Small Scout, the vessel doesn't spawn on the map. If a UFO takes 100% or more of its HP in damage in an interception, you will get the message "UFO Destroyed!" No crash site is spawned, and X-COM gets double the points it would've gotten for simply crash-landing the vessel. The part at the top refers to this discrepancy between crash landing and destruction. Craft Armaments randomly do between 50% and 100% of their damage to a UFO on a successful hit; the Small Scout has 50 HP. So even on a minimum damage(50), an Avalanche missile will blow a Small Scout into shrapnel. Whereas a Stingray, Cannon, or Laser Cannon can possibly crash the Small Scout, but damages it so badly in the process that there's nothing left for X-COM to salvage; just a lone alien to hunt. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 15:45, 17 September 2008 (PDT)

:Yes I understood all that previously. (Been playing for years.) It was better explained at the top of the page so the note at the bottom was superfluous as it was written. Plus technically it wasn't correct as is:
:*''"If the Small Scout was shot down by an Interceptor, there will be no UFO spawned; the craft is destroyed in the crash landing."''
:1. Reference to Interceptor: Doesn't matter what kind of X-Com craft shoots it down. As written it implies it does matter what craft.
:2. Does matter what kind of weapon (vs craft) is used to shoot it down. Which isn't explained in the note, but is explained on the page.
:3. "Shot down" is a inaccurate term. It implies a crash, vs "destroyed" which doesn't imply a crash.
:4. As written it implied destruction was the only possible result. Highly likely, yes. I was surprised the first time I had one crash on me since I must have blown up dozens upon dozens by that time across many different games and had never had it happen.
:5. While I understood what it was trying to say, the entire small note ended up contradicting the body of the page.
:As my edit summary explained: "the note was better explained at the top of the page" but I still thought it wise to allay a player's concern that they had never been attacked by that kind of UFO. (A thought that crossed my mind the first time I saw it in game.) --[[User:Brunpal|Brunpal]] 10:53, 18 September 2008 (PDT)

::I think I'm unsure what the debate here is now. What I am trying to explain is that if the UFO is shot down by anything("Interceptor" is used across the wiki as a generic term for any X-COM craft that can mount a weapon, though it does correctly refer to the fighter jet) and is NOT destroyed during the interception, the crash site of the UFO will spawn a single alien and no UFO. Is this what you understand me to be saying? [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 21:28, 24 September 2008 (PDT)

:::The only way that I know of to produce a "small scout" map with no actual small scout on it is to use XComUtil (which stops it appearing for who knows what reason). If you shoot one down but fail to destroy it (dual cannons are a good way to do this), you can send in your ground team and collect the craft. It'll be perfectly intact (because it has no power supply to go boom).

:::Yes, I tested it just this minute with CE. ;) If you have different results, check that your game isn't modded then report back on your version. - [[User:Bomb Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] 03:07, 25 September 2008 (PDT)

::I do indeed use XComUtil, with it, the game runs more stably(fewer crashes) and does not completely disrupt my screen resolution if and when it does crash and burn. So that'd be my error; apologies. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 06:50, 25 September 2008 (PDT)

:To answer your question AQ, I did '''not''' understand that you were saying the ''crash site of the UFO will spawn a single alien and no UFO.'' I don't use XComUtil (yet- will after my upgrade) but if a ground mission without a UFO is common behavior in XComUtil, then it's worth mentioning.
:I have never seen a mission where there was an alien but no UFO, though I thought I had at the time. There was no UFO a couple of times on a fully explored map, but after reloading the UFO was just hiding behind a building or something each time I thought it didn't exist. I could only see it by using the top down perspective and setting the view to display exteriors of structures only. This UFO is tiny and easy to miss even when you are looking for it. When it's been shot down, it's even smaller. One time the landing gear was the only thing left. That may have happened to you, maybe not, but something to keep in mind.--[[User:Brunpal|Brunpal]] 08:38, 25 September 2008 (PDT)

Talk:Alien Base

2008-11-26T18:22:53Z

(name here):

== Base Camp(er) ==
----

After getting my ass handed to me a few times by a blaster bomb during alien base assaults, I decided to experiment with new tactics. I tried having everyone stay in the "green rooms", and sent a scout down every turn who spun around and came back up if he didn't see anything. I also dumped a smoke grenade below for a little extra cover.

If the scout saw any alien, I had everyone go down the lift to take a single autoshot each until the alien(s) were dead. I used a Mind Probe to figure out if the aliens had TUs left, and to use stun ammo if I spotted a Commander.

It worked really well. Those lifts are a regular duck blind. Twice they sent a blaster bomb my way; one circled around in the room below me before exploding, the other blew up in adjacent room. The first one might have missed due to the vertical-movement waypoint bug, although if that was the case, I think it would have just blown up, not gone through several waypoints like that. It may simply be that they were aiming for where they had seen my troops on the lower level, having never spotted the team on the upper level.

Right towards the end the Commander finally came at me. He had panicked so he wasn't carrying his weapon, but I wanted to capture him and none of the soldiers near him had stun weapons. I had my troops turn their back to him so they wouldn't kill him with reaction fire and had the other team make their way across the map. However, it turns out the Commander still had an alien grenade. He came up the lift, tossed it, and killed two of my soldiers as well as himself. Heh.--[[User:Ethereal Cereal|Ethereal Cereal]] 01:20, 9 March 2007 (PST)

I tried it a second time, it continued to work well. I should note that it was a Snakeman base on Superhuman. With other races, and maybe other difficulty settings, this technique might not work too well.--[[User:Ethereal Cereal|Ethereal Cereal]] 04:07, 9 March 2007 (PST)

: I actually do this all the time. I wait at the entrance, plugging the upper landings with soldiers or a tank to prevent sneak attacks and let the aliens approach the lifts. Ever turn I lower a scout down, look around and when anyone's spotted, I have other soldiers drop down, open fire or perhaps drop or throw a grenade and then flee back upstairs. If I'm daring enough, I attempt an angled blaster bomb attack (with everyone fleeing to the far end of the room - even this doesn't protect them 100% of the time). I keep this up for a while until I feel it's safe to venture out. The CE vertical blaster bomb bug also helps heaps with mass self-inflicted kills. I wouldn't count on it for the dos version.

:However, it's not a foolproof strategy and a spanner can easily be thrown into the works if the aliens get just one lucky break.

:A mini-camper strategy involves having soldiers hide up those small lifts that lead to small isolated areas. In the CE version of the game, this ensures that you're 100% blaster-bomb and chryssalid/reaper proof. Of course, you'll need a grenade or some other explosive to clear the landing if the aliens get smart(or dumb-depending on your viewpoint) and plug the lift so that you cannot descend. - [[User:NKF|NKF]]

----
And it works for all types of lifts. From 1x1 to 3x3, as long as you plug it the aliens can't send a Blaster Bomb up there. Only true for the CE version though. The Playstation version doesn't have BB waypoint problems and thus it forces you to play without exploiting a bug.--[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 08:53, 9 March 2007 (PST)

:If you stay out of sight though (using smoke and avoiding "visible" edges of the lift), can they see you up there? Will they attempt to send a bomb up if they've only seen troops on the lower level? (If not, then this is potentially an AI exploit, which is more legit than a bug exploit.)

:Incidentally, do you really want to "plug" the lifts (I assume by putting a soldier/tank on every upper lift square)? I tried it where everyone was adjacent to the lift, staying away from positions that might be visible from lower-level corridors. If any alien made a mad dash for the lift, they'd be so out of TUs that reaction fire would take care of them. But again, so far I've only tried it with snakes/chryssalids, and only on CE.--[[User:Ethereal Cereal|Ethereal Cereal]] 15:50, 9 March 2007 (PST)

:Okay, I tested it on a Muton base this time. It works (occasionally you'll get shot at while coming down the lift), but I saw several blaster bombs lobbed at me and they all made a beeline for the lift, then went straight south. So that's the CE vertical movement bug all right. It doesn't look like you need to "plug" the lifts, though.--[[User:Ethereal Cereal|Ethereal Cereal]] 17:25, 10 March 2007 (PST)

== Base lighting? ==

The article states "Alien bases start dim and remain dim, so bring electroflares." They certainly ''appear'' dark in certain parts, but it seems to me I routinely see aliens more distant than 9 squares away, even when they're not near a source of illumination and appear quite dark. This ought to be tested. Even if it is true, the short corridors and multiple sources of illumination make bad lighting a fairly limited hazard in alien bases.--[[User:Ethereal Cereal|Ethereal Cereal]] 00:46, 14 March 2007 (PDT)
----
These are the items which produce light in an alien base:
[[Image:Container1.png]][[Image:Container2.png]][[Image:Container3.png]][[Image:Container4.png]][[Image:Eye.png]][[Image:Plasma_Conduit1.png]][[Image:Plasma_Conduit2.png]]
All of these items produce 10 for light except for the "bloodshot eyeball on a stem" which pumps out 12. BTW, the 4th container isn't used in the game. And with the containers, only the SE corner pumps out light - the other quarters are unlit.

Basically, the modules which have light are UBASE_00 (command center), UBASE_02 (storage room with tower) and UBASE_03 (maintenance/storage facility). The other modules do not have a light source. In the alien base on Cydonia, the modules which have light are UBASE_12 (power source with 4 plasma conduits along the outside), UBASE_13 (4 plasma conduits in the middle with 4 small storage containers on the outside) and UBASE_15 (the brain room). --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 09:48, 14 March 2007 (PDT)
----
Just for completeness' sake, you left out UBASE_10 and UBASE_11 (plasma conduits & alien entertainment rooms). It took a fair amount of testing until I was able to find a situation where I knew where an alien was but couldn't see it due to darkness. (Would've been easier if I had just used MC.) "Personal" lighting produced a few false results. But I was finally able to confirm alien bases are "dark" maps, lighting sources not withstanding.

However, these tests just confirmed to me that it's pretty rare that an alien goes unspotted due to darkness. There's too much cover for long-distance sighting to be common, lighting or no. Electroflares aren't great for bases either, since you're limited to about 12 squares throwing distance with the low ceiling overhead. AC-IN works okay but at that point I'd rather "illuminate" a room with a rocket or Blaster Bomb.--[[User:Ethereal Cereal|Ethereal Cereal]] 20:22, 14 March 2007 (PDT)
----
Right, forgot about UBASE_10. But the UBASE_11 alien entertainment module is not illuminated. The walls tiles certainly aren't lit and neither are the floor tiles.

I have a suspicion that if I edit all the modules in an alien base not to throw out light that the base would be as dark as a night time mission. In this case, Electroflares would be somewhat helpful if you could throw them far enough. A problem with incendiary is that the fire will only stick around for 3 turns max in an alien base for most items. The vats mostly remain lit longer than this (4-7 turns depending on type) but those locations do not need any extra lighting since the items around them throw off so much light. I guess incendiary is helpful in those garden areas as anything which isn't green stays lit by fire for quite a while. But a Blaster can fix any type of illumination problem you may be having in an alien base. Carpet bomb the garden area to flush the aliens out and use saturation bombing on the command center to make sure nothing is moving and the command tables are destroyed in case you need to dust off in a hurry. ;)--[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 21:15, 14 March 2007 (PDT)

== Base Camper ==

One of the reasons I love this game after playing it for ten years is that it still can surprise me.

I tried out the Base Camper tactic last night on a Snakeman base. It work great on the first base in Siberia so I thought I'd take a bunch of rookies for some training on another Snakeman base in the artic. After killing two soldiers they stopped coming. I sent a guy down and he got blasted by a Snakeman hiding in a hall. I waited several more turns but the snakeman didn't come out. I sent another guy down and he managed to survive a direct hit. He then finished off the sniper.

I figured that now the aliens would head for the lift but no one showed for 20 turns! I moved my guys around figuring the movement would make them react. Nothing! I sent a guy down. Looking around a corner he spotted a crysalid down a dark hall. Several times I popped down then back up but the bug just stared at me. So I had a rookie shoot it. Behind the crysalid was a medic and he stunned my rookie on a reaction shot. Luckily he knocked himself out as well. I pulled the rookie back up the lift and revived him.

Then I waited and waited turn after turn but still no one came. THEY WERE LEARNING! I got goosebumps! It did not seem like a game anymore but as if I was really there. They knew what I was doing and were ambushing me instead. I have never seen this in any other game before. But I have seen it in X-Com time after time. Just when I think I know the game it scares the #@$% out of me.

So I sent down a good squadie and he saw a similar ambush; a crysalid hiding in a long dark hall next to the lift. He shot on autofire and nailed the bug on the first shot. But to my horror behind him was a bunch of aliens waiting to shoot. The second autofire burst killed another bug and the third killed a Snakeman. Three with one autofire! I never saw that in ten years of play. I quickly got him up the lift where the squad was cheering at his shot.

And then I pushed the next turn button. All the Snakemen in the base panicked! The three for one shot broke their moral. Finally they crowded around the lift and my guys had a turkey shoot. Unfortunately the base commander came to his senses before I could stun the leaders and drag them up the lift. He fired a blaster shot that killed them all and wiped out the equipment.

I am half afraid to try the base camper tactic again. Who knows what new strategy they will try next. And I definately will not take rookies next time.

== Validity of Page ==

I was reading through the article page today and noticed a lot of issues concerning validity. This is probably due to lack of knowledge/experience or just plain carelessness.

Issue #1: Just because Mutons do not have Leaders or Commanders, it doesn't mean that the base will not have aliens carrying Blasters. See, Mutons substitute soldiers for the missing ranks and those soldiers are equipped as if they are the original rank. Commanders (or the substitute rank) do not carry Blasters in an alien base mission either. They only carry a Heavy Plasma, 2HP clips and an Alien Grenade.

Issue #2: Not really an issue I guess, but an addendum. Aliens do not carry Blaster Launchers in base missions in the early-mid part of the game. Ever. Later on, yes, then they start to show up. So what this means is that you can be a little more aggressive on base missions early on since you don't have to worry about one of those silver footballs flying out of the blue and ruining your day.

Issue #3: According to recent research into the game files, an alien base is equally as dark as a night time mission. And besides those objects/rooms I mentioned in the talk page which shed light, the base is basically bathed in darkness. You really don't need Electro-flares or fire to light a base since most rooms are small and offer some level of concealment, but they are helpful down long corridors leading to the command center.

Issue #4: On Superhuman, Commanders rarely spawn in the command center. Reason? There are 4 spawn points upstairs which are reserved for Leaders and/or Commanders, but on Superhuman, 4 Leaders are slated to spawn. Since Leaders spawn before Commanders do (it goes according to the pecking order in the alien loadouts section of the executable) they will usually occupy all those slots (it's not guaranteed, but there is a very high probability). Since there isn't a reserved slot for the commander anymore, it gets placed anywhere it is allowed. This makes it important to have Mind Probes along to identify (and capture) rogue commanders wandering around the base.

Issue #5: Building on #2, leaders always carry Blasters later in the game, so on Superhuman skill level it's fairly safe to storm the upstairs part of the command center with nothing more than a group of guys wearing T-shirts carrying Stun Rods. Due to self-preservation, the leaders will refrain from firing on your men since they are going to be caught within the explosion. The Small Launcher works fine too, but you may have to back up a bit or fire from below to prevent from being caught in the splash.

Issue #6: If the UBASE_03 module is present (that's the one with the Power Sources), alien engineers are guaranteed to be upstairs as there are 4 slots reserved just for them. With a maximum of 2 engineers slated to show up (usually it's only one on the lower difficulty levels) and with 4 slots available... you do the math.

That's all I have time for at the moment, but I thought I'd better toss some of these issues down before I forget. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 22:12, 25 November 2008 (CST)

: You can't go in with stun rods because reaction-fired blaster bombs seem to ignore self-preservation. Getting them to reaction fire is my primary base-destroying technique. --[[User:(name here)|(name here)]] 05:56, 26 November 2008 (CST)

I tried to get aliens to reaction fire the Blaster Launcher a long time ago with no luck. Today I revisited it again. Dropped reactions of my soldiers to 0 and ran a soldier in front of a Sectoid Leader with full TU until my soldier ran out of TU himself. Nothing. Might be a version specific issue (I'm using the CE version). --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 07:34, 26 November 2008 (CST)

: Maybe, I generally use DOS. Try it with multiple commanders, and try it with shooting. --[[User:(name here)|(name here)]] 12:22, 26 November 2008 (CST)

Talk:Alien Base

2008-11-26T11:56:47Z

(name here):

Wish List (EU)

2008-09-14T01:30:25Z

(name here):

X-Com is a great game and as evidence just look to the fact this wiki exists even though the game pre-dates the internet. In all it's greatness X-Com has some elements and behaviors players wish they could change. This is a repository of those desires. Some day a fan mod may make your wish come true...

== I Wish... ==
State what you want AND what X-com does normally. Sign your name if you think "Oh man! That would be great!"
=== Fuel Ready always ===
I wish that I could send out craft at any fuel or ammo level. Normally craft can only leave a base if fully "ready". Craft is only "ready" at 100% fuel (or 0% fuel using an exploit) but there's no logical reason why a full tank and full ammo is required. Fully repaired... that's fine. I can live with pilots refusing to fly a plane missing a wing even if it means England is lost to aliens. 15 hours to fill a tank? Retarded but I can live with that too if I can send out a craft at 20% fuel.
--[[User:Brunpal|Brunpal]]

:Actually, many modern aircraft '''do''' require the fuel tanks to be full on takeoff, and fairly empty on landing. The weight of the fuel is figured into the takeoff aerodynamics, and the tank being full prevents fuel 'sloshing' in the tanks and not actually making it to the engine. (Conversely, many aircraft need to have dispensed of much of that fuel weight before landing.) This holds for most runway-takeoff craft, but may not apply to anything with VTOL capacity; I'm unsure there.

:I do agree that non-full weapons aren't as critical, though. But from a logical standpoint, most modern aircraft should not be launched on an empty fuel tank. I also should noted that an Elerium-fueled craft with [[Known_Bugs#Elerium-fueled_Craft_Bug|50% fuel or less remaining]] will automatically return to base, regardless of distance from base. Of course, given that such craft fuel up quickly, its less of an issue there. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 22:05, 7 August 2008 (PDT)

:Hum, maybe you can try [[User:Seb76#Mods|this]]? [[User:Seb76|Seb76]] 13:01, 8 August 2008 (PDT)
::Thanks! But I can't try it. I've not been able to get my copy of Xcom to run properly except on a Win98 install. VC2008 requires a more modern OS. I'm sure I could ''eventually'' figure out a way to get it running, but I tried once and wasted too much time before giving up.--[[User:Brunpal|Brunpal]] 14:45, 8 August 2008 (PDT)
:AFAIK VC2008 binaries should run OK on Win98 as long as the runtime is deployed. Anyway, the loader uses CreateRemoteThread API which is not available in Win98 so don't even bother. '''However''', you can manually patch the binary if you want ;-) Data to patch (all in hexadecimal):
offset 0x41752: 2A0075 -> 18207C
:HTH. [[User:Seb76|Seb76]] 14:56, 8 August 2008 (PDT)

=== Smarter on Globe ===
I wish all craft understood the shortest distance between two points on a globe is a curved path towards the poles. Normally a craft goes in the opposite direction than it should (towards the equator). Pain in the ass when the base in the UK sends a craft to Siberia.
--[[User:Brunpal|Brunpal]]

===Equipment Management===

==== Soldiers remembers THEIR equipment ====
I wish soldiers remembered what equipment they LAST used and start with that gear when they land. Normally soldiers grab various gear and put lots of crap on their belt. I put most things on the shoulder slots, and keep many things spare things on the ship just in case I need them. (I only want IN rounds if it's night. Stop picking them up before I shoot you in the back!) Takes forever to sort out the gear so the weakling isn't carrying all the rockets etc.
--[[User:Brunpal|Brunpal]]

:This is already available in [[XcomUtil]]. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 22:07, 7 August 2008 (PDT)

====Access to Stats screens during equipment allocation====

In Battlescape you can get to Stats screens by right clicking on one of the unit's status bars. However you can't do this in the Equipment screen. Things like Statstrings and (even more so) [[User:Seb76|Seb76]]'s modified Equipment screen with actual/max weight help. But it would be nice to be able to see exact stats. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 12:06, 3 September 2008 (PDT)

===Fog of War Mk. 2===

I'm sure most of these would be an absolute PAIN to implement, but I figured I'd toss the ideas out here.

====Blind Dropship Pilots====
One thing that has always irked me is X-COM has no terrain knowledge when it lands, despite having probably circled the place two or three times before landing and thus they should know at least some of the area. This would be nice, but isn't too important. Probably would be a pain to implement so X-COM would have all knowledge of external features but no knowledge of building interiors, anyways. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 22:38, 7 August 2008 (PDT)

:Yes at the very least, when you splash the UFO, it could tell you (via some miracle technology such as "satellite reconnaisance") what the terrain type is of the landing zone area. Then you could adjust equipment accordingly. And adjust your uniform camouflage (if using one of the uniform mods). [[User:Spike|Spike]] 12:16, 3 September 2008 (PDT)

:: Geoscape: center on the site, then maximum zoom. Aside from having to disambiguate forest from jungle, this works fine for knowing the exact terrain you're getting into. -- [[User:Zaimoni|Zaimoni]] 10:17, 4 Sept 2008 (CDT)

:::This is already present in the game. To center the Geoscape on a specific location, right-click on the target spot. To do maximum zoom in, right click on the Zoom-In button(and the same works for Zoom-Out). Also, Jungle and Forest use the same display algorithm, but are easy to differentiate; Forest occurs NORTH of the equator, and Jungle occurs SOUTH. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 13:23, 4 September 2008 (PDT)

====Moving Fog====

The Fog of War in X-COM is clumsily implemented, compared to modern expectations. Everything starts out black, but after exploring, is shown...and it's kept in the same showing, regardless of whether you actually have LoS to that area anymore. It would be nice if when you no longer had Line of Sight to a particular map area, it would be cloaked in a way so that you knew the terrain, but not the units there. Since I've sometimes spent over half an hour trying to hunt down that last alien hiding in area I'd already explored. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 22:38, 7 August 2008 (PDT)

====Deactivate Object Radar====

Currently, in X-COM, any objects dropped in a given square show on your Battlescape, regardless of whether you have Line of Sight to the square or not. In regards to dropped weapons/grenades/equipment/dead soldiers/dead aliens, this doesn't make a large difference. But in the case of STUNNED aliens, a quick scan across the Battlescape can tell you whether the alien you stunned 10 turns ago is still down, or stood back up(the stunned alien object will disappear from the stack). Of course, since aliens which have revived from stun are almost always disarmed(and the ones that aren't probably should've been killed instead), the usefulness of this 'exploit' is reduced mainly to finding out that the last alien you're looking for is just wandering aimlessly and unarmed. Perhaps leave stacks showing the same until you regain LoS to that area? [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 22:38, 7 August 2008 (PDT)

===Score for retaliation Battleships===

When a Battleship on retaliation attacks your base and is shot down, you get no score for it. This is completely illogical and it discourages any use of base defences. You should get normal 700 (or even 1400) points for it.
--[[User:Kyrub|Kyrub]] 14:05, 30 August 2008 (PDT)

: I'm not sure about this. Yes it's illogical, but it could also be a licence to get a huge score if you have a strong enough base. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 12:16, 3 September 2008 (PDT)

===Decrease Accuracy for targets out of sight===

How come you can easily shoot on something you do not see?
I find the over-used scout-sniper tactic is a cheap exploit of the X-COM. The tactical game should describe a combat, not a cowardly shooting practice. It would turn into a nice feature, if there would be a penalty of (let us say) -20% to the accuracy of anybody who is firing on a target out of his current sight. This can greatly enhance the tactical depth of the game. (Seb around? ;-) --[[User:Kyrub|Kyrub]] 14:20, 30 August 2008 (PDT)

===Enough Smoke===

It would be nice to increase the current limit on smoke/fire hexes. This is due to their locations being stored in a small, fixed length array. In effect you can only get about 3-4 smoke grenades worth of smoke or fire on the map at the same time. Being able to use smoke liberally would really open up new tactics. At the moment all you can really do is cover the LZ in smoke when you exit the transport, and maybe cover one advance over open ground. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 12:06, 3 September 2008 (PDT)

===Restore Game from Battlescape===

It would be nice to be able to reload a saved game directly from the Battlescape "?" screen, rather than having to go through the process of Abandoning to the Geoscape. Would you need to check it was a Battlescape save and not a Geoscape save? Maybe, maybe not. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 12:06, 3 September 2008 (PDT)

===Warm Grenades===

Currently when you set the timer on a grenade (or HE pack), the timer runs down every turn regardless of whether the grenade is worn, held, or dropped. Then, when the timer runs out, it explodes unless it is held or worn. There is no real grenade or explosive that works this way. Once the timer (fuse) starts running, they explode regardless. However for most hand grenades, the timer (fuse) doesn't start until after you throw/drop the grenade. It would be nice to have both of these real world behaviours, and lose the game's default behaviour. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 12:06, 3 September 2008 (PDT)

===Stun Grenades===

I want flashbangs.--[[User:Brunpal|Brunpal]] 22:59, 11 September 2008 (PDT)
:Instead of stunning, I'd see more effect if it would remove some TUs to units having line of sight (to be fare it should affect xcom units too). It would help against reaction fire (which is the point of flashbangs). Given that grenades detonate at the end turns, it would require a good coordination to have the grenade detonate exactly at the end of the alien turn, and just before your attack. Being able to open doors à la xcom2 would also help to throw flashbangs just before a craft assault... [[User:Seb76|Seb76]] 22:03, 12 September 2008 (PDT)
::That would be good. Hard to program, potentially extremely unbalancing, but good. I considered a "debuff" kind of ability (as you suggest) for flashbangs, vs the more obvious substitution of [[stun]] for [[HE]] damage. In the end, I picked "I want flashbangs."--[[User:Brunpal|Brunpal]] 03:32, 13 September 2008 (PDT)
: Maybe flashbangs dont' work on Aliens - otherwise, XCom would use them, right? :) But seriously, I too would like flashbangs, and stun grenades / concussion grenades. Both of these would make the game easier, though. With flashbangs, you might have to compensate by just giving the aliens more TUs. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 13:33, 13 September 2008 (PDT)

===Night Vision===

I '''don't''' want to add night vision equipment to the game. I assume that either (1) all XCom units already have night vision gear as standard, but it's not as good as alien night vision, and the visibility that XCom units have at night is based on their standard-issue night vision gear, or (2) night vision gear does not work on Aliens. Either they do not appear on night vision, or maybe worse - maybe the aliens can manipulate night vision equipment, causing worse than normal vision, or hallucinations, and even tricking XCom units into firing on each other. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 13:33, 13 September 2008 (PDT)

===Throwing over stuff===

I want to throw stuff over other stuff. I don't find grenades useful. I much rather shoot a rocket launcher from outside reaction shot range because even when you miss, odds are it's close enough. The throw itself has an arc trajectory and can hit the ceiling (a feature I like) but to pick the target it has to have straight line of sight (like a bullet) which is stupid. I want to throw onto the top of buildings where I ''can't see'', or bounce a grenade off the ceiling and over the head of a squadie ''because '' I don't have line of sight with a gun. If I had line of sight, I would just shoot since that costs less TU even if I already had an armed grenade.

The easiest way to accomplish this is to keep "out of range" but remove "you can't throw there" and just let a solider throw to any square they want. A better way is to keep the warning but give the player the option to try the throw anyway. If you can't really throw there, then oops... that's your badly positioned live grenade to deal with.--[[User:Brunpal|Brunpal]] 22:59, 11 September 2008 (PDT)
:I did some tests disabling the "you can't throw there" check and it does not work. The grenade ends up in the vicinity of the throwing unit. Actually the line of sight is not used when throwing objects. I'm 98% sure it simulates the throwing of the object and if it intercepts anything, the throw is refused. [[User:Seb76|Seb76]] 04:47, 13 September 2008 (PDT)

:: The explicit emulation of the trajectory has been verified as part of the throwing range testing by [[User:Zombie|Zombie]] and myself. The range bands are not consistent with a continuous model; they look like a table lookup from the same source 3rd ed. GURPS (Steve Jackson Games) uses. -- [[User:Zaimoni|Zaimoni]] 8:21 13 September 2008 (CDT)

:::Units don't need LOS to an area to throw a grenade, as evidenced by my favored tactic of chucking an Alien Grenade or HE Pack into any Medium or Large Scout which has had the roof blown away in the crash from outside to 'pacify' any remaining crew. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 09:22, 13 September 2008 (PDT)

===Enforced Variant Games===

Various people like to play various variant games, such as No Alien Technology, or No Detection, or No Lethal Weapons - see for example Scott Jones' notes to XComUtil. It would be nice to have options on the game executable to enforce these scenarios. Self restraint is hard! [[User:Spike|Spike]] 12:06, 3 September 2008 (PDT)

===Assault Time Limit===

One of the cool things about UFO Defence is there are no time limits on the scenarios. This is great as it allows for a totally different kind of tactics and much more flexibility.
It's more of a "thinking man's game" as a result. But... arguably this is not very realistic for UFO Assault missions. If the Aliens are getting creamed, they should try to make a getaway if they can (just like XCom would). A simple way to implement this would be a hard time limit (say 20 turns?) on a UFO Assault. Another way would be to base it on Alien Morale. At a certain Morale level the aliens decide to dust off. Give the player say 3 turns warning while they rev up the engines. Then if there is still a Navigator or Engineer in the Control Room alive, the ship takes off. Any XCom troops still aboard are MIA.

You might run into problems if the UFO took off but then landed again or was shot down, generating another ground mission with potentially '''more''' Aliens than were still alive at the end of the Assault. (Still, maybe they hatch some more clones if they get time to....) [[User:Spike|Spike]] 09:51, 4 September 2008 (PDT)

: It strikes me as justified they don't do that. Troops loose in the vessel could be seriously bad. It would be nice if they dusted off on the condition that their morale was low enough or 3 X-com soldiers had the door in their sights without aliens alive outside in the latter case and no X-com soldiers on board in either case. also, if the UFO has a hole in either the command or engine room, it would have to set down before leaving the atmosphere.

===Base Build Stacking===

At the moment you are only allowed to build next to a finished module, and you aren't allowed to plan ahead in your base construction. It would be nice to at least be able to plan more than one phase of construction in advance. This would be pretty easy to implement. There is no need to code any new "queuing system". Just place the new module next to an existing under-construction module, but increment the build time to the normal build time + the time remaining on the under-construction module (the lowest time remaining that would make the square you are building in, a legal square to build in). As a premium for build stacking, you have to pay the costs up-front. As with normal construction, all costs are non-refundable if you change your mind. (There would probably need to be some on-screen feedback for how long the module would take to build, before you were committed to building it.) [[User:Spike|Spike]] 12:06, 3 September 2008 (PDT)

===Recuit Certain Enemy===

Consider that not all alien loyal to its master (most TFTD alien has a device lodged to its brain), it should be interesting (or at least cool) if we can recuit such alien. Maybe we can replace those controling device from captive alien after research that specie. Or convince head of the Snakemen that it would be far more benefit to help us instead of the Ethereal [[User:L-Zwei|L-Zwei]] 23:25, 12 September 2008 (PDT).

==Fix All Bugs==

Oh no [[User:Seb76|Seb76]] already did this! :) [[User:Spike|Spike]] 12:06, 3 September 2008 (PDT)

== Category ==
The page needs to be listed in various categories, which ones I don't know. Also links on other pages to this one would aid people finding it.

: OK how about this one: [[User:Spike|Spike]] 12:21, 3 September 2008 (PDT)

[[Category:Oddities and bugs]]

Talk:Laser Rifle

2008-08-31T03:11:37Z

(name here):

Speaking of head shots, [http://ufoai.ninex.info/wiki/index.php/Skills/sniper UFO:AI] has a head shot feature. :)

I'm not entirely convinced that the Laser Rifle is the best weapon in the game, though it is a dramatic step up from conventional weapons in the early game. I recall that often it wouldn't be able to kill the enemy in one shot, while the [[Heavy Plasma]] or [[Plasma Rifle]] would. Unlimited ammo is a very nice feature, but by the endgame I was usually swimming in plasma ammo and elerium. Also, can plasma rounds destroy certain wall sections that lasers cannot? -[[User:Captain Foo|Captain Foo]] 08:19, 29 August 2008 (PDT)

: Arguably indeed. It's not the best weapon in the game, but neither is the heavy plasma. It's a good all-rounder though that can match the pace of the Heavy Plasma. What the laser rifle offers over the heavy plasma in addition to the unlimited ammo is one extra free slot on the transport (which you can use to include even heavier firepower) and a faster firing mode. It's moderately powerful enough to tackle anything in the game - if perhaps not with one shot (which is where the speed offsets its lower damage - more shots = more damage). The faster speed also allows the laser rifle to be a more effective reaction-shot weapon (only the pistol and laser pistol are better). Because the aliens are swimming in heavy plasmas, you still have the option of grabbing one off the ground if you need that extra firepower to breach inner UFO walls, so you are not denied the abilities of the heavy plasma by arming a laser rifle. I guess you could say that it offers flexibility. - [[User:NKF|NKF]] 14:18, 29 August 2008 (PDT)

Hi again guys. Personally, I do think the laser rifle is the best squad weapon in the game, but mainly for aesthetic reasons. Strictly the heavy plasma gives you the most net firepower, even taking into account the ammo requirements. OK, in a theoretical 'siege' scenario where the aliens were too well dug in and you needed to fire huge numbers of rounds, the laser rifle would come out ahead - but I'm not aware of any such missions. The ammo requirement of the heavy plasma doesn't materially compensate for its increased firepower. In my view this makes it an unbalanced weapon from a game design point of view - similar to Psionics, it is just too 'optimal' to make the game balanced. And that's my somewhat sentimental reason for preferring the laser rifle. Good, clean, effective, does-the-job human technology - none of that alien nonsense!

Actually let me advance an indirect argument why the laser rifle might actually be the best weapon in objective terms as well. Heavy Plasmas sell for a small fortune, and are a large proportion of the total value of all recovered items. If every recovered Heavy Plasma was sold, instead of being used to equip troops, that is a very significant flow of capital investment that can be used to rapidly build up the strategic power of X-COM - building Hyperwave decoders, bases, aircraft, and recruiting more manpower. In this strategy, captured Heavy Plasmas could still be used tactically during a battle for key objectives such as penetrating UFO interior walls. I haven't tested it, but I have a strong belief that would be a faster route to victory. Thoughts? [[User:Spike|Spike]] 07:44, 30 August 2008 (PDT)

::The only thing I'll point out is the Heavy Plasmas needed to equip troops is a small fraction of the supply. After a few missions, you'll be swimming in them, especially if you're doing supply ship raids, which will generally let you haul back about ten. Earmarking 20-30 Heavy Plasmas for troop use improves combat effectiveness and allows you to more easily collect more. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 07:48, 30 August 2008 (PDT)
::: Agreed, i wind up with way more heavy plasmas than i could ever possibly need. also, they kill mutons dead.--[[User:(name here)|(name here)]] 08:56, 30 August 2008 (PDT)

: Everyone and their grandmother's neighbour's cousin's (twice removed) pet dog has a heavy plasma before long. The game practically forces you to end up with way more supplies than you'll ever need - and money - to win the game. I guess if you're adamant on using the Heavy Plasma as your main weapon, the preference on whether to load a heavy plasma or a laser rifle onto the ship is ''when'' you get to use the heavy plasma. From the very start (sans the extra goodies), or a few turns in (and a handful of extra high explosives/large rockets). There will be some on the field anyway. I like to use a mix of weapons myself, but don't stock heavy plasmas on the troop transport for that very reason. The Art of War states that "One heavy plasma taken from the enemy is worth ten bushels." or something like that... Um, never mind. Both weapons get the job done, so it's a matter of preference. - [[User:NKF|NKF]] 09:10, 30 August 2008 (PDT)

For what it's worth, I usually did bring along a set of laser rifles on later missions as insurance in case my troops run out of ammo. Their primary weapons were heavy plasma and plasma rifles of course, so the laser rifles usually got left in the dropshop. I'm not sure the laser rifles got used in late game except for really really long missions, but I suppose the insurance is good. [[User:Captain Foo|Captain Foo]] 10:11, 30 August 2008 (PDT)

::Why bother? There's spare Heavy Plasma all over the battlefield. Just stop by your nearest Dead Alien Armory(TM) to continue bringing the fight to those invaders! [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 17:03, 30 August 2008 (PDT)

: Continuing on the 'economic/strategy' argument... OK fair enough, it's only the Heavy Plasmas you equip your squads with that matter, since everyone's going to sell off their surplus. A Heavy Plasma 'costs' slightly above $150K more than a Laser Rifle (more if you include ammo costs). So your opportunity cost, anytime you don't have more money than you can use, is >$150K per soldier armed with Heavy Plasma. So for ten soldiers armed with Heavy Plasma, you are forgoing (say) an extra 2 Large Radars, a Hyperwave Decoder, an extra base, 1500 days of continuing (no new hire) research, or 750 days of new-hire research. For the opportunity cost of arming 20 soldiers with Heavy Plasma ($3M), you can build a whole extra base complete with Interceptor and Large Radar. That's going to double your intercept rate (?) and effectively double your progress in the game. Do the tactical advantages of Heavy Plasmas make up for that? I'm not sure. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 10:50, 30 August 2008 (PDT)

::Shoring up cash deficits is why the good programmers gave us [[Laser Cannon|these]] to [[Manufacturing_Profitability#Profit_tables|build.]] [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 17:03, 30 August 2008 (PDT)

::: If you seriously lack enough money to build overlapping detection bases across the globe, you should try selling alien alloys more. it's like high tech scrap metal.

Talk:Laser Rifle

2008-08-30T15:56:29Z

(name here):

Talk:Alien Missions

2008-08-27T16:15:16Z

(name here):

I'm curious, can people tell me if the aliens will ONLY retaliate against bases if the player is shooting down UFO's, and won't retaliate against the player always attacking UFO's while landed.

Having recently tried Superhuman for the first time, I was caught off-guard when the aliens retaliated against a base in early March for me shooting a single UFO down (in February, I think) near that base. It wasn't even in the same country... I got the impression that simply being in the same world-region draws the attack.

I decided to restart the game from scratch, disbanded all my interceptors, and only attacked UFO's using Avengers following them until they landed... this actually worked extremely well... I have the alien menace under control so far, and I've saved tons of money by not having interceptors, avalanche missiles, hangars, and all the other support infrastructure.

However, I'm actually a little disappointed that the game lets you get away with this no-intercept strategy. I think next game I will come up with a strategy to go back to interceptors with "hardened" bases very early in the game (though how I'll get cash for that, I have no idea).

If I were to come up with one improvement to the game, it would be to make air-superiority more essential throughout the game... I would make the UFO's "aggro" vs. Skyrangers -- if they spot a nearby Skyranger they will attack and destroy it! Later in the game, I would make the Battleship ALWAYS attack any SLOWER craft it spots in the air... the idea is to wear down the player's air assets and knock him out of the sky. As the game currently is, you really don't need air-superiority if you have ground-superiority!

[[User:Eric|Eric]] 21:57, 12 July 2006 (PDT)

----

I've had more or less the same experience as you with Retaliations: after shooting down only one UFO, I got regular visits from a Retaliation scout on that continent.

Ground Assault-only works pretty well, but there are several cases where Interception is preferable:

* When the UFO doesn't make a landing at all (Retaliation scouts don't, for instance, and bigger ships often don't know where to land if you kill their scouts beforehand);
* Infiltration missions (4 or more ships show up at once, and unless you have 4+ Skyrangers, you'll need to shoot down one or more craft); Harvesters often show up in pairs, too;
* Distance (unless you've got multiple Skyrangers posted around the world, you might not be able to reach a UFO before it takes off again);
* Night missions (If the UFO arrives at its target at dusk, it'll probably leave before daybreak; it's easier to down it, then storm it at your leisure);
* Terror Ships (I bloody hate terror missions).

--[[User:Ethereal Cereal|Ethereal Cereal]] 10:31, 12 July 2006 (PDT)

----

To be fair, after running a few non-related tests that involved getting a HWD from the very start, I have noticed that the very first UFO you spot can begin on retaliation mission.

Interceptions - or rather - shoot-downs do attract them, that's for sure.

- [[User:NKF|NKF]]

----------------------------------

I ran into the "latency" issue with using Skyrangers, but came up with a workaround: I figured out each month what region the aliens were focusing on -- Australasia in February 1999, for example. My main (first) base with my Skyranger was on the NORTH POLE!!!, so obviously catching a UFO scout picked up on radar over Australasia before it disappeared was extremely unlikely -- a 12 hour one-way trip -- and if I did it would probably be at night anyway. Well, my workaround was, once I figured out Australasia was "targeted", I would send the Skyranger down there on a regular schedule, timed to arrive an hour or two before dawn -- the immense fuel capacity of the Skyranger allows it to loiter on station, over Australia, for over 12 hours before returning. It would then spend the next 12 hours or so refueling and then be ready for the next mission -- thus I could have a Skyranger in the region of alien activity during daylight every other day. Turns out the aliens would frequently show up early in the day and land during daylight with the Skyranger right nearby -- I snagged several UFO's on the ground in Australasia this way.

Another strategy I came up with was placing my bases specifically to be equidistant around the globe -- the idea being to pick up the UFO's far outside the target region -- South Asia in March, for example, is picked up over New Zealand -- giving me plenty of warning to launch a Skyranger... by the time the UFO has picked a landing spot, the Skyranger is close enough to snag it on the ground during daytime. My bases are on the north/south poles, baja california, north africa, taiwan, fiji, paraguay, and madagascar -- roughly on the tropics every 60 degrees. I have Skyrangers based from the poles -- the rest are listening posts (and eventually interceptor bases).

[[User:Eric|Eric]] 21:57, 12 July 2006 (PDT)

----

Interesting approach. In terms of global coverage, I usually wait until I've got the Hyper-Wave to build most of my bases. One per continent generally does the trick.

Could you detail your build-out sequence more? When do you build additional bases, how many Skyrangers do you have, and when do you acquire them?

--[[User:Ethereal Cereal|Ethereal Cereal]] 22:58, 13 July 2006 (PDT)

----

Yeah I'm currently torn regarding the hyperwave decoder issue... not too long after I get my bases built, the radar systems become "obsolete".

The idea is to have a "picket defense" -- rather than putting a base smack in the middle of each "high value" country, distribute bases evenly and try to pick up enemy UFO's inbound when they're far away from the high value country, and (eventually once the bases are built up) I can send multiple interceptors to converge on the UFO, because I have plenty of advance warning on where it is going.

OK, to detail my build plan: I build X-ARCTICOM first -- what can I say, I'm a fan of symmetry... it also has the benefit of being at the "center" of the northern hemisphere. I of course build an Alien Containment facility on day one. In my current game, I scrapped the third hangar and the 2nd interceptor... but if I had to do it over, strictly from a "winning" standpoint, I would scrap both of the southern hangars and both interceptors... the Skyranger is all that's required early on. But, I'm starting to think the no-intercept approach is a little cheesy so I'm trying to work out how to play the game "honest" while still maintaining my basic strategy.

On day one, I begin construction of X-NOAMERICOM, on the southern tip of Baja California. All future bases are added as money becomes available, but I give them extremely high priority in terms of funding... each base gets just long range and short range radars -- they are listening posts. The idea is, I'm trying to prevent the aliens from having any open spots they can harrass with impunity early in the game (my first Superhuman game, Australia signed a non-aggression pact in either February or March). As funding becomes availabe, the buildout is as follows:

X-NOAFRICOM (on the Prime Meridian and the Tropic of Cancer -- saharan desert)

X-SEASIACOM (western tip of Taiwan -- the closest I could get to E120 degrees)

X-AUSTRALCOM (actually in Fiji, closest to the international date line and Tropic of Capricorn)

X-SOAMERICOM (roughly paraguay -- W60 degrees and Tropic of Capricorn)

X-SOAFRICOM (Madagascar, closest to E60 degrees and Tropic of Capricorn)

X-ANTARCTICOM (south pole)

Technically the latitudes should be a tad closer to the equator to be truly equidistant (I worked the trig out once) but the tropic circles are easy to find on a map, have a pleasing simplicity to them, and the "high value real estate" is closer to the poles than the equator anyway, so nudging the bases a little closer to the poles works just fine.

The idea is to build a mirror of X-ARCTICOM down at X-ANTARCTICOM -- again, this provides both redundancy and also makes it easier to cover the southern hemisphere.

As I happened to play the game I only had one Skyranger until I built up X-ANTARCTICOM, but if I did it over again, I would probably go with two per polar base and 20 soldiers at each base -- enough for 10 men + 1 HWP per Skyranger. Then once X-ANTARCTICOM was built I would transfer one of the veteran squads from X-ARCTICOM down south and draft some new soldiers for both bases.

But, the idea is to give the the listening posts absolute top priority. Also, I've found that it's not ineffective to build small+large radars prior to the invention of the hyperwave decoder... they do the job... just not as well as the HWD. If I had to do things over, actually, I would postpone HWD research for better interceptor tech... and then once I have great interceptor bases, I would worry about having perfect UFO detection. Not that I'm opposed to HWD's... it's just a question of priorities. It's also more in keeping with what the game designers intended... they expected us to have to slug it out with simple radar tech for a while.

[[User:Eric|Eric]] 17:44, 14 July 2006 (PDT)

== More info on mission waves ==

Every mission wave will be carried out by one alien race, typically in one continental zone over one month. Regular mission waves will consist of just a few small ships, increasing in size. These are the bread and butter missions for X-COM. Retalition waves consist of a series of scouts, increasing in size, ending with a battleship. If any of them detects the base then a new battleship will head straight for the base and attack it, otherwise the retaliation wave ends harmlessly.

The medium sized harvester and research ships have a different pattern, the same ships landing repeatedly until you deal with them. Large terror ships arrive once a month to terrorise cities but can also make extra unexplained flights without landing.

Alien bases are usually constructed by the simultaneous landing of a small ship, two large supply ships, and a battleship in the same zone. It's a good idea to recover at least the small ship to see what type of alien is building the base. Thereafter, two supply ships each month fly quickly into the base and depart, too quick for interceptors and distant skyrangers. - Egor

------
Something I noticed from a game I played when I made all my bases nearly impregnable with Fusion Ball Defenses and Grav Shields: The aliens seem to have a limited queue of missions. Since they were unable to break into any of my bases and had a large number of bases on Earth, the only missions I ever saw were Battleships on retaliation runs and Supply Ships on supply runs. On my newer file, where I use garrisons instead of flak, I see a lot of different types of ships on different types of missions.

--[[User:Dumas|Dumas]] 13:36, 8 November 2006 (PST)

-----

That is the FIRST decent reason I have seen to build base defense and avoid the tactical battles. With no infiltration or terror missions to worry about, the game becomes a lot easier. I wonder if the scenario can be easily reproduced?

- [[User:Bomb Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] 14:32, 8 November 2006 (PST)

-----
I think I only managed to get the defenses up after I'd lost almost all the funding countries to infiltration. It definitely did cut down on the Terror missions, though. The Harvest, Abduction, etc. also went down a lot. The large amount of research required to obtain Fusion Balls would make it impractical, I think. You would need to assault an Alien Base or large UFO (I'm not sure which ones carry Blasters) for the Blaster Launcher (or take one on a base defense mission). The Grav Shield requires even more time for development since it follows the Lightning. And of course you have to do research for armour and troop weapons, too.

Add on top of that the high cost of the defenses ($1.2Mil for the Shield, $800K per Launcher...say, $5.2Mil for five Launchers and a Shield) and the month-long construction, and I'm not so sure that base defense missions are worth avoiding. Also, the Battle ships seemed to come every five minutes or so.

--[[User:Dumas|Dumas]] 15:01, 8 November 2006 (PST)

----

It sounds like good points, both ways... it sounds potentially really interesting, but it's also true that timing is everything... Many of us can probably get to a stable place where we've usually retained every country by the time we have the Hyperwave, ships, and men to shoot down or let land anything we want... At which point the cash is also rolling in and lots of defenses can be made... But once you reach that point, it becomes kind of moot, the need to channel UFO waves away from infiltration and terror... Hmm. Unless one is playing particular self-imposed variants (like, no Psi attacking), the rush for Hyperwave, Psi, and Avenger is probably the quickest course to domination. Hmm... - [[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]] 15:39, 8 November 2006 (PST)

== Retaliation Tradeoffs ==

Some people seem to indicate that shooting down a Retaliation Scout will intensify retaliation efforts, as if in some cases it's better to just hope the scout doesn't find the base. This seems a little strange on the surface, given there's already a retaliation mission underway, and in the end the key is to prevent the scout from finding your base -- shooting it down would seem to guarantee that.

However, I also read that retaliation scouting is performed by a series of ever larger craft until they find the base.

This makes me wonder if perhaps what's really going on is that shooting down a smaller scout will cause the next-larger and more dangerous scout to quickly appear... so it accelerates the escalation of retaliation scouting efforts by the aliens. I'm guessing that perhaps the larger the scouting UFO, the better its base detection capabilities. Perhaps you're better off risking a small scout wasting time looking, than to shoot down several UFO's until you have battleships scouting the area and posing a far greater threat.

The upshot being, if you have total air-superiority -- HWD coverage spotting everything, backed up by plenty of heavily armed Firestorms/Avengers to knock anything and everything immediately out of the sky -- go ahead and actively thwart the retaliation scouting missions, but if you only have limited air-defenses, you're better off crossing your fingers that they don't spot your base before the end of the month (the retaliation scouting mission terminates at the end of the month, yes?).

[[User:Eric|Eric]] 13:59, 9 December 2006 (PST)

* If the scout does not find your base, shooting down a retaliation scout has the same effect as shooting down any other UFO: the next retaliation scout UFO is delayed. Shooting down anything near your base can start a series of Retalation Scouts, as can simply scoring a lot of points.
* If your base is ''not'' found by any UFOs in the Retaliation mission series in [[MISSIONS.DAT]] (including the searching Battleships), the series will end normally.
* I do not know what the representation of a base being targeted for a base defense mission is, in the save files. It seems to be more of a fact about a base.

-- [[User:Zaimoni|Zaimoni]] 17:07, 10 December 2006 (CST)

LOL... I should have known that it was a waste of time for me to speculate on the inner workings of the game, when this group has already thoroughly dissected the game files and know how almost all of it works. Reading that MISSION.DAT page almost ruined the game for me... I'll have to make sure not to study it too much... the amazing thing about X-COM for me was always the mysterious behavior of the aliens.

[[User:Eric|Eric]] 07:13, 11 December 2006 (PST)

==Retaliation and Defenses==

:''Once your base is located, they will continuously send Battleships at the base until one breaks through your defences. They will not stop until this happens.''

Does this mean that base defenses are all basically valueless (except maybe Mind Shield), unless you basically want to get stuck with a constant stream of battleships attacking you over and over leaving little room for anything else to happen in the game (probably make for a very high score I guess)?

I have never really bothered with defenses because its more interesting to do the base defense missions to vary things from time to time, but seems a little odd that it is set up like this. Would the retaliations stop at the end of a month?

--[[User:Sfnhltb|Sfnhltb]] 00:26, 4 March 2007 (PST)

: That is correct. They just keep coming until one comes through. Well, one for each group of aliens targeting that base, that is. I think we have discussed either on the wiki or on one of our associated web forums that destroying the battleship this way does not generate any activity points. But getting more concrete data always helps.

: The only real benefit of having impenetrable base defenses would be if you need some time to prepare for the battle, either through getting more soldiers, more equipment or going so far as to reshape the corridor layout in your base. Once you're ready, reduce the effectiveness of your defences and have at it.

:- [[User:NKF|NKF]]

::It suddenly occurs to me that since base defenses don't reduce the number of aliens that show up unless they shoot down the battleship altogether (right?), then they're totally useless unless they're impenetrable (and then you'll have to see the base defenses screen constantly).--[[User:Ethereal Cereal|Ethereal Cereal]] 02:29, 4 March 2007 (PST)

:::Well like a lot of things, if a battleship is destroyed by defenses is left up to chance. I've seen 3 Fusion defense hits take out a battleship, and 3 hits that don't. If you have less than optimal defenses like say 2 Fusion defenses and a shield (effectively 4 fusions) you will repel a good amount of attacks on the base, and hopefully the first one in case you didn't know it was coming (which I guess is absurd as you should have HWDs if you have good enough defenses) or you're not prepared for a battle (those HWPs aren't built quite yet). Hopefully the first few times the attack wouldn't get through, but in time it should. I remember Tsereve complaining how the aliens got through his defenses (which were pretty good, 3 or 4 fusion balls and a grav shield). The likely-hood of them penetrating it was less than a percent (I think). So I guess they are never truly 'impenetrable', but it's easy to get improbable odds.

:::It's kind of a wacky theory or situation to need it though, by the time you have these uber-defenses, the aliens should be putty in your hand. All in all I believe you get zip for shooting down a UFO this way, not even score (if there is a score it's little and less than the score from saving your base). Compare that to the spoils of the base defense and it seems rather obvious. I'll admit that I don't like base defense missions (especially early on) as I seem to do bad with them (getting better).

:::If I get around to working on PyXCOM some more, one of the things I'm hoping to 'add' is that base defenses will lower the number of aliens seen in combat, by simply 'simulating' the damage they would do and removing aliens before combat. (Exact scaling of such reduction I'm not sure of)
:::My 2 cents --[[User:Pi Masta|Pi Masta]] 18:51, 4 March 2007 (PST)

::::If the next battleship in the sequence had to find out the previous was blown up, prep, and come into earth with a few hours delay then I could see some point to them, as you could marshal your defenses to some extent while the first few are knocked out, transfer across some soldiers and weapons etc, and then let them in (which I guess if you had big enough defenses to hold them off, would probably involved disbanding your grav shield or something, which is fairly extreme thing to have to do). With it being a few minutes, it would just be a drag to have to wait out hundreds of battleship attacks while you got ready. And the same point you made - how can you have that much air defense in a base, but not enough ground defense, its far cheaper and easier to get together some soldiers, a few half decent weapons, and a few hwps on each base and beat up them up the first time they come for any reasonable strategy I can think of. --[[User:Sfnhltb|Sfnhltb]] 19:03, 4 March 2007 (PST)

::Mostly my point was the "lesser" defenses are really pretty pointless: you either build a superdefense or it's useless (provided you like watching the defense screen repeatedly anyway). One aspect of the game the devs failed to tune right. Can't complain; base defense is still fun.--[[User:Ethereal Cereal|Ethereal Cereal]] 00:56, 5 March 2007 (PST)

==What does it take for Alien Infiltration to be successful?==

- I (tequilachef) had the following situation: After two failed attempts to infiltrate China (I had shot down every single UFO participating in the infiltrations, even the battleships) one single battleship returned on an infiltration mission (i am absolutely certain China was not infiltrated at this point). I shot down the UFO over India and checked the area for an alien base just to be certain... China had been infiltrated. Then I tried the following: I reloaded an savegame about 2-3 days before the battleship turned up. I ordered my Avengers (8 in total) to take up positions all over the globe. Even when shooting down the craft rigth after entering the atmosphere and thereby sending it to the ground of the antarctic sea (which is about 10.000 miles from China) the infiltration was successful. This made me wonder how infiltration works. My most intelligent guess was that even infiltration attempts that fail get the aliens some "infiltration points" for that specific country or area, depending on how long the UFOs are operational. This would explain why there was just one craft on that mission and why infiltrating China was sucessful. The ailens were only short very few points! My question to all the X-COM scientists around here: have you discovered the mechanics behind infiltration? Have you seen similar situations?

Zombie says, "According to my preliminary results, Russia cannot be infiltrated in the CE version of X-COM so losing the game by this method is impossible." (Jun 16, 2005, StrategyCore forums)

Several players have however offered a different opinion on this matter and have lost Russia.

: Precident from alien base operations would suggest that the infiltration occurs when the last UFO enters earth atmosphere--[[User:(name here)|(name here)]] 09:15, 27 August 2008 (PDT)

== How do missions work ==

I'd like to know how missions work. In previous games (back in the 90s) I've seen quite a few abductors and harvesters. Now, not a single one. Is it possible that my early interception has become too good? Will the aliens cancel missions? Alternatively: in [[MISSIONS.DAT]] it says that downing one UFO will delay the arrival of the next one on the same mission... is there a maximum time per mission, so if the last ships are delayed too long they won't come at all?

All I see once HWDs are up are retaliation, infiltration, and terror missions. Incidentally, neither of these can be prevented by downing scouts. So is it just bad luck when I never get a harvest or abduction mission? --[[User:Schnobs|Schnobs]] 16:00, 29 October 2007 (PDT)

: The maximum time to the next UFO in a series seems to be on the order of three weeks (this is a soft number). Note that Terror sites can be prevented by downing Terrorships. If there indeed is a "maximum missions at once" limit (don't have hard confirmation), Infiltration will clog things up eventually because it loops back instead of terminating. --[[User:Zaimoni|Zaimoni]] 11:11, 30 October 2007 (CDT)

== Supply mission probabilities ==

Every day, each alien base has a 5% chance of spawning a supply mission. If someone wants to play with this, the probability is dictated here (gold edition):

.text:00441DC6 cmp ax, 6
.text:00441DCA jnb short continue
[[User:Seb76|Seb76]] 11:28, 9 March 2008 (PDT)

Alien Missions

2008-08-27T16:05:58Z

(name here):

UFOs are sent out periodically to conduct a number of types of '''Alien Missions''', some of whom the purpose is fairly inscrutable, others are fairly obvious in their reasoning. Especially once the [[Hyper-Wave Decoder]] is deployed knowing the mission of the aliens can help make strategic plans for further actions that the aliens may attempt in the near future.

==Alien Research==
The Alien research mission is used for collecting basic data on Earth and its inhabitants. Small vehicles are predominantly used, with occasional landings in deserted areas. This type of Alien activity poses the least threat to X-COM, with little concern from governments or the public.

Aliens do not directly [[Scoring#Alien_Scoring|score]] for this mission.

==Alien Harvest==
The Aliens have many uses for Earth's fauna. Animals are abducted secretly, and returned with various organs removed. Cattle mutilations are predominantly reported along with [[UFOs|UFO]] sightings. This type of Alien activity causes great concern by governments and considerable anxiety amongst the population. This type of activity occurs mainly in farming land. The theory behind the 'Alien Harvest' suggests that Alien races originally "seeded" the planet with its flora and fauna, and now they have returned to reap the harvest they have sown.

If successful the aliens will [[Scoring#Alien_Scoring|score]] 30 points, which is eventually subtracted from your score.

==Alien Abduction==
This is the most insidious form of Alien activity. The abduction by Aliens is widely reported, despite the Aliens' attempts to erase the experience from their victims' memories. Abductees report being subject to humiliating physical examinations, including impregnation of alien foetuses and bizarre genetic experiments. The purpose behind this activity appears to be linked to genetic mutation and manipulation of the Aliens own genetic material. This activity causes great alarm, and occurs in populated areas or cities.

If successful the aliens will [[Scoring#Alien_Scoring|score]] 50 points, which is eventually subtracted from your score.

==Alien Infiltration==
This Alien mission represents the worst threat to X-COM. Earth governments can be infiltrated by Alien agents which are Human in appearance. This can result in official contact between Aliens and governments at the highest level. The climax of this activity is characterised by intense [[UFOs|UFO]] activity in the vicinity of major cities. The aliens will attempt to sign a [[pact]] with an earth government by offering knowledge of their superior technology. In return, the government will allow the Aliens to conduct their activity unhindered.

If a government agrees to a pact then its funding will cease. If successful the aliens will [[Scoring#Alien_Scoring|score]] 150 points, which is eventually subtracted from your score.

Five UFOs take part in an Infiltration mission, landing in both the target and neighboring countries. Two of these are often [[Battleship]]s. It has not been conclusively shown that shooting down the Battleships or [[UFO Ground Assault|assaulting the landed ships]] will stop the infiltration from succeeding. See the [[Talk:Alien_Missions|talk page]] for discussion on this matter.

When a country is successfully infiltrated an alien base will be created in or near the country. Always check for alien bases after infiltration missions. This way you can get points by destroying it and know how much money you will lose at the end of the month.

==Alien Base==
Aliens will construct secret underground bases in remote locations. After some initial reconnaissance flights some intense [[UFOs|UFO]] activity will occur as the base is being built. These bases are known to contain experimental labs for human abductees, and supplies for further activity in the region. The presence of Alien bases will generate a large amount of reported Alien activity without the presence of UFOs. In order to locate a base, an [[Craft|X-COM craft]] must patrol an area for a few hours to stand some chance of detection. An [[Alien Base Assault]] will remove the threat but should never be taken lightly.

If successful the aliens will [[Scoring#Alien_Scoring|score]] 50 points, and an extra 5 points per day which is eventually subtracted from your score.

There is no limit to the number of alien bases that can be built, but there is a limit as to how many can exist on the globe at the same time. Only fifty Geoscape Tokens (bases, waypoints, ships, etc) that can exist on the globe at any given time, and because you have to share this space with pretty much everything that you can interact with on the Geoscape, you can only have as many Alien bases as there are unused slots.

Note: UFO flight pattern investigation has found that the base is placed as soon as the battleship arrives in the atnosphere, so if it shows, the aliens have a base.

==Alien Terror==
When the Aliens [[Terror Mission|terrorise]] a city, they will deploy some [[Terror Units|special forces]] with awesome powers. [[Civilian]]s will be directly threatened, and governments will be forced to evacuate whole areas. The main purpose behind this activity is to generate sufficient public hysteria so that governments will threaten the X-COM project.

If successful the aliens will [[Scoring#Alien_Scoring|score]] 1000 points, which is eventually subtracted from your score.

==Alien Retaliation==
If X-COM [[Interceptor]]s are being particularly successful in shooting down [[UFOs]] then the Aliens may take some [[Alien Retaliation|retaliatory]] action. This could result in a direct attack against an [[Base Defense|X-COM base]]. However, the aliens have to find an X-COM base in order to attack it, and provided UFOs are kept away then there should be little danger of an assault.

Aliens do not directly [[Scoring#Alien_Scoring|score]] for this mission. Losing a base will give you negative points depending on what was in the base.

==Alien Supply==
Once an Alien base is constructed, it is resupplied on a regular basis by special [[Supply Ship|supply vessels]]. If one of these vessels is detected while landing then it is certain that an Alien base is nearby.

Aliens do not directly [[Scoring#Alien_Scoring|score]] for this mission.

Note that supply ships on supply missions are always at a speed that makes them impossible to shoot down by interceptors, even shortly before landing or after taking off. This means they can only be attacked while landed unless new aircrafts have been researched and built. Since they will certainly land this would be a waste of [[Elerium]] since your craft will need some for the interception and the Elerium in the ship might be destroyed.

Piracy time. You may want to let the Alien base exist, just for millions of dollars plundered from the Supply "Blimps". Arrrrrr, avast ye Space-Lubbers!

==See Also==
[[Alien Life Forms]] 
[[UFOs]]

[[Category:Missions]]

Talk:Micronoid Aggregate (Apocalypse)

2008-08-27T15:56:15Z

(name here):

Do the pools of blood from dead aliens mean, that a huge micronoid is hiding somewhere in the city, composed of thousands small micronoids escaped from the pools before the cleanerbots arrived? Waiting to burst out when it is strong enough or when X-Com have advanced enough?
:--[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 04:28, 26 August 2008 (PDT)

----

Technically speaking?

Yes.

Yes, they do.

- [[User:Bomb Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] 21:05, 26 August 2008 (PDT)

----

Then again, they probably don't live for very long outside of a host or in an ideal environment that is suited to them (first alien building or inside the Bomber UFO). -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 22:23, 26 August 2008 (PDT)

----

Don't listen to him, the Micronoid already have him under their control! That's just what they WANT you to think!!

Run! Run, while you still can!!!

- [[User:Bomb Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] 02:09, 27 August 2008 (PDT)

----

NFK, check the biochemistry section; micronoids aren't as inept at Earth environment survival unlike other aliens. They just need a host, like an unsuspecting civilian or someone from the cleaner crew to negate poor conditions.

And Bomb: you are being observed... not watched, but observed...
:--[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 02:29, 27 August 2008 (PDT)

----
It's a good thing mega primus has robot cleaners.--[[User:(name here)|(name here)]] 08:56, 27 August 2008 (PDT)

Talk:Anthropod (Apocalypse)

2008-08-21T17:03:47Z

(name here):

After a few probings, the stats of anthropods suggest them being physically a little weaker than humans, and a further test confirms this; throwing a [[Devastator Cannon]] is very tough for anthropods.

This makes them pretty pathetic in my opinion, as humans are pretty weak ( in real life ) naturally. Anthropods also have atrocious accuracy.

I wonder if they are simply an economical "consumer soldier" for the alien masterminds...

--[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 23:14, 19 August 2008 (PDT)

: Can't fault them there. Most of the aliens in Apoclaypse are mass produced consumer models - the anthropods moreso. Anthropods get away by luck most of the time, and the fact that they eventually get to carry powerful and very accurate weapons makes up for their shortcomings. - [[User:NKF|NKF]] 23:53, 19 August 2008 (PDT)

::But with accuracy ratings under 20 you indeed get only lucky shots from some myopic anthropods.
::Skeletoids are more at-par with humans but I do feel a little sorry for anthropods for being even more flimsy than humans.
::--[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 23:59, 19 August 2008 (PDT)

: Well, they are among the first enemies you meet. Wouldn't want them to be too good. Luck also plays a major factor in your own units' abilities too, so you're pretty much even at the start of the game. As the game progresses, they compensate with better weapons and larger numbers. While you get better weapons and stat increases. By the way, what difficulty level were these anthropods tested on? You might want to see how the beginner level anthropods differ against their superhuman counterparts. - [[User:NKF|NKF]] 00:08, 20 August 2008 (PDT)

::Ah, of course. Please forgive my brainsucked... uh... brain...
::Medium difficulty, whatever the name was. Can only imagine their frailty on beginner...
::--[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 00:29, 20 August 2008 (PDT)

::Hmm... just thought of something: the second alien dimension which wasn't implemented would then be the home to the "masterminds" of the entire invasion? Sudden jump from easy to horrifyingly unfair due to "new anthropods" as tough as megaspawns?
::Also, alien dimension X-COM base...?
::-[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 00:32, 20 August 2008 (PDT)

:::i'd imagine that you'd be facing enemies about as tough as androids with terrifiying new weapons. like the un-implemented super disruptor cannon, only slightly more awesome. they'd also have mightier shields which would grant you new armor if you researched them. and also more powerful unarmed combatents.--[[User:(name here)|(name here)]] 09:35, 20 August 2008 (PDT)

::::A popper with tons of health, two enhanced power swords and an even more powerful chemical coctail inside... with, of course, an inventory for shields... oh, don't forget the teleporter dampening field.

::::Now every mission is a suicide mission.
::::--[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 22:09, 20 August 2008 (PDT)

::::: You forgot the anti-air defense system. though a popper that detonates when killed by disruptors and is immune to toxin would be nasty by itself--[[User:(name here)|(name here)]] 10:03, 21 August 2008 (PDT)

Talk:Megapol Stun Grenade

2008-08-21T02:22:56Z

(name here):

Reasons why stun gas isn't vented to the mission site before a mission:

:1. X-COM agent's would need respirators, which the current armor models do not seem to have, although respirators might be possible to install into helmets, assuming the rest of the armor is atleast partially air-tight

:2. The gas spreads and dissipates quickly outside the building, so aliens could just run outside and seek cover for ambush

:3. Since the gas takes some time to work and is noticably green and therefore easy to spot, aliens can start killing hostages and priming explosives in time as pre-revenge

:4. Some humans might be highly allergic to the gas, going into anaphylactic shock once they breathe the gas

:5. Venting huge amounts of gas into a building causes [[Megapol Stun Grenade|Stun Grenade]] shortages

This is why X-COM has highly-trained combat personel instead of just clean-up crews.

Should this be on the article page?

--[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 22:36, 19 August 2008 (PDT)

: Well, this runs up agains the scale problems in general (the cityscape scale isn't that Mega). Insofar as this actually needs backstory, it may be sufficient that it takes XCOM to actually locate the aliens precisely enough to do anything. -- [[User:Zaimoni|Zaimoni]], 10:56 20 August 2008 (CDT)
:: The point of using stun gas would be that you could just send capture crews in space suits into the building, gather up the stunned aliens, and then ventilate the building. mind, the aliens could just bring down the building with explosives or well-placed vollies in the time it takes for them to keel over. not that they couldn't do that anyways. it may just be a matter of the fact that it takes a long time to flood the building and then un-flood the building, or it may be that it's feared the aliens would begin blowing up all chemical plants in the city if they started getting gassed.

Talk:Anthropod (Apocalypse)

2008-08-20T16:35:45Z

(name here):

Talk:Anthropod (Apocalypse)

2008-08-20T16:35:19Z

(name here):

After a few probings, the stats of anthropods suggest them being physically a little weaker than humans, and a further test confirms this; throwing a [[Devastator Cannon]] is very tough for anthropods.

This makes them pretty pathetic in my opinion, as humans are pretty weak ( in real life ) naturally. Anthropods also have atrocious accuracy.

I wonder if they are simply an economical "consumer soldier" for the alien masterminds...

--[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 23:14, 19 August 2008 (PDT)

: Can't fault them there. Most of the aliens in Apoclaypse are mass produced consumer models - the anthropods moreso. Anthropods get away by luck most of the time, and the fact that they eventually get to carry powerful and very accurate weapons makes up for their shortcomings. - [[User:NKF|NKF]] 23:53, 19 August 2008 (PDT)

::But with accuracy ratings under 20 you indeed get only lucky shots from some myopic anthropods.
::Skeletoids are more at-par with humans but I do feel a little sorry for anthropods for being even more flimsy than humans.
::--[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 23:59, 19 August 2008 (PDT)

: Well, they are among the first enemies you meet. Wouldn't want them to be too good. Luck also plays a major factor in your own units' abilities too, so you're pretty much even at the start of the game. As the game progresses, they compensate with better weapons and larger numbers. While you get better weapons and stat increases. By the way, what difficulty level were these anthropods tested on? You might want to see how the beginner level anthropods differ against their superhuman counterparts. - [[User:NKF|NKF]] 00:08, 20 August 2008 (PDT)

::Ah, of course. Please forgive my brainsucked... uh... brain...
::Medium difficulty, whatever the name was. Can only imagine their frailty on beginner...
::--[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 00:29, 20 August 2008 (PDT)

::Hmm... just thought of something: the second alien dimension which wasn't implemented would then be the home to the "masterminds" of the entire invasion? Sudden jump from easy to horrifyingly unfair due to "new anthropods" as tough as megaspawns?
::Also, alien dimension X-COM base...?
::-[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 00:32, 20 August 2008 (PDT)

i'd imagine that you'd be facing enemies about as tough as androids with terrifiying new weapons. like the un-implemented super disruptor cannon, only slightly more awesome. they'd also have mightier shields which would grant you new armor if you researched them. and also more powerful unarmed combatents.

Talk:Overspawn (Apocalypse)

2008-08-18T14:01:57Z

(name here):

The overspawn seems to be a vehicle, if you look at the hostile VEHICLES pane when one is released. If it were a UFO, it could basicly be recoverable once badly enough damaged? Unnamed vehicle...?

Otherwise I can only think of a special weapon or desperate agents on the ground with stun grapples trying to avoid being stomped all night...

--[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 04:17, 18 August 2008 (PDT)

: The Overspawn is definitely implemented as a vehicle in the game. Through a little game editing trickery with XED, you can gain control of one. In fact, it has hardpoints that mimic the Annihilator, although the shape of its option space differ somewhat (it's wide, but roughly the same amount of space). It has a few weird controls when you try to manually control it. It has an automatic wander command that kicks in every so often where it'll wander randomly in either four compass directions and crush anything in its way. This always happens no matter what control mode you're in. Oddly enough, this attack is treated as an alien attack. If you try to use the home/end/pgup/pgdn keys, things get weird. Usually they'll crash the game, or maybe make the overspawn destroy whatever building it's standing next to and teleport it to the other side of the building (as if it charge dthrough building?). Basically it's just another incomplete part of the game. I'm guessing if there was a play-as-aliens portion to the game, you'd probably get control one of these big guys. - [[User:NKF|NKF]] 05:42, 18 August 2008 (PDT)

::Whoa... play as the aliens? Sounds cool and incredibly frustrating at the same time ( presuming automated X-COM is atleast somewhat effective ). Too bad that didn't make it into the game.

::Still, I'd hate to competely level such an attractive city. ( Yes, I love Mega Primus looks )

::--[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 06:18, 18 August 2008 (PDT)
::: I'm guessing it was set up to act uncontrolled because you might get to run it when you went to the next alien diminsion that was planned but not implemented.--[[User:(name here)|(name here)]] 07:01, 18 August 2008 (PDT)

Mega-Primus

2008-07-05T02:46:32Z

(name here): mentioned the people tube "issue"

= A Tourist's Guide To Megaprimus =

Our Greetings to you, Visitor:

The City which you are about to enter, Mega Primus, is the primary Bastion of Mankind after emerging victorious from three seemingly hopeless wars against a despicable race of gene-manipulating, sinister Alien Empire. Yet hope survives, and mercy flourishes in its wake as well. We have extended our mercy and friendship to those who chose to side with us, and as you see, you will encounter these integrated citizens resembling Sectoids of the First Alien War.

The city features the finest technology and comfort throughout the Sol System, salvaged from the ancient Alien Empire who also seems to have begotten Our species, and the treacherous alien pirates who misused and looted their ruins to wage war on Us. The result is that We are finally sitting on the zenith of our history, seeing the entire contents of Our mysterious past in the blink of an eye. We travel around floating on the efficient and safe People Tubes. With the courtesy of the Transtellar corporation, who profit profoundly from the bountiful trading routes of our home, we revel in our Nanotechnological luxuries and Sensovision, students let school information flow into their minds freely and without effort, all adapted from the psychic coding and nanotech-construction technology of our enemies, we can even fly on hover vehicles we could not have dreamt of 40 years before! Obviously, Earth-born technology was insufficent to apply mass-hover project, so We justly claimed it from the filth who dared touch our blood and earth. And Our thanks go to the glorious soldiers of X-Com, men and women of legends unmatched even in Our dank and filthy Middle Ages. Men and Women who rose amongst the pile of skulls of the dead, Men and Women who carried the Illuminating light of Freedom, Justice and Equality to the masses, Enlightening Us through war, deceit, and heroism.

We do not wish to bore you with Our glorious history, as the Space Liner approaches the Space Port, and a massive Jungle of grass, glass and gleaming metal with its limitless bounties, pleasures and power awaits you.

Once again, Welcome!

The Thirteen Most Enlightened Senators of Mega-Primus of ''Novus Ordo Seclorum''

== Trade ==

Various Corporations have their industries in monopoly, and thus make humongous profits surpassing the power of the Government. Mega-Primus industry produces extremely high-quality products and exports them in high prices, whereas cheaply buying elerium from mining colonies of Mars, the Asteroid Belt and even the far-away Frontier, and exploiting them doubly by selling expensive materials, an Imperialist's finest dream-city.

== Firms, Companies, Collectives ==

Mega-Primus, formerly known as Toronto, is a completely self-sustaining, locked entity, and probably the only completely safe place on Earth in the wake of the destruction of T'leth. Nothing is wasted here. Every piece of scrap, every waste product is recycled and put back to good use. Of course, there is a trade with colonies on Mars and beyond, where Mega-Primus sells high quality goods in exchange for raw materials and Elerium.

Most of the city is maintained by various corporations and organizations. A good X-COM commander should familiarize himself with these entities, as they, unlike the general populace, are well aware of X-COM's presence in the city, and aren't held back by laws or moral obligations. It is possible to have both friends and foes among denizens of the city - but it is impossible to keep up good relations with everyone. However, all of them must be watched for signs of alien infiltration - and some are more susceptible to it than others.

Below is a list of these corporations, along with short descriptions and suggestions.

* Aliens

Not an organization per se, the new Alien threat to the city is vastly different from what we have faced before. They are once again technologically superior to us. They've been proven aggressive when their infiltration attempts were discovered, and as such X-COM is allowed to and is obligated to eliminate this new threat by any means neccessary.

* Cult of Sirius

A cult of Alien-worshipping freaks, these zealots have built up a surprisingly strong presence in the city. While the size and power of the Cult has apparently diminished since 2040s, they are still hostile to X-COM, and have reportedly amassed a small army, as well as a stockpile of top-notch weaponry in the city to assist their Alien "friends" in their nefarious deeds. Raiding their temples can both cripple their influence and provide X-COM with nice equipment.

* Cyberweb
* Diablo

A fanatical and violent gang with a base of operations in the slums outside the city limits. They've pioneered the use of crude yet efficient incendiary grenades, and are feuding with Psyke. Their trust is however easy to earn by attacking Psyke.

* Energen
* Evonet
* Extropians
* General Metro

General Metro is the manufacturer of the engines for city's road vehicles, as well as Fusion PowerFuel. Obviously, it's a good idea to have them as friends, else your mighty fleets will turn into scrap metal.

* Government

While it may seem somewhat odd and shadowy to us, the Government is still the highest authority in the city. Protecting it from Alien inflitration and attacks is a top priority for us. The Government maintains hope that X-COM will be able to deal with the alien threat quietly and before the next election, and as such given it powers comparable to that of Megapol. However, abusing those powers is highly unrecommended, as Government will also be X-COM's primary sponsor - and any questionable actions will reduce the size of that paycheck at the end of the week.

* Grav Ball League
* Lifetree
* Marsec

A megacorporation that stretches from Earth to the Frontier, MARs SECurity is a powerful manufacturer of the best of today's military equipment. Although they have some competition in the inferior-but-cheaper Megapol products, Marsec still outweighs its competitor by holding virtual monopoly on powerful combat vehicles, plasma, psionic and heavy weaponry, as well as Elerium-powered flying armor. It is a very bad idea to mess with Marsec.

* Megapol

MEGA-Primus POLice is more than just a security force. It is also a goverment-sponsored arms manufacturer. Megapol makes its own equipment and vehicles, and sustains itself by exporting some of it. Megapol has its hands full with the rampant crime syndicates in the city, and as such is able to provide only token support to X-COM, however Megapol patrol vehicles won't hesitate to assist X-COM in dealing with the alien ships. Megapol's market presence includes laser weaponry, heavy body armor, grenades and small arms. Megapol stations are extremely well-defended and the police troops are well-trained and heavily armed, so getting into their bad books will probably be mean the end of X-COM.

* Mutant Alliance

A semi-legal political entity that is fighting against the prejudice against the human/sectoid hybrids, relics from the First Alien War. Supporting the Mutant Alliance can bring X-COM psionically gifted recruits.

* Nanotech
* Nutrivend
* Osiron

The wealthiest crime syndicate in the city, Osiron is something in between a gang and a legitimate corporation. Osiron is significantly better equipped and organized that other criminal organizations, and can be a formidable opponent.

* Psyke

A declining criminal gang, Psyke is still a major thorn in Government's side due to their development of illegal, addictive and highly dangerous Psiclone implant. They are at constant war with Diablo, and attacking one will win you friendship of another. And you didn't see it here, but psiclones are worth quite a lot on the black market...

* S.E.L.F.

The Sentient Engine Liberation Front is a political entity, much alike to the Mutant Alliance, which fights for the rights of the outlawed androids. Androids can be highly efficient shock troops, so good relations with S.E.L.F. are a huge bonus.
* Sanctuary Clinic
* Sensovision
* Solmine
* Superdynamics

Superdynamics is an engine manufacturer, specializing in engines for flyers. Since flyers get to see most of the action, it would be wise to outfit them with the best stuff there is - a reason enough to try to keep Superdynamics friendly.
* Synthemesh
* Technocrats
* Transtellar

An interstellar shipping corporation. Don't let their space liners fool you - they also have the monopoly on all transport inside the city. Transtellar is very susceptible to Alien infiltration (according to Megapol), and is very nervous about any military activity in its borders. They are also VERY touchy about damage to the people tubes. You know, the ones that come crashing to the ground every time their is a battle in city limits. It will probably be the hardest corporation to keep happy, but not doing so can cripple X-COM's market activity - and that equals bankruptcy.

* X-Com

That's us. A shadowy paramilitary organization that in the breaks between taking over the city should also try to chase off the aliens.

== Base Locations ==

The Government offers X-Com discreet locations such as abandoned warehouses and slums, and provided the base is in latter location, it is unlikely that the base is going to be attacked by Alien forces easily (Although the structural integrity of these badly undermaintained structures is very questionable).

The bases have preset corridors, and facilities can be constructed into these empty spaces, and it is forbidden to fund additional excavations.

When needed, the Government can be contacted to give an additional base, provided the funds are at your disposal.

The newest development in base facilities are base defenses: Security Stations, riddled with plasma turrets. A few of those at important chokepoints will be enough to cripple any assault on your base, Alien or human alike.

Talk:Battleship

2008-07-02T19:34:45Z

(name here):

== Ground assault on a battleship ==

I've had good luck attacking a battle ship by the "reaction wall" technique. This is where a large number of soldiers line up in sight/fire range of the exit door, but do NOT enter.

This is all about reaction fire. As soon as the door opens, your units will open fire on any alien.

This works fine ''as long as the doors close every turn''. As soon as something blocks the door, '''abort'''.

If a door panel is destroyed, or if something large blocks the door open, then a blaster bomb can come out and clobber your team. Suddenly, your setup is no longer secure.

This does rely on your team not being mind controlled. That works as long as no one can be seen by the enemy -- make sure you have "swept" any outside aliens before you go for the seige -- or that you are not facing sectoids/etherials.
--[[User:Keybounce|Keybounce]] 16:02, 6 January 2007 (PST)

: I do this a lot. I use up to six soldiers, splitting them into three for each entry point. Each soldier crouches against one of the battleship struts and the third soldier crouches between the pair. The middle soldier is sometimes replaced with a laser HWP. There isn't much room, so all three units should be spaced far apart but within visibile range of the door. This reduces area effect weapon mishaps. Other soldiers spend the rest of the mission sweeping the battlefield for stragglers.

: Sometimes I have a soldier or two stand right up against the entryway's blind sides. This allows them to rescue anything useful, to burst into the lift and gun down any blaster launcher toting aliens that were spotted but did not leave the lift, or to shoot at or capture any alien that has ended its turn outside the lift (but facing the nearest fireteam).

:It's a valid strategy, but as usual, alien grenades and blaster launchers can mess up even the best laid plans. -[[User:NKF|NKF]]

:: Combining the Reaction Wall with cyberdisks is one of theose things i KNOW cannot be healthy.

== Commanders on battleships ==

Aren't alien commanders on every type of battleship? As well as X-COM base defence missions? In fact, I feel like I often see two commanders on ships/base assaults/invasions.--[[User:Ethereal Cereal|Ethereal Cereal]] 15:18, 10 March 2007 (PST)
: Well obviously [[Muton]]s don't have commanders (or leaders) on their Battleships, but I think there is usually 1 for the other races --[[User:Pi Masta|Pi Masta]] 15:50, 10 March 2007 (PST)

UFO Ground Assault

2008-07-01T22:50:33Z

(name here):

==Briefing==
Explore the landing site and, if possible, gain entry to the UFO. The mission will be successful when all enemy units have been eliminated or neutralised. Recovery of UFO, artefacts and alien corpses can then be initiated.

==Breaching UFOs==
Most of a UFO ground assault is like any other mission. Use smoke grenades to disembark; illuminate the exterior in night missions with flares or fires; and use fire team tactics for [[Sweeping the Battlescape]]. The moment of entry into the UFO can be a unique challenge, however, as the first soldier inside a UFO strongroom is often a guaranteed casualty. Several measures can be taken to reduce the agony of this crucial (and sometimes climactic) phase of the battle.

'''1. Rookies ("puppets") first.''' It never hurts to deliberately take a few rookies or underachievers to absorb enemy reaction shots and/or psionic attacks. (You end up with a lot more Sergeants as these guys are rotated in and out of the Skyranger.) One of these should be sent first through UFO doors.

'''2. Cover the point.''' Have the rest of his fire team positioned a few squares behind with plenty of TUs to fire over his shoulder. They may be able to throw explosives (or even smoke) into the room, or even shoot all the aliens inside. They risk shooting the point (the rookie who entered the door), but the aliens are more likely to do that if you don't kill them all first. Any TUs the rookie uses to kneel, escape, or fire may get him shot. The aliens will have a harder time returning fire against shots over his shoulder (hitting the UFO wall etc). ''Save the point soldier's TUs until after the rest of the team has used all of theirs.'' Remember to NOT ''throw'' explosives until AFTER you have ''fired'' explosives.

'''3a. BANZAI!!''' (Note: Without the right equipment, this can be considered a "sacrificial rookie" tactic; but with the right equipment the rookie stands a good chance of survival. Consider a [[Power Suit]] and an [[Auto Cannon]] with explosive ammunition for for this purpose, at least for the frontline rookies.)

The point may have to take one for the team. The worst case scenario is that the entire team misses the aliens, the aliens kill the point, and then come out to shoot the team (who burned all their TUs up covering the point). Even if the point tries to retreat, he may be shot, and if he is using a rifle-type weapon, he may still get shot after killing one alien. The solution is to use whatever explosives he is carrying to kill as many aliens inside as possible before dying, or upon death. Sufficient armor will allow him to do this with minimal personal risk.

Do this AFTER the team has tried and failed to clear the room. If he is carrying a grenade, prime it and, if for some reason he can't toss it (usually because he spent 8-14 TUs getting to and through the door) move him as far toward the group of aliens as possible. In a small room, he will be in their midst by the time they shoot him. If they don't kill him, and he has 2 TUs left, he can drop the primed grenade. This also works with smoke if the aliens are far enough away. If he is using rockets or explosive ammunition, fire at point blank range and blast everything in the room (preferably targeting the rear wall or alien). If he is wearing a power or flying suit, then ordinary grenades, AC-HE, and HC-HE ammunition will be nearly harmless. The edge of a rocket blast is also much less dangerous in armor. He or someone behind him may be able to bombard the room with minimal risk. Of course, in a small UFO the power source and elerium may be nearby, so the use of extreme measures to clear the room in one turn may be at the expense of valuable resources. Another option is the [[Small Launcher]], but the point has no defense against [[Stun Bomb]]s. (see also #3b below)

'''3b. Shoot the rookie (gently).''' Send one rookie, wearing any armor, through the door. If he survives (which he often does, thanks to the mutual surprise rule), he can safely turn around to spot any aliens, as turning does not provoke [[Reaction fire triggers|Reaction fire]]. Unfortunately, taking any other action will likely prove fatal. So shoot him - with a [[Stun Bomb]]. With any luck, he'll drop to the floor, [[Unconscious]] - but alive (as long as he wasn't carrying a live grenade). Snipers can then shoot through the door at spotted aliens, from outside their sight range. This tactic works quite well when assaulting a [[Large Scout]] with destroyed interior; firing a large rocket through the open door and into the back wall has a good chance of killing the aliens who tend to lurk in that area.

The rookie could also carry a primed [[Smoke Grenade]]. This will go off after the rookie drops (for whatever reason), providing cover for the next soldier through the door.

Another soldier can pick him up and/or revive him after the room is secured. Be careful with explosives until then, as it is very easy to kill an unconscious soldier in any armor.

'''Alternate Strategy: Ambush (The old Stand-by).''' Depending on your soldiers' [[Reactions]] and [[TU|Time Units]], you may be able to form a firing line outside of dangerous rooms to wait for the aliens to emerge. On Superhuman difficulty, simply waiting outside a door may not prevent the emerging aliens from getting the first shot. You may need to force them to move out further, depleting TUs and ending up with less [[Reaction fire formula|Initiative]] when they sight your soldiers. This can be accomplished by waiting around a nearby corner or by deploying a Smoke Grenade in front of the door with several squares' distance between the door and your firing line. Most of the aliens will pile out by Turn 20 or 21, but often a command crew will remain inside larger UFOs, and you still might employ the above tactics to finish the mission.

Also, beware of Blaster Bombs when setting up an ambush. If there is a clear path to a blaster-wielding Commander or Engineer (on battleships and base missions) it will blast the ambush team almost invariably. This is not a problem on all other UFOs (those not carrying blaster troopers). [[Terror Units]] also pose a threat to ambush teams due to their typically high armor and TUs. For these reasons, ambushes on missions associated with Terror Ships and Battleships should be carefully planned.

'''Supplemental Measure: Make a new hole.''' A second entry in a UFO exterior created by a [[Blaster Bomb]] (or [[Heavy Plasma]] for interior walls) is generally safer than a pre-existing door. The aliens are usually paying attention to the UFO doors instead; they only gang up around the new holes if they see you coming.

'''Note:''' Proximity grenades may occasionally kill the aliens inside when one steps out, but this isn't always the case, and proximity grenades have other limitations (especially deep inside big UFOs).

== Specific UFO tactics ==

''' Small Scout '''

If the alien is in the UFO, toss a grenade up the grav shaft or shoot up the shaft.

'''Medium Scout'''

This UFO is hard to storm. if you can afford to lose elerium, have a grenade carrying rookie enter first, or smash it open with a blaster bomb, then grenade the inside.

An Ambush stratagy can work well.

''' Large Scout '''

This is also hard to storm, as the grenade stratagy does not work, then you have to kill/stun the navigators by rushing the command center, THEN kill the engineer in the elerium chamber.

''' Havester '''

this ship has a weird layout, and is a total mess to storm without heavy plasmas and/or flying suits. if you have flying suits, enter the eastern door, then clear the ground floor, then fly up to clear the remainder of the craft.

''' Abductor '''

Finally, one which is not quite so problematic to storm. enter through the door, slaughter any alien in the entryway, then rush the next room. either burn through the roof and kill the commanders (recommended) or work your way over to the grav lift, move up a floor, and then kill the command crew. (only do this if you lack heavy plasmas) either way, the command team is dead, and you just have to clean up the surviving, paniced crew.

''' Supply Ship '''

mount a 2-pronged assualt through both enterences, and blow your way in through the third floor walls to kill the command crew. the back of the first floor is suprisingly a common source of deaths for whatever reason, and the second floor is excellent for alien last stands, because of the compact quarters.

''' Terror Ship '''

this ship has the advantage that you can use HWPs to get your troops in, but they also have a terror unit ambush spot at each side. There is an open spot where terror units ( like chyrssilaids) like to jump down from. Fortunatly, they also have a bridge with an exposed diagonal wall. send in two blaster bombs and all the navigators, leaders, medics, and some of the engineers are dead. follow up with flying suits while sending land-bound troops in on the bottom floor after your tanks.

''' Battleship '''

The battleship is easy to enter, but filled with ambush spots. As usual, make a hole and kill the command crew. They tend to be in a defensive position covering the top-floor grav lift, so suprise and maybe stun them. meanwhile, send a tank up to the second floor. then sweep the ship, and blow a hole in the tiny room on the second floor.

== Assaulting Supply Ships with JFG ==
After staking out a [[Floater]] base and getting a recovery craft set up, I was hijacking a [[Supply Ship]] every week for a month, and be darned if I wasn't starting to follow a pattern. I had a modified Firestorm stalking them, with 6 soldiers and a HWP. After clearing the outside and sniping a few at the exit, I'd breach with a team of 3 at each door. Clear the one or two aliens usually at the grav lifts, quickly peek into the engine room in passing (150 units of intact [[Elerium-115]] waiting, sweet); send one guy straight to the top floor to hide by the door, while the other two on his team go halfway up and bust open the shaft with plasma rounds. Five guys sweep the middle deck. Usually the floaters are starting to panic by now. Then all six troops re-converge on the lift, head for the upper deck, and advance on the control room. First guy out of the lift turns right, the second turns left, checks the corner, then turns to stand next to the closed door to the south, third advances past second guy to snipe towards control room, and the fourth (if time) enters the closed door to the south. Then it's just a matter of leap-frogging most of the team up the north corridor towards the control room with overwatch while one or two do a quick sweep of the narrow south corridor, perhaps opening a shortcut across the waist of the ship with heavy plasma along the way.

Occasionally I'd vary this routine by hitting the floor of the control room from below with HE-HC or stun rounds, but that could be considered cheating. But not as [[Exploits|exploitative]] as the time I shoved a brick of HE up through the floor of the control room. A quick way to end the mission. Also fun is tossing HE or alien grenades into the diagonal walls at the back of the ship, near the lifts, from outside, with a long delay; if timed right, this kills anyone near the lifts inside just before the breaching team gets there. In mountain terrain, this might even destroy the outer wall at the waist of the ship! Easy lift access if I had stuck around!

And all that procedure comes from harsh experience, like the time I forgot to check the corner after coming out of the top level lift and was shot in the back.

And it got me a sectoid leader for [[Psionics]], too, once I had identified my weakest link and given him a standard pistol and smoke grenades. The decoy was being alternately panicked and controlled somewhere out in the forest right up until the powersuits kicked in the control room door and hit the preoccupied leader with stun rounds at point blank range. Previously, every attempted sectoid supply ship hijacking or sectoid base raid had been a psi-attacked disaster.

--[[User:JellyfishGreen|JellyfishGreen]] 14:26, 23 May 2005 (BST)

''Note: This was on Normal difficulty. At Superhuman difficulty, there's a few more aliens around, and it becomes wiser to stand in the lift (since aliens don't shoot down well) than to hide by the door. --[[User:JellyfishGreen|JellyfishGreen]] 01:35, 26 Sep 2005 (PDT)''

== Notes ==
* In the above example "I had a modified Firestorm stalking them, with 6 soldiers and a HWP" indicates a modified game using XcomUtil. In an unmodified game this is just an interception craft.
* If you want Elerium, don't use explosives near the power cores.
* If you have stunned a 'soldier' class and don't want it, relocate it and grenade it, or use medikits to awaken then shoot.
* If you assault craft that are landed you will get more things to sell, but there may be more aliens to shoot your head off.

''For medium-sized and larger UFO's in the later game, your best friends are some flying suits and a [[Blaster Launcher|blaster bomb]]. Use the blaster to make a hole in the topmost level of the craft--only blasters can pierce the outer walls of UFOs. Then send in your flying units. This will let you take out the alien leader sooner-- which I believe adversely effects the morales of the enemy-- and lets you attack from an unexpected angle.''

''In general, it's best to make new doors inside a UFO than use the existing ones, since the aliens have a tougher time setting up ambushes that way. Use heavy plasma to shoot open internal walls (see [[Destroying Terrain]]).''
--[[User:Papa Legba|Papa Legba]] 13:09, 22 Nov 2005 (PST)

''If you feel like you absolutely must use a lot of explosives, you can save the elerium by shooting the power source (with a non explosive weapon), and then picking up the elerium crystal in the inventory. I don't find it worth the time to do, but if you must use explosives then it's better than losing 50 elerium''
~~ [[User:Blehm|Blehm]]

==See Also==
[[UFO Crash Recovery]]

[[Category:Missions]]
[[Category: Tactics]]

Engaging the Enemy (Apocalypse)

2008-07-01T22:43:39Z

(name here):

when entering the battlescape, it is always best to use real time, except when going for a capture. the tactics you employ may vary widly depending on who you face, but are vastly diffrent from those employed in the first two games. this is divided into early, middle, and late game vs. both aliens and other humans

==The diffrence==
the main diffrence is in the avaliblity of armor in the early game. Megapol and even Marsec armor is nearly immune to early-game weaponry, a far cry from the instant death plasma of the first game. only hyperworms can easily penetrate armor until the boomeriod is deployed.

==early game: aliens==
At first, your only worries are multiworms and brainsuckers, though spitters are dangerous in large numbers. multiworms themselves are not dangerous, but it's hard to kill them at range and hyperworms are death in melee. use autocannon and machine guns, preferably two weapons per trooper. upgrade to plasma guns as soon as you can. grenades are only slightly effective, as they are often unable to kill in a single hit or noticeably weaken enemies. stun gas, however, is pretty useful for captures and beating multiworms. Rocket launchers have a tendency to hit your troops at times, so it's best to not rely on them.
==early game: humans==
This varies widely, as the diffrent groups are armed diffrently, but what you really have to worry about are cultists, gang members, marsec troops, and megapol, as these are the most dangerous.

Cultists wear megapol armor, and have autocannons, grenades, plasma guns, rocket launchers, and bascially everything megapol sells.

Gang members are equipped with a wide array of guns, though plasma guns are somewhat rare. diablo members are equipped with incindary grenades on occasion.

Marsec troops have marsec gear.

megapol troops have megapol's inventory of leathal weaponry.

In all cases your main advantage is that you can employ grenades frequently. explosive autocannon fire is also of great value, as your enemies tend to clump. target rocket launchers first, then shoot whoever is shooting at you. inflict maximum collateral damage, as a bankrupt foe can't counterattack.

==mid game: aliens==
when you pass 1000 points, things take a change for the lethal. the antropods are now the prime target, behind only charging brainsuckers in threat. claiming disruptor guns slightly evens the odds, but your armor advantage is wiped away. skeletiods appear, and the nightmare of storming UFOs is not much changed from the other two games. when boomeriods appear, things get even worse. gladly, the non-armed aliens are now easy meat for disruptor guns. eventually the devestator cannon is deployed, proving lethal to armored andrioids in two shoots at times. begin phasing out human weaponry as fast as possible. keep your troops far apart when you can.
==mid game: humans==

this is much easier, as you are now equipped with the most lethal weaponry. in almost any battle, X-com troops will shred any resistance. you must still beware rocket launchers and plasma guns.

==Late game: humans==

By this point, humans will usually be complete pushovers. Protected by X-Com disruptor armor and personal shields, even taking direct hits from rocket launchers will do little to slow your agents down, and with evistator cannons and dimension missile launchers, you'll make short work of whatever human enemies try to take you out.

==Storming UFOs==
This can be tough, even early on. Early in the game, you'll start facing your first manned alien craft: transports and fast attack ships. Most of these follow the same basic design, a central gravity lift with the ship's control center on the upper floor. Generally, if the aliens haven't left the craft yet, you'll run into a few of them as soon as you enter the ship's hallway. Be careful not to get bunched up entering or a well-placed boomeroid can cause some serious harm to your troops.

Eventually, you'll want to secure the bottom of the lift, then move upward to the control center. One useful technique, if you can pull off the throw, is to lob a smoke or gas grenade up onto the upper floor from below. Smoke will help you move your agents into position without coming under fire, while gas grenades will ensure that there are no aliens (especially brainsuckers) lying in wait right at the top of the lift.

Once you enter the control room, be prepared for a fight. Unless you were met by a large number of alien attackers in the entryway, the bulk of the ship's crew is likely to be up on this level, and most of the time they're entrenched behind barricades or up on elevated catwalks, giving them a tactical advantage. Making use of gas grenades here to flush aliens out of their cover can greatly improve your odds of coming away without casualties.

It's important not to get complacent. Even late in the game, when you're wearing the best armor and toting devistators and shields, alien incursions in buildings can seem like cake, but UFO crews will almost always be as well-armed as you are and will have the tactical advantage in many cases.

==tactics for human buildings==

'''Corperate Headquarters'''

the corperate headquaters is almost the closest thing you'll get to an open-field battle in any of the maps in megaprimus. be glad, because it's also the alien's prefered target. it has three different layouts. first and most common is a single soild building with a large lobby, with a grav-lift and a horde of aliens in it. enter the lobby with all your troops at once and gun down the aliens inside. other aliens will swarm down the gravlift and out the nearby doors, so most aliens will be involved. after that, hunt the rest down with squads of troops. they prefer hiding upstairs. second, there's a pathway with small towers lining it. most aliens will emerge onto the pathway and can be cut down by mass fire. again, hunt down the survivors in the towers afterwards. third, there is a sprawling building with numerous entry points. sadly, there is no where the aliens will reliably swarm towards when you open fire in the area.

'''Slum'''

The slum is either an obstructed field, a brutal room to room hunt for aliens in some large buildings, another obstructed field with small buildings, or a building wrapped around a clear area, which you need to get cleared of enemies while dealing with enemies on the balconies. The building missions tend to have some mostly empty levels and some levels filled with enemies. the field missions... you remember the farm and forest terran from X-com1? kinda like that, with more trees.

'''Apartments'''

These are all small rooms with open squares and long hallways. ideal for being ambushed and seperated. in other words, these suck.

UFO Ground Assault

2008-07-01T22:29:31Z

(name here): general overveiw of the UFOs and specific tactics.

==Briefing==
Explore the landing site and, if possible, gain entry to the UFO. The mission will be successful when all enemy units have been eliminated or neutralised. Recovery of UFO, artefacts and alien corpses can then be initiated.

==Breaching UFOs==
Most of a UFO ground assault is like any other mission. Use smoke grenades to disembark; illuminate the exterior in night missions with flares or fires; and use fire team tactics for [[Sweeping the Battlescape]]. The moment of entry into the UFO can be a unique challenge, however, as the first soldier inside a UFO strongroom is often a guaranteed casualty. Several measures can be taken to reduce the agony of this crucial (and sometimes climactic) phase of the battle.

'''1. Rookies ("puppets") first.''' It never hurts to deliberately take a few rookies or underachievers to absorb enemy reaction shots and/or psionic attacks. (You end up with a lot more Sergeants as these guys are rotated in and out of the Skyranger.) One of these should be sent first through UFO doors.

'''2. Cover the point.''' Have the rest of his fire team positioned a few squares behind with plenty of TUs to fire over his shoulder. They may be able to throw explosives (or even smoke) into the room, or even shoot all the aliens inside. They risk shooting the point (the rookie who entered the door), but the aliens are more likely to do that if you don't kill them all first. Any TUs the rookie uses to kneel, escape, or fire may get him shot. The aliens will have a harder time returning fire against shots over his shoulder (hitting the UFO wall etc). ''Save the point soldier's TUs until after the rest of the team has used all of theirs.'' Remember to NOT ''throw'' explosives until AFTER you have ''fired'' explosives.

'''3a. BANZAI!!''' (Note: Without the right equipment, this can be considered a "sacrificial rookie" tactic; but with the right equipment the rookie stands a good chance of survival. Consider a [[Power Suit]] and an [[Auto Cannon]] with explosive ammunition for for this purpose, at least for the frontline rookies.)

The point may have to take one for the team. The worst case scenario is that the entire team misses the aliens, the aliens kill the point, and then come out to shoot the team (who burned all their TUs up covering the point). Even if the point tries to retreat, he may be shot, and if he is using a rifle-type weapon, he may still get shot after killing one alien. The solution is to use whatever explosives he is carrying to kill as many aliens inside as possible before dying, or upon death. Sufficient armor will allow him to do this with minimal personal risk.

Do this AFTER the team has tried and failed to clear the room. If he is carrying a grenade, prime it and, if for some reason he can't toss it (usually because he spent 8-14 TUs getting to and through the door) move him as far toward the group of aliens as possible. In a small room, he will be in their midst by the time they shoot him. If they don't kill him, and he has 2 TUs left, he can drop the primed grenade. This also works with smoke if the aliens are far enough away. If he is using rockets or explosive ammunition, fire at point blank range and blast everything in the room (preferably targeting the rear wall or alien). If he is wearing a power or flying suit, then ordinary grenades, AC-HE, and HC-HE ammunition will be nearly harmless. The edge of a rocket blast is also much less dangerous in armor. He or someone behind him may be able to bombard the room with minimal risk. Of course, in a small UFO the power source and elerium may be nearby, so the use of extreme measures to clear the room in one turn may be at the expense of valuable resources. Another option is the [[Small Launcher]], but the point has no defense against [[Stun Bomb]]s. (see also #3b below)

'''3b. Shoot the rookie (gently).''' Send one rookie, wearing any armor, through the door. If he survives (which he often does, thanks to the mutual surprise rule), he can safely turn around to spot any aliens, as turning does not provoke [[Reaction fire triggers|Reaction fire]]. Unfortunately, taking any other action will likely prove fatal. So shoot him - with a [[Stun Bomb]]. With any luck, he'll drop to the floor, [[Unconscious]] - but alive (as long as he wasn't carrying a live grenade). Snipers can then shoot through the door at spotted aliens, from outside their sight range. This tactic works quite well when assaulting a [[Large Scout]] with destroyed interior; firing a large rocket through the open door and into the back wall has a good chance of killing the aliens who tend to lurk in that area.

The rookie could also carry a primed [[Smoke Grenade]]. This will go off after the rookie drops (for whatever reason), providing cover for the next soldier through the door.

Another soldier can pick him up and/or revive him after the room is secured. Be careful with explosives until then, as it is very easy to kill an unconscious soldier in any armor.

'''Alternate Strategy: Ambush (The old Stand-by).''' Depending on your soldiers' [[Reactions]] and [[TU|Time Units]], you may be able to form a firing line outside of dangerous rooms to wait for the aliens to emerge. On Superhuman difficulty, simply waiting outside a door may not prevent the emerging aliens from getting the first shot. You may need to force them to move out further, depleting TUs and ending up with less [[Reaction fire formula|Initiative]] when they sight your soldiers. This can be accomplished by waiting around a nearby corner or by deploying a Smoke Grenade in front of the door with several squares' distance between the door and your firing line. Most of the aliens will pile out by Turn 20 or 21, but often a command crew will remain inside larger UFOs, and you still might employ the above tactics to finish the mission.

Also, beware of Blaster Bombs when setting up an ambush. If there is a clear path to a blaster-wielding Commander or Engineer (on battleships and base missions) it will blast the ambush team almost invariably. This is not a problem on all other UFOs (those not carrying blaster troopers). [[Terror Units]] also pose a threat to ambush teams due to their typically high armor and TUs. For these reasons, ambushes on missions associated with Terror Ships and Battleships should be carefully planned.

'''Supplemental Measure: Make a new hole.''' A second entry in a UFO exterior created by a [[Blaster Bomb]] (or [[Heavy Plasma]] for interior walls) is generally safer than a pre-existing door. The aliens are usually paying attention to the UFO doors instead; they only gang up around the new holes if they see you coming.

'''Note:''' Proximity grenades may occasionally kill the aliens inside when one steps out, but this isn't always the case, and proximity grenades have other limitations (especially deep inside big UFOs).

== Specific UFO tactics ==

''' Small Scout '''

If the alien is in the UFO, toss a grenade up the grav shaft or shoot up the shaft.

'''Medium Scout'''

This UFO is hard to storm. if you can afford to lose elerium, have a grenade carrying rookie enter first, or smash it open with a blaster bomb, then grenade the inside.

An Ambush stratagy can work well.

''' Large Scout '''

This is also hard to storm, as the grenade stratagy does not work, then you have to kill/stun the navigators by rushing the command center, THEN kill the engineer in the elerium chamber.

''' Havester '''

this ship has a weird layout, and is a total mess to storm without heavy plasmas and/or flying suits. if you have flying suits, enter the eastern door, then clear the ground floor, then fly up to clear the remainder of the craft.

''' Abductor '''

Finally, one which is not quite so problematic to storm. enter through the door, slaughter any alien in the entryway, then rush the next room. either burn through the roof and kill the commanders (recommended) or work your way over to the grav lift, move up a floor, and then kill the command crew. (only do this if you lack heavy plasmas) either way, the command team is dead, and you just have to clean up the surviving, paniced crew.

''' Supply Ship '''

mount a 2-pronged assualt through both enterences, and blow your way in through the third floor walls to kill the command crew. the back of the first floor is suprisingly a common source of deaths for whatever reason, and the second floor is excellent for alien last stands, because of the compact quarters.

''' Terror Ship '''

this ship has the advantage that you can use HWPs to get your troops in, but they also have a terror unit ambush spot at each side. There is an open spot where small terror units ( like chyrssilaids) like to jump down from. Fortunatly, they also have a bridge with an exposed diagonal wall. send in two blaster bombs and all the navigators, leaders, medics, and some of the engineers are dead. follow up with flying suits while sending land-bound troops in on the bottom floor after your tanks.

''' Battleship '''

The battleship is easy to enter, but filled with ambush spots. As usual, make a hole and kill the command crew. They tend to be in a defensive position covering the top-floor grav lift, so suprise and maybe stun them. meanwhile, send a tank up to the second floor. then sweep the ship, and blow a hole in the tiny room on the second floor.

== Assaulting Supply Ships with JFG ==
After staking out a [[Floater]] base and getting a recovery craft set up, I was hijacking a [[Supply Ship]] every week for a month, and be darned if I wasn't starting to follow a pattern. I had a modified Firestorm stalking them, with 6 soldiers and a HWP. After clearing the outside and sniping a few at the exit, I'd breach with a team of 3 at each door. Clear the one or two aliens usually at the grav lifts, quickly peek into the engine room in passing (150 units of intact [[Elerium-115]] waiting, sweet); send one guy straight to the top floor to hide by the door, while the other two on his team go halfway up and bust open the shaft with plasma rounds. Five guys sweep the middle deck. Usually the floaters are starting to panic by now. Then all six troops re-converge on the lift, head for the upper deck, and advance on the control room. First guy out of the lift turns right, the second turns left, checks the corner, then turns to stand next to the closed door to the south, third advances past second guy to snipe towards control room, and the fourth (if time) enters the closed door to the south. Then it's just a matter of leap-frogging most of the team up the north corridor towards the control room with overwatch while one or two do a quick sweep of the narrow south corridor, perhaps opening a shortcut across the waist of the ship with heavy plasma along the way.

Occasionally I'd vary this routine by hitting the floor of the control room from below with HE-HC or stun rounds, but that could be considered cheating. But not as [[Exploits|exploitative]] as the time I shoved a brick of HE up through the floor of the control room. A quick way to end the mission. Also fun is tossing HE or alien grenades into the diagonal walls at the back of the ship, near the lifts, from outside, with a long delay; if timed right, this kills anyone near the lifts inside just before the breaching team gets there. In mountain terrain, this might even destroy the outer wall at the waist of the ship! Easy lift access if I had stuck around!

And all that procedure comes from harsh experience, like the time I forgot to check the corner after coming out of the top level lift and was shot in the back.

And it got me a sectoid leader for [[Psionics]], too, once I had identified my weakest link and given him a standard pistol and smoke grenades. The decoy was being alternately panicked and controlled somewhere out in the forest right up until the powersuits kicked in the control room door and hit the preoccupied leader with stun rounds at point blank range. Previously, every attempted sectoid supply ship hijacking or sectoid base raid had been a psi-attacked disaster.

--[[User:JellyfishGreen|JellyfishGreen]] 14:26, 23 May 2005 (BST)

''Note: This was on Normal difficulty. At Superhuman difficulty, there's a few more aliens around, and it becomes wiser to stand in the lift (since aliens don't shoot down well) than to hide by the door. --[[User:JellyfishGreen|JellyfishGreen]] 01:35, 26 Sep 2005 (PDT)''

== Notes ==
* In the above example "I had a modified Firestorm stalking them, with 6 soldiers and a HWP" indicates a modified game using XcomUtil. In an unmodified game this is just an interception craft.
* If you want Elerium, don't use explosives near the power cores.
* If you have stunned a 'soldier' class and don't want it, relocate it and grenade it, or use medikits to awaken then shoot.
* If you assault craft that are landed you will get more things to sell, but there may be more aliens to shoot your head off.

''For medium-sized and larger UFO's in the later game, your best friends are some flying suits and a [[Blaster Launcher|blaster bomb]]. Use the blaster to make a hole in the topmost level of the craft--only blasters can pierce the outer walls of UFOs. Then send in your flying units. This will let you take out the alien leader sooner-- which I believe adversely effects the morales of the enemy-- and lets you attack from an unexpected angle.''

''In general, it's best to make new doors inside a UFO than use the existing ones, since the aliens have a tougher time setting up ambushes that way. Use heavy plasma to shoot open internal walls (see [[Destroying Terrain]]).''
--[[User:Papa Legba|Papa Legba]] 13:09, 22 Nov 2005 (PST)

''If you feel like you absolutely must use a lot of explosives, you can save the elerium by shooting the power source (with a non explosive weapon), and then picking up the elerium crystal in the inventory. I don't find it worth the time to do, but if you must use explosives then it's better than losing 50 elerium''
~~ [[User:Blehm|Blehm]]

==See Also==
[[UFO Crash Recovery]]

[[Category:Missions]]
[[Category: Tactics]]

User talk:Kpov

2008-06-03T21:39:41Z

(name here):

= Introduction =

I'm Kpov and I've played UFO: Enemy Unknown ([[X-COM]]) a fair amount over the years.
Recently I found the 1-Mission X-COM page by [[User_talk:Arrow_Quivershaft#1_Mission_X-COM | Arrow Quivershaft]] and it was very different and quite fun to play.

I put together the following guide on the battleship assault after playing it on Veteran a second time.

= How to Capture Battleship Crew with Rookies – A Walkthrough with Screencaps=

*; Introduction

In [[User_talk:Arrow_Quivershaft#1_Mission_X-COM |1-Mission X-COM]] you have a single [[Battleship]] [[UFO Ground Assault | Ground assault]] to bring back aliens and technology home for research. The hardest part is ensuring capture of [[Research#The Minimum Three|The Minimum Three]]. The extremely limited range of [[Stun Rod]]s can mean a outdoor stun assault is a hopeless cause. Rookies will get shredded before closing the distance against aliens armed with [[Heavy Plasma]].

This high-speed saturate-and-storm strategy that has been shown to work with modest losses, allowing the capture of every alien still inside the battleship at turn 4.

*; Prerequisites

:* [[Skyranger]] at a landed [[Battleship]] site. Most commonly you can find these on an [[Alien Infiltration]] mission in formation with another Battleship, a [[Supply Ship]] and a small UFO.
:* In the Skyranger, 14 soldiers, each with [[Laser Rifle]], [[Smoke Grenade]], [[Stun Rod]] and an [[Electro-flare]] in case it's a night mission.
:* Optionally consider issuing [[Medi-Kit]]s or [[High Explosive]] to Rookies with high [[Strength]].
:* Fully constructed [[Alien Containment]] facility.

*; Notes

:* Capturing the [[Commander (Alien Rank) | Commander]], [[Leader (Alien Rank) | Leader]] and [[Navigator (Alien Rank) | Navigator]] alive is the only priority.
:* [[Muton]] Battleships apparently do not contains Leaders or Commanders so dust-off if you encounter one.
:* Odds are 3 to 6 soldiers will be killed in the assault.
:* Shooting any aliens outside the Battleship is allowed and encouraged.
:* The high-ranking aliens are almost certain to be inside the Battleship when you follow the rush tactics here.

== Battleship Layout ==
<gallery>
Image:UFO_160MAP-L1.JPG|Ground
Image:UFO_160MAP-L2.JPG|Middle deck
Image:UFO_160MAP-L3.JPG|Command deck
Image:UFO_160MAP.JPG|Roof
</gallery>

== Turn 1 ==

* Deploy one soldier to look around for nearby enemies, eliminate any seen.
* In this case a single [[Chryssalid]] was spotted, taken out with several Auto shots.
* Throw a [[Smoke Grenade]] outside to cover deployment of all soldiers out of the Skyranger.
 
[[Image:Kpov_turn1.png]]
 
== Turn 2 ==

* A point man should move ahead as far ahead as possible and a smoke grenade should be used to cover this position.
* 2-3 soldiers should be deployed to clear the surroundings.
* The other 10 should press on for the access lift after shooting any enemies spotted.
* Here a Chryssalid was spotted, too far away for it to present a danger in the next turn, so it was not fired on this turn.
 
[[Image:Kpov_turn2.png]]
 
== Turn 3 ==

* Any enemies spotted should be dealt with using the Laser Rifles.
* Throw a smoke grenade forward between the engine pods. This will cover the men in their push forward.
* The squad advance as far as possible, standing at the edge of an engine pod.
* Continue to sweep perimeter with team, in this case a [[Snakeman]] was spotted but was not hit by fire.
 
[[Image:Kpov_turn3.png]]
[[Image:Kpov_turn3b.png]]
[[Image:Kpov_turn3a.png]]
 
== Turn 4 ==

* Move the squad to stack up between the pods near the lift.
* Any aliens outside the UFO should be shot on sight (they are very likely to be mere [[Soldier (Alien Ranks)|Soldiers]]).
* Chryssalids or other [[Terror Units]] should be executed with extreme prejudice.
 
[[Image:Kpov_turn4.png]]
[[Image:Kpov_turn4a.png]]
 
== Turn 5 – Operation Lift Storm ==

* Take nine soldiers and rush into the turbolift, filling the downstairs. The aliens will now be unable to exit the [[Battleship]].
* If there's any alien already downstairs in the lift:
:*Walk the soldier next to them
:*Turn to face them
:*Use the Stun Rod until the alien is stunned
:*Repeat with another soldier if required.
* Move the perimeter team onward to continue clearing.
* Soldiers remaining near but not inside the lift should kneel with plenty of [[Time Units]] remaining to pick off any aliens loitering around the engine pods in [[Reaction Fire]].
 
[[Image:Kpov_turn5.png]]
 
== Turn 6 ==

* It's stun-only from now on for the soldiers in the lift.
* Dump Laser Rifles into the backpack and the Stun Rods in their hands.
* Keep the soldiers at the bottom of the lift for the moment.
* Slowly advance the remaining outside teams to sweep for stragglers like this Snakeman. If you find any, gun them down unless you're near enough to consider the rod.
 
[[Image:Kpov_turn6.png]]
 
== Turns 7 to 11 – Heads Up ==

* Time to clear out the middle deck. Aliens from this deck congregate in the four corridors and will advance towards the turbolift on each turn.
* Some of the soldiers can probably already see aliens from where they are at the bottom of the turbolift.
* Take one soldier and pop up to the middle deck and look down each corridor, identifying targets, and then pop down. This is risky, and your soldier may get shot when going up the lift if they appear in an alien's line of fire.
* If aliens are very close to the lift, take another soldier up and try to stun.
;* Ensure they have enough TUs to get back down to relative safety at the bottom of the lift!
* Repeat until the visible enemies are pacified with the Stun Rods.
* The sheer number of soldiers in the lift means there is a very good chance to stun multiple enemies in one turn. If you have enough [[TUs]], check to see the rank of the alien stunned by standing over them and going to the Inventory screen.
* Complete the outdoors sweep with your remaining teams.
 
[[Image:Kpov_turn7.png]]
[[Image:Kpov_turn9a.png]]
[[Image:Kpov_turn9.png]]
[[Image:Kpov_turn11a.png]]
 
== Turn 12 ==

* When you can no longer see any aliens down any of the four corridors, it's quite likely the deck is clear.
* In any case, if you can't see any aliens on the middle deck, it's then safe to send your soldiers up to the command deck.
* Stun any alien upstairs by the lift.
* Move the entire assault team up the lift and leave them ready for entry by the sides of the doors.
 
[[Image:Kpov_turn12.png]]
 
== Turn 13 – Snakeman Stun Sensation ==

* With the squad by the doors, send a soldier out each door to spot any targets.
;* If in stun range, send as many soldiers their way IMMEDIATELY until they are pacified. The high-ranking aliens may be carrying [[Blaster Launcher]]s or [[Alien Grenade]]s.
* If an spotted alien is allowed to play out their turn and use explosive weaponry, there's a good chance the mission will prematurely end in complete disaster.
* Fan-out to get to positions where you can advance down the corridors the next term.
* You may be lucky and grab a [[Commander (Alien Rank) | Commander]] and [[Leader (Alien Rank) | Leader]] right outside the lift room like this.
 
[[Image:Kpov_turn13.png]]
[[Image:Kpov_turn13a.png]]
[[Image:Kpov_turn13b.png]]
 
== Turns 14-16 ==

* Advance down the corridors as far as you can each turn and storm the North and South rooms first.
* A [[Navigator (Alien Rank) | Navigator]] is usually right by the bridge at the South.
* If you can see an alien but can't get close enough to stun in a given turn you might try throwing a smoke grenade their way to limit their sight range.
* Still, you might lose a soldier or two to reaction fire when closing with the Stun Rod, which can't really be avoided if there's a single entrance.
* According to [[Destroying Terrain]] the security walls on the command deck will not be breached by Laser Rifles, so don't try re-equipping them.
 
[[Image:Kpov_turn15.png]]
[[Image:Kpov_turn16.png]]
 
== Remaining Turns ==

* With the command deck sweep complete, head back to the lift.
* I found a loitering Snakeman here, maybe woken up or had moved up from the middle deck.
* Proceed downstairs and back to a through clearance of the middle deck.
* At some point, you'll stun the last alien and the mission ends.
 
[[Image:Kpov_turn17.png]]
 
== Mission Completed ==

* Be sure to see the outstanding [[Research]] topics to check you got the Commander, Leader and Navigator!
 
[[Image:Kpov_missioncompleted.png]]
 
= Conclusion =

If you read this far, I'd be interested in any comments or such! Try the [[User_talk:Arrow_Quivershaft#1_Mission_X-COM | 1-Mission X-COM]] for a challenge if you haven't already.

I'm just trying to be a better X-COM commander. My name is [[User:Kpov|Kpov]].

= Comments =

I'd advise rushing the bridge level and grabbing the top three immediately on reaching the battleship. once you've stunned the top three, who virtually always stay up top, station a guard on each of them, then switch back to laser rifles and sweep the ship.--[[User:(name here)|(name here)]] 04:10, 2 June 2008 (PDT)

Great guide. Good usage of smokes, good writing style. I thought this would end up with lots more bodybags... If you plan on making the same guide on winning mars with n00b soldiers, can you make video of it too? ;-) [[User:Seb76|Seb76]] 16:55, 2 June 2008 (PDT)

Yes, very good guide. The two things I'd add to it are that it's not useful to have more than three smoke grenades going at one time (the game runs out of smoke tiles) and that aliens carrying small launchers will sometimes do you the favor of knocking themselves out (or even each other), especially if you're standing next to them point-blank. When faced with multiple aliens and limited firepower, go after the launcher-equipped ones last.--[[User:Ethereal Cereal|Ethereal Cereal]] 20:28, 2 June 2008 (PDT)

:Thanks for all the comments. Something I occasionally do is a variant on [[User:(name here)|(name here)]]'s advice, I pick up the Cmdrs/Leaders/Navig and keep them in backpacks and keep those soldiers where they are. If any turn those soldiers have full TUs (usually not, aliens are [[Item Weights|really heavy]]!) then their alien pal must have woken up and will be nearby, though without any weapons.
:Anyone got a screencap showing a Floater/Sectoid/Snakeman with a [[Small Launcher]] for reference? If not I might take a few that help to identify what weapons aliens are armed with. I'm not sure how to record an X-COM mission as video though, Seb76. Any ideas? [[User:Kpov|Kpov]] 11:56, 3 June 2008 (PDT)

::video capture program of some kind should do it. i think there may be one around, if not, medics and engineers carry them, tough engineers may have blaster launchers instead.--[[User:(name here)|(name here)]] 14:39, 3 June 2008 (PDT)

User talk:Kpov

2008-06-02T11:10:54Z

(name here):

= Introduction =

I'm Kpov and I've played UFO: Enemy Unknown ([[X-COM]]) a fair amount over the years.
Recently I found the 1-Mission X-COM page by [[User_talk:Arrow_Quivershaft#1_Mission_X-COM | Arrow Quivershaft]] and it was very different and quite fun to play.

I put together the following guide on the battleship assault after playing it on Veteran a second time.

= How to Capture Battleship Crew with Rookies – A Walkthrough with Screencaps=

*; Introduction

In [[User_talk:Arrow_Quivershaft#1_Mission_X-COM |1-Mission X-COM]] you have a single [[Battleship]] [[UFO Ground Assault | Ground assault]] to bring back aliens and technology home for research. The hardest part is ensuring capture of [[Research#The Minimum Three|The Minimum Three]]. The extremely limited range of [[Stun Rod]]s can mean a outdoor stun assault is a hopeless cause. Rookies will get shredded before closing the distance against aliens armed with [[Heavy Plasma]].

This high-speed saturate-and-storm strategy that has been shown to work with modest losses, allowing the capture of every alien still inside the battleship at turn 4.

*; Prerequisites

:* [[Skyranger]] at a landed [[Battleship]] site. Most commonly you can find these on an [[Alien Infiltration]] mission in formation with another Battleship, a [[Supply Ship]] and a small UFO.
:* In the Skyranger, 14 soldiers, each with [[Laser Rifle]], [[Smoke Grenade]], [[Stun Rod]] and an [[Electro-flare]] in case it's a night mission.
:* Optionally consider issuing [[Medi-Kit]]s or [[High Explosive]] to Rookies with high [[Strength]].
:* Fully constructed [[Alien Containment]] facility.

*; Notes

:* Capturing the [[Commander (Alien Rank) | Commander]], [[Leader (Alien Rank) | Leader]] and [[Navigator (Alien Rank) | Navigator]] alive is the only priority.
:* [[Muton]] Battleships apparently do not contains Leaders or Commanders so dust-off if you encounter one.
:* Odds are 3 to 6 soldiers will be killed in the assault.
:* Shooting any aliens outside the Battleship is allowed and encouraged.
:* The high-ranking aliens are almost certain to be inside the Battleship when you follow the rush tactics here.

== Battleship Layout ==
<gallery>
Image:UFO_160MAP-L1.JPG|Ground
Image:UFO_160MAP-L2.JPG|Middle deck
Image:UFO_160MAP-L3.JPG|Command deck
Image:UFO_160MAP.JPG|Roof
</gallery>

== Turn 1 ==

* Deploy one soldier to look around for nearby enemies, eliminate any seen.
* In this case a single [[Chryssalid]] was spotted, taken out with several Auto shots.
* Throw a [[Smoke Grenade]] outside to cover deployment of all soldiers out of the Skyranger.
 
[[Image:Kpov_turn1.png]]
 
== Turn 2 ==

* A point man should move ahead as far ahead as possible and a smoke grenade should be used to cover this position.
* 2-3 soldiers should be deployed to clear the surroundings.
* The other 10 should press on for the access lift after shooting any enemies spotted.
* Here a Chryssalid was spotted, too far away for it to present a danger in the next turn, so it was not fired on this turn.
 
[[Image:Kpov_turn2.png]]
 
== Turn 3 ==

* Any enemies spotted should be dealt with using the Laser Rifles.
* Throw a smoke grenade forward between the engine pods. This will cover the men in their push forward.
* The squad advance as far as possible, standing at the edge of an engine pod.
* Continue to sweep perimeter with team, in this case a [[Snakeman]] was spotted but was not hit by fire.
 
[[Image:Kpov_turn3.png]]
[[Image:Kpov_turn3b.png]]
[[Image:Kpov_turn3a.png]]
 
== Turn 4 ==

* Move the squad to stack up between the pods near the lift.
* Any aliens outside the UFO should be shot on sight (they are very likely to be mere [[Soldier (Alien Ranks)|Soldiers]]).
* Chryssalids or other [[Terror Units]] should be executed with extreme prejudice.
 
[[Image:Kpov_turn4.png]]
[[Image:Kpov_turn4a.png]]
 
== Turn 5 – Operation Lift Storm ==

* Take nine soldiers and rush into the turbolift, filling the downstairs. The aliens will now be unable to exit the [[Battleship]].
* If there's any alien already downstairs in the lift:
:*Walk the soldier next to them
:*Turn to face them
:*Use the Stun Rod until the alien is stunned
:*Repeat with another soldier if required.
* Move the perimeter team onward to continue clearing.
* Soldiers remaining near but not inside the lift should kneel with plenty of [[Time Units]] remaining to pick off any aliens loitering around the engine pods in [[Reaction Fire]].
 
[[Image:Kpov_turn5.png]]
 
== Turn 6 ==

* It's stun-only from now on for the soldiers in the lift.
* Dump Laser Rifles into the backpack and the Stun Rods in their hands.
* Keep the soldiers at the bottom of the lift for the moment.
* Slowly advance the remaining outside teams to sweep for stragglers like this Snakeman. If you find any, gun them down unless you're near enough to consider the rod.
 
[[Image:Kpov_turn6.png]]
 
== Turns 7 to 11 – Heads Up ==

* Time to clear out the middle deck. Aliens from this deck congregate in the four corridors and will advance towards the turbolift on each turn.
* Some of the soldiers can probably already see aliens from where they are at the bottom of the turbolift.
* Take one soldier and pop up to the middle deck and look down each corridor, identifying targets, and then pop down. This is risky, and your soldier may get shot when going up the lift if they appear in an alien's line of fire.
* If aliens are very close to the lift, take another soldier up and try to stun.
;* Ensure they have enough TUs to get back down to relative safety at the bottom of the lift!
* Repeat until the visible enemies are pacified with the Stun Rods.
* The sheer number of soldiers in the lift means there is a very good chance to stun multiple enemies in one turn. If you have enough [[TUs]], check to see the rank of the alien stunned by standing over them and going to the Inventory screen.
* Complete the outdoors sweep with your remaining teams.
 
[[Image:Kpov_turn7.png]]
[[Image:Kpov_turn9a.png]]
[[Image:Kpov_turn9.png]]
[[Image:Kpov_turn11a.png]]
 
== Turn 12 ==

* When you can no longer see any aliens down any of the four corridors, it's quite likely the deck is clear.
* In any case, if you can't see any aliens on the middle deck, it's then safe to send your soldiers up to the command deck.
* Stun any alien upstairs by the lift.
* Move the entire assault team up the lift and leave them ready for entry by the sides of the doors.
 
[[Image:Kpov_turn12.png]]
 
== Turn 13 – Snakeman Stun Sensation ==

* With the squad by the doors, send a soldier out each door to spot any targets.
;* If in stun range, send as many soldiers their way IMMEDIATELY until they are pacified. The high-ranking aliens may be carrying [[Blaster Launcher]]s or [[Alien Grenade]]s.
* If an spotted alien is allowed to play out their turn and use explosive weaponry, there's a good chance the mission will prematurely end in complete disaster.
* Fan-out to get to positions where you can advance down the corridors the next term.
* You may be lucky and grab a [[Commander (Alien Rank) | Commander]] and [[Leader (Alien Rank) | Leader]] right outside the lift room like this.
 
[[Image:Kpov_turn13.png]]
[[Image:Kpov_turn13a.png]]
[[Image:Kpov_turn13b.png]]
 
== Turns 14-16 ==

* Advance down the corridors as far as you can each turn and storm the North and South rooms first.
* A [[Navigator (Alien Rank) | Navigator]] is usually right by the bridge at the South.
* If you can see an alien but can't get close enough to stun in a given turn you might try throwing a smoke grenade their way to limit their sight range.
* Still, you might lose a soldier or two to reaction fire when closing with the Stun Rod, which can't really be avoided if there's a single entrance.
* According to [[Destroying Terrain]] the security walls on the command deck will not be breached by Laser Rifles, so don't try re-equipping them.
 
[[Image:Kpov_turn15.png]]
[[Image:Kpov_turn16.png]]
 
== Remaining Turns ==

* With the command deck sweep complete, head back to the lift.
* I found a loitering Snakeman here, maybe woken up or had moved up from the middle deck.
* Proceed downstairs and back to a through clearance of the middle deck.
* At some point, you'll stun the last alien and the mission ends.
 
[[Image:Kpov_turn17.png]]
 
== Mission Completed ==

* Be sure to see the outstanding [[Research]] topics to check you got the Commander, Leader and Navigator!
 
[[Image:Kpov_missioncompleted.png]]
 
= Conclusion =

If you read this far, I'd be interested in any comments or such!

Try the [[User_talk:Arrow_Quivershaft#1_Mission_X-COM | 1-Mission X-COM]] for a challenge if you haven't already. [[User:Kpov|Kpov]] 17:13, 1 June 2008 (PDT)

= Comments =

I'd advise rushing the bridge level and grabbing the top three immediately on reaching the battleship. once you've stunned the top three, who virtually always stay up top, station a guard on each of them, then switch back to laser rifles and sweep the ship.--[[User:(name here)|(name here)]] 04:10, 2 June 2008 (PDT)

Base Defence

2008-05-17T15:11:19Z

(name here):

==Briefing==
An Alien vessel has landed nearby. Our base is in severe danger. As per standard procedure all non-combat personnel and X-COM craft have been evacuated. Alien units will enter the base via hangar doors or the access lift. Defend the base and its vital installations at all costs - this is a fight to the death.

== Battleships ==

An inbound [[Battleship]] on a "[[Alien Missions#Alien Retaliation|Retaliation]]" mission means there is a high chance that a Base Defense mission is in the offing for you. These ships will come in at a very low altitude, at about their top speed. They obviously must not care about the well being of the craft to run it that hard in a full atmosphere!

You can bring down these battleships with sufficient [[Base Defense Measures (UFO Defense)|Base Defense Measures]], but the game is programmed to just send another on the exact same mission. It's been proven that about 6 or 7 [[Fusion Ball Defences]] with [[Grav Shield]] (total defensive strength 6000) can hold off incoming battleships (hull strength 3000) indefinitely, but since you get no bonus for blowing a battleship out of the sky, not even to monthly score, it's better to let them land eventually and just run the mission. Once you've run the mission, win or lose, the attacks stop coming. The aliens seem to forget where the base is...

Only battleships actually assault your base. Don't worry too much about other alien craft on "Retaliation" missions, they're just scouts. Shooting these down far away from your base may confuse the aliens as to where your base actually is. Shooting them down will also ruin their base finding mission, saving your base until the next scout is sent to replace the first.

== Battle Tips ==

A good [[Base Layout Strategy]] is of paramount importance here. Make sure your base is designed to make it easy to defend.

You really want everybody at home for a base defense mission. If you're caught with your Skyranger off at some UFO crash site, you'll have to defend the base with a rookie, two guys on crutches that were in med-bay, and the antique [[Tank/Cannon]] you hadn't got around to selling yet. Mind you, the odds are still in your favor. You know the layout, it's fully lit, and you (should have) designed in choke points.

Equipment assigned to your craft is available for base defense missions, unless the craft is out of the base. Equipment loaded on craft in the base becomes part of the general 80-item pool. If it were otherwise, your psionic troopers would likely be useless for want of Psi-amps.

Battleships will unload both regular aliens and their associated [[Terror Units]]. You won't ever see the battleship, but you will get to see all those nifty modules you've been constructing in the Base Planner view, close-up! Base modules have two levels. Soldiers will normally spawn/start in Living Quarters and Storage modules. Aliens spawn/start in Hangars and the Access Lift.

A soldier with a [[Motion Scanner]] in an upstairs closet near the access lift combined with a [[Tank/Rocket_Launcher|rocket tank]] at standoff range will keep the aliens at bay until the rockets run out. ''-see also [Stewart's] strategy on xcomufo.com forums.''

[[Blaster Bomb]]s can clear your base in just a few turns, if you launch a few into the hangars and access lift. ''The problem is getting the program to supply your soldiers with blaster bombs before hitting the 80-item limit.''

Hovertank/Launchers are almost as good at clearing out your base, except for the fact that their missiles are more prone to inaccuracy and often veer off and blow up against the wrong walls. ''Since the game has a "free ammo for HWP in base defence" bug, I don't see HOW you can lose as long as you keep 3-4 of these things in every base.''

Doing too much damage to a room can also collapse it, and you will lose that room permanently. Any rooms that can only be accessed by going through the collapsed room will also be lost. Spawn-point rooms such as Living Quarters, Stores, Access Lift, and Hangars can't be collapsed.

You can recover lots of valuable [[Elerium-115]] and alien weapons from a successful base defense. In at least one version of the game, the amount of Elerium recovered is extraordinary, enough to start selling it.

Losing or abandoning the battle means losing the base. Although sometimes you can still come out with a positive score for your trouble.

It might be best to disarm all your psi-weak soldiers at this base if there are ethereals or sectoids attacking.

If you built a General Stores near the Access Lift, the double doors are a great place for ambushing aliens as they leave the Access Lift. Each chamber will hold two soldiers. Eight soldiers stepping out and firing one or two bursts of laser or plasma shots will almost guarantee that no alien penetrates further into your base. Also, so long as no soldiers or tanks are visible during the aliens' turn, they will not make psi attacks (visible to any alien, not just the psionic alien). The [[Destroying Terrain#Terrain structures|doors]] have a damage rating of 75, which means they will withstand an alien grenade detonated right beside them. This tactic has one downside against Sectoids: Cyberdisks will explode when killed at the chokepoint and destroy a large proportion of the loot.

Alien Weaponry that has been researched can be used for Base Defense even if it's ammunition has NOT been researched. In other Missions you simply cannot load the ammo in your transport, but when defending a base this is not necessary. The clips will be labeled as alien artifacts, but can be used as if research was finished (except that it cannot be thrown).

''[ [[User:NKF|NKF]]: Elerium collection from a base defence mission can only happen if elerium pods are generated in the battlescape. See, if you have 10 units in storage, the game will generate 10 pods in the base, given sufficient space in the object table. But because the way the game automatically converts 1 pod into 50 units at the end of the mission, you're basically getting 5000% more elerium from your own pods (those that don't get destroyed, anyway). None of them come from the aliens! Until this is verified for 1.4 and 1.4ce, it is safe to say that this will only happen in earlier versions of the game.] ''

''[ [[User:Zombie|Zombie]]: I tried this out today on my 1.4ce, and just like I thought, no Elerium spawned.] ''

''[A somewhat unorthodox strategy, forced by necessity, paid off for Zombie: "I armed my best soldiers with the stun rods, hid them in the General Stores next to the Access Lift, and went to work. Every round a Snakeman would appear from the Access Lift, and every round one of my soldiers would stun the alien while another veteran grabbed the body and hauled the poor alien upstairs for observation. I was laughing so hard I almost peed my pants!" - as copied from strategycore. Mental picture of a Snakeman with a pillowcase over his head, zipcuffed arms behind his back, old army sock stuffed in the mouth, being heaved into a darkened storeroom on top of his buddies. "We get $20K for each, alive or dead, right?" --[[User:JellyfishGreen|JellyfishGreen]] 08:34, 14 Oct 2005 (PDT) ]''

== To Surrender or Not To Surrender ==

There are only two costs incurred when you lose a base:
# You lose the base and everything in it;
# You lose points for the soldiers and tanks that died defending the base.

The loss of the base is presumably erased from the annals of history. It's all kept very hush-hush from the public. The non-combat staff and all ships that were at the base are disbanded and are not lost in the battle. X-Com ships vanish without a trace, probably stolen by wretched engineers. The deaths of the soldiers on the other hand are a lot harder to explain, and friends and families are bound to make inquiries.

Therefore, if you find yourself in a situation where you are defending a base against an enemy that you have no hope of winning against, should you surrender without a fight, or fight it out? You will need to base this on who you are fighting with and what you have to fight them with.

For example, a fresh batch of recruits in jumpsuits armed with regulation standard pistols and rifles against an elite squad of [[Ethereal]]s and [[Sectopod]]s. This can be classed as a hopeless battle should you not be able to utilise the weapons used by the attackers. In a situation like this, you should cut your losses and surrender without a fight.
This will incur a 0 point penalty along with the loss of the base.

On the other hand, should it be against [[Floater]]s, you could push on and try your luck.

Alternately, you could also try to kill as many raiders as you can before surrendering.
As long as you did not lose any soldiers in the process, you will get a positive score for losing the base. If this is an option, go for it. If not, don't.

It is understandable that some commanders may be too proud to go down without a fight. There is nothing wrong with that, but do try to consider the consequences of any actions before taking them.

'''Note:''' All of the above relates to raids on bases when you have more than one base. If you are put into a situation where you cannot save your very last base, then you should consider restarting the game.

''If you have have advance warning about a base raid that you're going to surrender-- i.e., a hyperwave decoder, or you can see that battleship making a beeline for your base on a normal radar-- take the time to transfer as much as you can out of that base to other bases before the raid hits.
If you've got free hangars in other bases, transfer the craft, save any elerium there, and transfer out all the personnel you can.
An obvious thing, but can be quickly forgotten in the shadow of a battleship. --[[User:Papa Legba|Papa Legba]] 17:36, 22 Nov 2005 (PST)''

''As stated earlier, the aliens can attack your base pretty early (especially on superhuman; For example, I got my first raid before laser pistol research was done!) - pistols and grenades may work well against sektoids, but are pretty worthless against cyberdiscs - still, even in this case, the answer should be clearly "not to surrender!" - In the early stage of the game, there are two ways of winning against cyberdiscs: first: get a soldier to stand near it and provoke a reaction shot by a different alien and hope it hits the disc, leads to its death and doesnt let it explode. Or just stun it - 2-3 soldiers with stun rods do a great job there, especially in a base with its plenty of cover.. '' [[User: Player11]] 23:47, 23 oct 2006

==Alien Deployment==
<table {{StdCenterTable}}>
<tr {{StdDescTable_Heading}}><th align="left">Rank</th>
<th>Beg./Exp.</th>
<th>Vet./Gen.</th>
<th>Super.</th></tr>
<tr><td align="left">Soldiers</td><td>4-8</td><td>6-10</td><td>8-12</td></tr>
<tr><td align="left">Navigators*</td><td>1</td><td>1</td><td>2</td></tr>
<tr><td align="left">Medics* **</td><td>1</td><td>1</td><td>2</td></tr>
<tr><td align="left">Engineers*</td><td>1</td><td>1</td><td>2</td></tr>
<tr><td align="left">Leaders***</td><td>1</td><td>2</td><td>3</td></tr>
<tr><td align="left">Commanders***</td><td>1</td><td>1</td><td>1</td></tr>
<tr><td align="left">Terrorists</td><td>0-2</td><td>2-4</td><td>4-6</td></tr>
<tr><th>Totals</th><td>9-15</td><td>14-20</td><td>22-28</td></tr>
</table> 

<nowiki>*</nowiki>Ethereals use Ethereal Leaders in place of Navigators, Medics, and Engineers. 
<nowiki>**</nowiki>Snakemen use Snakeman Soldiers in place of Medics. 
<nowiki>***</nowiki>Mutons use Muton Soldiers in place of Leaders and Commanders.

== Bugs ==
Base defenses can be DEADLY.

But not for the reason you think.

*When you have more than 80 items present at a base, the game will only make available the first 80 items on the stores list (See '80-item Limit' in [[Known Bugs]].) . This will result in conventional weapons/stun rods/electroflares/etc. being available instead of lasers/plasmas. To prevent this there are 3 possible solutions before that Battleship strikes the base:
1) Transfer the unwanted items to another base. 
2) Load your transports (if there's any) with the unwanted items and launch them before the UFO lands. This saves the work of having to transfer those items back but if the base gets destroyed the transport will disappear and the waypoint to which it was headed will remain visible for the rest of the game. 
3) [[Spring_Cleaning_Tips|Sell unnecessary stuff]]. ''"Imminent Alien Invasion Yard Sale! Everything Must Go!"''

* If you had 40 heavy plasmas in your base and forgot to get rid of those 40 smoke grenades, all your troopers would be lacking the clips for the heavy plasma. Good luck defending a base with nothing but 40 smoke grenades. ''[Darksun: Lucky for my stupid self, I had a couple of laser tanks to convince the aliens to lend me some ammo.]''

* A relatively easy way to counter this problem is to keep your stores of "conventional" weapons low and keep 20 or more [[Laser Rifle]]s in base inventories. Laser Rifles are high on the inventory list and are distributed before most other items. As they do not require ammo, any laser is immediately combat-ready.

*Another ANNOYING bug I find is the disappearing bodies and booty from aliens. This is related to the 80 item bug problem.

*Also much feared is the dreaded "walled off section" or [[Known_Bugs#Base_Disjoint_Bug|Base Disjoint Bug]]. Sections of your base along the extreme south and east edges will often be separated from each other by dirt walls. Heavy plasma and blaster launchers are needed in this scenario to excavate the dirt. Possible that heavy explosives might work too, I'm not sure. Soldiers spawning in Stores or Living Quarters here may be trapped for the duration.

*A much nicer bug is that [[Heavy Weapons Platforms|HWP]]'s automatically get a free load of ammo (which is added to your stores if unused). Note you still need at least one soldier as aliens landing at an unguarded base - or a base defended only by HWP's - take it without a fight.

*If you have a LOT of soldiers, enough to fill all your spawn points, soldiers will start taking alien spawn points. Which means less aliens. ''- much kudos to [Zombie]''

*The last point also applies to aliens: if the aliens don't have enough spawn points they will start using the X-COM ones, which can turn base defense into a nightmare!

Masochists: at superhuman, you get the same quantity of aliens as in the battleship, e.g. +25 aliens, +8 terror units. To get the full compliment to attack your base, you need AT MINIMUM 2 hangars. (Unless you want aliens to spawn in general stores downstairs corridor). Four hangars guarantee maximum alien load if you use 15 soldiers and conservative loadouts. ''I usually defend with 10 guys, 2 tanks VS four hangars. LasR ''

==See Also==

*[[X-Com Base Terrain]]
*[[Base Layout Strategy]]

[[Category:Missions]]
[[Category: Tactics]]

Ethereal

2008-05-17T15:06:13Z

(name here):

[[Image:ethereal.png|right|Ethereal]]
The '''Ethereal''' race is arguably the most dangerous species that X-COM forces faced during the First Alien War.

Ethereals are rarely seen on Earth as they prefer to send other races (especially [[Muton]]s) to carry out missions on their behalf.

==Statistics==
'''TUs:''' 68-79
'''Health:''' 55
'''Energy:''' 96-111
'''Reactions:''' 75-93
'''Strength:''' 48-52
'''Bravery:''' 80
'''Firing Accuracy:''' 37-92
'''Throwing Accuracy:''' 80
'''Psi Skill:''' 40-46, 45-52, 50-58
'''Psi Strength:''' 50-58, 60-70, 65-75

==Special Abilities==
Every member of the Ethereal race possesses very powerful [[Psionics|psionic abilities]] that can be used to make X-COM forces panic. It is even possible for Ethereals to take control of X-COM units and use them against us.

If X-COM ground forces encounter Ethereals on Earth, it will usually be at an [[Alien Base Assault|Alien Base]], or [[Terror Mission|terror site]]. Terror attacks by Ethereals are the most dangerous for both [[Civilian]]s and X-COM units - apart from having to deal with their psionic abilities, we also have to fight against [[Sectopod]]s.

Be aware of the fact that ethereals can fly, giving them access to just about anywhere on the map. They often use this to set up midair sniping positions, especially on the harder difficulties but not as much for across-the-map movement. [[Night Missions]] ARE A PAIN, especially since their nightvision is far superior to humans. Plus, flares and incendiaries aren't useful for illuminating empty air.

If an ethereal is "spotting" for his pals from around level 9 of the map and you can't find him, and his friends are all bombarding you with psi, you will probably have to abort... if you still can.

== Live Specimen ==
This being has awesome mental powers which allow for telepathic communication and telekinetic abilities.

The apparently weak physical abilities of this creature are sustained by its mental powers. We do not understand how these telekinetic powers work, since they seem to defy the laws of physics as we know them.

They are extremely dangerous in any combat situation, where they rely on their mental powers for combat. They rarely appear on Earth since they seem to rely on other races to pursue their objectives.

== Autopsy ==
[[Image:etherealautopsy.png|right|Ethereal - Autopsy]]
This being is physically retarded and seems incapable of sustaining any life functions.

The muscles are severely atrophied and the internal organs appear to be under-developed. The sensory organs, including the eyes, do not appear to function at all.

The brain, however, is well developed and draws on a high proportion of the body's blood supply. It is a mystery as to how this creature can sustain itself without external support.

==Notes==
The following are some miscellaneous notes on the Ethereal:
* The Ethereal takes 0.7x damage from [[Incendiary|fire]], and 0.8x [[stun]] damage.
* Very high Firing and Throwing Accuracy.
* Is very fast (very high TUs).
* High Health.
* Very high Energy.
* Very high Reactions.
* High Strength.
* Very high Psi Strength.
* There are no Ethereal Navigators, Engineers, or Medics. Ethereal Leaders will be used in their place.

==See Also==
[[Sectopod]]

[[Category:Alien life forms]]

Talk:Ethereal

2008-05-17T15:04:20Z

(name here):

Rarely seen? I see nothing but these after half to three quarters of a year.

----

Agreed, they don't seem rarer than any other race. We also should think about removing this statement:

"If X-COM ground forces encounter Ethereals on Earth, it will usually be at an Alien Base, or terror site."--[[User:Trotsky|Trotsky]] 00:33, 4 July 2006 (PDT)

----

Etherals are not common until later in the game. By the time you're seeing them on a regular basis, you should be ready to head off to Cydonia.

- [[User:Bomb_Bloke|Bomb Bloke]]

----

True. But there is no reason why they should appear more often in terror sites or bases than in crafts.--[[User:Trotsky|Trotsky]] 02:54, 4 July 2006 (PDT)

==Flying Ethereals==

Ethereals fly half of everywhere on the later levels. It's NOT uncommon to have an Ethereal on L1(above the ground) floating in midair waiting to peg your troops with reaction fire. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 11:40, 16 May 2008 (PDT)

----

Personally I've only ever seen them fly once, maybe even twice... And that was to hop straight onto a building that was next to them. You say they tend to do it more often as the game progresses?

- [[User:Bomb Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] 18:24, 16 May 2008 (PDT)

:I misspoke slightly. While I do see them set up midair sniping positions fairly often(Especially at night!), I meant to say I see them fly more often on higher difficulty levels. I should also note that I tend to wait around for significant periods before launching Cydonia, often a few years, so I see a lot of Ethereals. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 18:43, 16 May 2008 (PDT)

* I never found they fly when play with ''beginner'' difficulty though. [[User:L-Zwei|L-Zwei]] 21:44, 16 May 2008 (PDT)

:Happens to me. Dunno, really. Just saying in my experience they do actually fly an awful lot, or more generally hover to snipe(over cornfields is most annoying but a close second is using flight to leave through the hole that used to be the roof of the crashed UFO.) [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 21:47, 16 May 2008 (PDT)

:: I don't see ethereals very often, but on the rare occasions i do, they fly a lot. this is why fighting any number of etherals at night is a recipe for disaster. i once wiped hitting a small scout at night because it turned out the guy in the back with a heavy plasma was psi-weak, plus i didn't want to have to kill anyone off

Talk:Elerium-115

2008-04-28T16:57:05Z

(name here):

==Bug==
Has anyone ever came across an issue in the CE version of UFO in which a landed UFO gets assaulted and my guys leave the Power
Source intact, however, at the summary screen at the end - there is no elerium, although the power source appears?? I'm confused - I don't understand how that could have happened! I've only seen it once so far - could have been data corruption... not sure :s - [[User:Phoenix|Phoenix]]

Elerium is the very last item to be spawned in a battlescape map (first X-Com equipment, then alien equipment, then Elerium).

If you brought too many items to the battle site, it's possible that there wouldn't be room in memory for the Elerium. Bring along enough stuff and you can also deprive the aliens of their equipment.

Was the Elerium visible during gameplay (little purple stun bomb thingy sitting on the power supply, or white + on the radar)? If so, try picking it up (the power supply won't explode if you just shoot it).

-[[User:Bomb_Bloke|Bomb Bloke]]

Cheers for that Bomb Bloke - I haven't seen it happen again, as there has always been elerium on the missions that I expect it. After having a read through this site, about the object table overflowing, I can understand how that can happen. I'll keep an eye out for it in the future. Cheers again! :) - [[User:Phoenix|Phoenix]]

If you used explosives (grenades or cannons) near the power source, it's possible the Elerium was destroyed (damage=20) while the power source remained intact (damage=50) --[[User:Ethereal Cereal|Ethereal Cereal]] 21:33, 8 May 2006 (PDT

==How much Elerium is “1 Elerium“?==

Tequila, I've been away a while and am just noticing your "1 Elerium" section. '''Very''' interesting thoughts! Thanks for that bit of armchair science!!

But I can think of a couple of issues... on the one hand, surely at least the Avenger is space-worthy, which could mean it may fly in little or no atmosphere. This is also probably at least potentially true for all the researched craft, since they all use elerium engines and alien alloys, and are originally designed based on researching UFOs (all of which are space-worthy). Also known as, why not make is space-worthy, if you're designing something strong enough to face UFOs. (Even 1990s fighters could fly very high in the atmosphere, with a principle reason for not going to space being there's no air for their jet engines... but Elerium does away with that concern.) On the other hand, you left out of your calculations the price to be paid for fighting off gravity. That's surely energy expensive! (Look how big rockets have to be.) So you might consider toning down the drag factor... and introducing a big gravity factor, if you care to have another go at it.

I also really like the alternate approach to playing XCOM on your [[User:Tequilachef]] page. A few small conceptual constraints which make a huge difference in game play (a.k.a. there's always a real risk of losing).

- [[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]] 17:34, 10 October 2007 (PDT)

You are right I guess. I formerly had the gravity issue included by that:
"Now we take that keeping the craft at max speed only uses 95% of required energy per mission..."
I now changed that to 75%, which seems more likely to fit but is still far from exact.
In reality, the aspect of overcoming gravity would create a VERY complex mathematical problem. Flying higher lowers the atmospheric density and therefore atmospheric drag, but raises fuel requirements for obtaining flight height. Considering that complex flying maneuvers might be necessary for interception and that the starting height might vary from base to base no absolute solution exists. Constant calculations by computers would be a necessity.
Remember: Both atmospheric density and gravity depend on height (or distance from gravity source) and are both differential equations. If anyone reads this and has loads of time, feel free to work out that one. Else, I would prefer those educated guesses ;)

- tequilachef

:It's worth noting that while the UFO Power Source may be incredibly efficient in Elerium use, there is no guarantee that this is so in regards to the alien weapons. In fact, given the size of a power unit, I'd say it's more likely that the weapons are extremely inefficient in Elerium use. (Especially the heavy plasma clip; 3 times the Elerium for one-third more shots and just over double the killing power of the [[Plasma Pistol]].) We also don't know exactly where that Elerium used in construction of the grenade(or anything else) goes; it's quite possible that only a fraction of it goes into the charge/warhead and some is used in the creation of functional parts. Also, it should be noted that explosions do NOT scale linearly; twice as large a warhead on an atomic or hydrogen bomb does not equal twice the explosive power. In addition, it's been theorized that the explosion from UFO Power Sources is not from the impact; its from trying to start the UFO's engines in order to escape incoming X-COM troops before it's ready(thus why the aliens are killed immediately before the X-COM turn begins, and not when the UFO crashes.)

:Of course, since this is fiction, it really doesn't matter, just thought I'd bring a few things to the table since you seem interested in scientific accuracy. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 15:53, 2 November 2007 (PDT)

:: After running the numbers myself (54000nm in 10hr is, indeed, 10000km/hr - or about 278m/s) I can say that the quoted figures are slightly off. According to some quick research the density of air at that altitude is the same as the density of air at sea level. However, I used the classic formula of the drag equation:
::: Fd = 1/2ρv2CdA
::where ρ is the density of the air, v is the velocity, Cd is the coefficient of friction and A is the surface area. Using this we get Fd = 1/2 1.293 * (2782) * 0.3 * 20 - or about 299,785 Newtons of force. For total power requirement we use the Power Requirement equation P=FdR, where Fd is the result of the preceding Drag equation and R is the range - stated as being 100,000km (100,000,000m). Solving that equation we find that we require 2.99785*1013 Joules of energy. This figure, following the figures, is 75% of the total available power from the Elerium, so the total available power is 3.99712848*1013 Joules. With c equal to 299,792,457m/s plugged into Einsteins famous equation of: E = mc2 we get a result of 4.4*10-4 kilograms. However, this is stated as being 99% of the total, so we have a full load of Elerium fuel for the Avenger of 4.49*10-4kilograms. That is, 4.49 '''grams''' of fuel - and as the Avenger is stated as carrying 12 units of Elerium, the result is that each unit is 0.37 grams - that's right, 37 '''centigrams''' of Elerium per fuel unit. - [[User:Shadow|Shadow]] 18:23, 2 November 2007 (PDT)

::As for a Terror Ship containing 200 units of Elerium, if my above math is correct (as I believe), the result of that Elerium detonating at 100% conversion, isn't even equivalent to a 2 Megaton nuclear device. (200 units is about 74grams - direct conversion of all that mass would release about 6.65*1015 Joules of energy. 1 Megaton is equivalent to 4.185*1015 Joules. This places a 200 unit, 100% efficient explosive at about 1.6 Megatons in size. IIRC the largest nuclear device ever built was around 200 Megatons. (Note that the edge of non-overpressure damage for a 1 Megaton blast is around 20 Miles) - [[User:Shadow|Shadow]] 22:12, 2 November 2007 (PDT)

:Damn, this is all very cool armchair stuff. I just added a link at [[Realistic_Equivalents#Elerium-115]]. If anyone wants to summarize/move all this conjecture there, that's fine, but it sounds like it's still a moving target, as it were. And the E-115 page is a good enough place, anyway. - [[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]] 22:42, 2 November 2007 (PDT)

:::I've found an error in my above math. The velocity is 2778m/s, not 278m/s - this makes the force 29,930,555 Newtons. (call it 2.993*107 for simplicity) This makes it 2.993*1015 for the used power, or 3.99*1015 Joules. That works out to 0.0444kg, but, as stated, this is assumed to be 99% due to the 1% inefficiency - so it's 0.0449kg. Makes it 449 grams of Elerium covering 12 units, or around 37 grams of Elerium per unit. This would give a Terror Ship about 7.5 kilo's of Elerium - at 100% efficiency the amount of generated energy would be 6.74*1017 joules released. That would be equal to about 16 thousand megatons - the "Gigaton" designation comes in at 4.184*1018 Joules. This would be enough to shatter the Earth. However, this assumes that all generators detonate at the same time, there is no "material scattering" effect from the first blast(s) and that the Elerium converts at 100% efficiency. None of these things are likely to be true. - [[User:Shadow|Shadow]] 22:54, 2 November 2007 (PDT)
::::Bah, make that around 160 Megatons. This means that there have '''''still''''' been larger nuclear bombs produced on Earth. - [[User:Shadow|Shadow]] 23:03, 2 November 2007 (PDT)

:Very cool. For one thing though, UFO Power Sources do not "chain react", as recently posted at [[UFO_Crash_Recovery#Power_Source_Explosions_and_Elerium_Recovery]]. In the extreme case of the Terror Ship, if 1 PS explodes, it wastes all 3 of the others so that they don't explode. However, isolated PSs can all (independently) explode, as in the case of the Battleship. I have to say though I never saw the earth shatter... clearly those UFO walls are pretty heavy armor. ;) - [[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]] 23:08, 2 November 2007 (PDT)

::That's the point I was making. At only 160MT absolute potential for the 200 units of Elerium onboard a Terror Ship, well... That's assuming that all four cores go simultaneously and the Elerium converts at 100% in the "wild" reaction. The truth is that a single core going actually would disrupt the functioning of the other cores - by causing a scattering of the Elerium. As we can assume that each of the four cores contains 50 units, the math shows that each core is capable of somewhere between 39.5 and 40 megatons at the absolute limit. But that is in a perfect reaction - where the Elerium converts 100% to energy. The fact is that an uncontrolled reaction - like that which causes an explosion - is far from ideal, and would be, at most, 90% efficient, if not closer to 50%. And that also assumes that the Elerium's conversion releases the energy in an even mix of heat, pressure and radiation. The more likely result - seeing as how Elerium is capable of being used as a power source for pistols and other compact weapons - is that it releases a lot of easily converted radiation - likely in the form of high-energy beta particles. This isn't to say that Elerium can't have an explosive form of reaction - just that the way it's used in the reactors is probably as a beta-particle and heat generator, and potentially even X-Ray and Gamma-Ray source (both of which can be used with forms of photovoltaics to generate electricty). If they go for the efficient side, then the reaction used in reactors is more than 50 percent focused towards directly convertable forms of energy. Truthfully, I'm guessing that they focus it at 75 to 80 percent "hard radiation" (beta, gamma-ray and x-ray) output. This means that such a reactor going super-critical and exploding wouldn't do a lot of physical damage from the blast, but it would irradiate quite a bit. - [[User:Shadow|Shadow]] 14:41, 3 November 2007 (PDT)

:::I thought along similar lines. Your typical old-fashioned Hiroshima-style fission bomb contains like what, 10kg of U-235? Or whatever is the critical mass. But most of it is vaporized and sent flying in all directions as soon as things really get hot. Only a small amount actually reacts before the rest is blown apart. And this in a device that's meant to explode. IIRC, in Chernobyl none of the fissionable material actually exploded – excess heat produced a lot of steam which forced the lid open, then air rushing in allowed the graphite to catch fire and burn for days. In effect all fissionable material was wasted (in the sense of "not recoverable") yet in terms of explosions, it was nothing special. --[[User:Schnobs|Schnobs]] 19:01, 3 November 2007 (PDT)

:I've written a [http://shadowwolf.keil-draco.com/solver.py.txt program in Python] that solves all the equations - including the Barometric function for atmospheric density. On running it and giving it all the above parameters I've learned that even my "corrected" figures are off. An Avenger is carrying about 25.5 grams of Elerium, which makes each unit about 21/8 grams. This would give a Terror Ship a full load of 425 grams of Elerium, and a "perfect conditions" explosive potential of around 9Mt - the MIRV warheads on most missiles in the US arsenal during the 1960's was larger than that. Taking [[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed's]] reminder that Elerium reactors do not chain-react and [[User:Schnobs|Schnobs']] reminder that nuclear explosions never use the whole mass of the available material - a "high-end" estimate of material that reacts would be 50% - this would leave us with a single-reactor explosion of 1.25Mt - about four hundred times the total combined destructive potential of the (in)famous "Fat Man" and "Little Boy" bombs that were dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1944. However, the quoted figure for the size of the fireball for a 1Mt nuclear device (the US Minuteman Missile) is .96km. So the fireball from a 1.25Mt device is going to be about 1 mile. This says nothing about the area damaged or destroyed by the pressure-wave that a nuke generates. - [[User:Shadow|Shadow]] 01:21, 4 November 2007 (PST) (corrected later - [[User:Shadow|Shadow]] 02:24, 4 November 2007 (PST))

::Based on the 11 tile blast radius of any power core and the 2.26 meter per tile conjecture we can see that the blast diameter of a power core is approximately 50 meters. With a 960m blast diameter being what is expected from a 1 Megaton bomb, and a 48m one from a 20 kiloton bomb, we find that the power cores detonation is right around 20 kilotons. That means that about 1 gram of material has been consumed for the explosion. In other words, not even a single unit of Elerium detonates. - [[User:Shadow|Shadow]] 21:09, 4 November 2007 (PST)

:::I don't know where or how you came by the figures of 960m or 48m respectively, but have some doubt as to what they actually mean. Pictures from the japanese cities are not conclusive (bomb was touched off high above ground, many wooden buildings might have withstood the actual blast but we won't know as they burned to the ground anyway). However, from chemistry class I remembered an explosion in a fertilizer plant ([http://www.bufata-chemie.de/reader/ig_farben/pics/1-4-3_01_oppau-big.jpg picture]) that was rated in kilotons. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oppau_explosion Wikipedia] speaks of 1-2kt and a 90x125m crater, which would be like 40x50 tiles in UFO scale. This explosion happened at ground level, the buildings were brick or concrete. Looking at the picture, I don't think any explosions in UFO, not even Blaster Bombs, are anywhere near kiloton scale. --[[User:Schnobs|Schnobs]] 10:51, 5 November 2007 (PST)

::::The values come from the [[wikipedia:Nuclear weapon yield|Wikipedia article about Nuclear Weapons Yield]]. On that page is an equation that can determine yield from blast radius and time after the start of the blast and a diagram of blast radius based on yield. In said diagram it lists the blast diameter of a 1 Megaton bomb (W59 - the Minuteman 1) at .96km - ie: 960 meters - and the blast radius of a 20 kiloton bomb ("Fat Man" - the "gun type" uranium fission device dropped on Nagasaki) at 48 meters. Note that this is the size of the fireball and not the damage radius caused by a nuclear weapons overpressure event.

::::The city of Hiroshima sits inside a natural "Bowl" or depression in the landscape. The "Little Boy" bomb is estimated to have only been 13 kilotons and the damage effect was multiplied because of the airburst (IIRC, "Little Boy" detonated some 100 feet about the ground) and the damage was magnified by the shockwave from the detonation reflecting off the hills surrounding the city. It was nearly the same for the higher yield "Fat Man" device that was used against Nagasaki. (In fact, if I remember my High School history classes correctly, it was the geography of the two locations that was the reason for them being chosen as targets).

::::In conclusion I'd like to say that I doubt that the reactor explosions themselves are nuclear in nature. It is much more likely that they originate from sources very similar to the cause of the explosion at Chernobyl. - [[User:Shadow|Shadow]] 15:30, 5 November 2007 (PST)

:While it doesn't change the ultimate conclusion of "not even a single unit detonating", I'd say any more then 1 meter per tile is being more then a bit generous. 2.26 meters suggests the average unit is over a meter and a half wide, and somewhere over three meters tall. Where did that value come from?! - [[User:Bomb Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] 22:29, 4 November 2007 (PST)

:::It came from [[User_talk:Danial|here]]. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 22:38, 4 November 2007 (PST)

::::Correct. [[User:Danial|Danial]] has estimated that each tile is approximately 2.26m2 on his [[User talk:Danial|talk page]]. I have no interest in this, really, other than of an academic nature, since it can be used to estimate the yield of the device that created the fireball. - [[User:Shadow|Shadow]] 15:30, 5 November 2007 (PST)

::::If [[User:Bomb Bloke|Bomb Blokes]] 1.6x1.6x2.4 meter size of a single tile is correct, then a Reactor has a blast diameter of 35.2 meters. Using the "Radius from Yield" equation of R = (Et2/ρ)1/5 we can solve to find the actual yield of the device. I'll run that equation later, but I'm estimating that the yield is less than 10 kilotons. - [[User:Shadow|Shadow]] 16:21, 5 November 2007 (PST)

::::Okay, assuming that the explosion is at sea-level (ρ = 1.2550kg/m3) and the explosion covers the entire 11 tile radius at the end of a TU (using [[User:Danial|Danials]] 1.71m/s speed estimate we can see that a TU is 18.7s based on the 20 tiles a soldier with 80TU's can cover) we can solve the above equation for bomb yield. (that is, E=R5ρ/t2) and arrive at a yield of about 6060.71 Joules of power - about 1.5 '''microtons'''. This seems to indicate that the estimate of the length of a TU is wrong, or that the explosion does not consume an entire TU. If we accept that the TU length is correct and that the explosion does not consume an entire TU - highly unlikely that an explosion would take 18.7 seconds to occur anyway - and run with a figure of 1/1000th of a TU (0.0187s for the explosion to occur) we find that the explosion is much more powerful 6060714855.6 J - or about 1.4 tons. And the figure will continue to rise the shorter the time-span for developing to that diameter is. - [[User:Shadow|Shadow]] 17:03, 5 November 2007 (PST)

::::Using [[User:Danial|Danials]] estimate of 2.26m per tile the result is a bit more — 34077375066.3 J - about 8.1 tons. - [[User:Shadow|Shadow]] 17:18, 5 November 2007 (PST)

::::Note: The Trinity test has been officially stated as having been 20 kilotons. Based on examination of the released videos of that blast [[wikipedia:Geoffrey Ingram Taylor|one scientist]] has calculated it's power at about [[wikipedia:Nuclear weapon yield#Calculating yields and controversy|22 kilotons]]. (The numbers he used were: R = 140m, t = 0.025, ρ = 1 - using those same numbers we can see that he arrived at a value of 86051840000000 J – about 20.6 kilotons) What the preceding means is that the above stated equation (E=R5ρ/t2 is correct :P - [[User:Shadow|Shadow]] 17:55, 5 November 2007 (PST)

::::Sadly, [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] has pointed out an error in my math regarding the length of a TU. I used the 20 tiles in 80 TU's as a base for the equation, multiplying the '20 tiles' by the distance of 1.6 meters per tile. However, I must have been out of my mind in reporting 18.7 seconds per TU. Running the numbers by hand (on a piece of paper!) I've found that 20*1.6*1.71 makes that 80 TU turn approximately 55 seconds long. Dividing that by the 80 TU's in said turn we find that each TU is about 0.69 seconds long. Re-running the above stated equation with the reactor detonation taking 1 TU and 1/1000th of a TU we get the following results:
::::* 1 TU: 3,572,876 J - not even 1 ton
::::* one thousandth of a TU: 3,572,875,919,360 - 854 tons
::::If we use [[User:Danial|Danials]] 2.26m per tile figure we find that 1 TU is 0.97 seconds long. Solving the above equation using the 2.26 meters and 0.97 seconds per TU figure we have the following numbers for the size of a reactor cores explosion:
::::* 1 TU: 10,302,987 J - again, not even 1 ton
::::* one thousandth of a TU: 10,302,987,085,467 J - 2.5 kilotons
::::As you can see, the size of a tile not only affects the length of a TU (0.69s for a 1.6mx1.6mx2.4m tile, 0.97s for a 2.26mx2.26mx2.4m tile) but also the apparent yield of a reactors explosion. Now, as noted before (I think I mentioned it anyway), 1 gram of matter converting to energy creates an explosion of around 20 kilotons. This means that, if a reactors explosion is nuclear in nature, it's using about 1/10th of a gram of Elerium to create the result.
::::Finally, I did forget to mention that the figure only applies if the reactor detonations fireball creates the 11 tile damage radius and it is not the result of other features of a nuclear detonation. - [[User:Shadow|Shadow]] 18:29, 5 November 2007 (PST)

:::::Stepping away from all previous figures and estimating a tile as being 1.71m2, and using the bog standard human walking rate of 1.71m/s we find that, since it takes a rookie an average of 4 TU's to cross one tile that a single TU is 1/4 of a second. Using that together with the above stated 1.71m2 tile size we get the following results:
:::::* 1TU: 37,675,928 J - about 0.009 tons
:::::* one thousandth of a TU: 37,675,928,185,077 - about 9 kilotons
:::::Again, this assumes that all the damage seen inside that 11 tile radius was caused by the fireball. - [[User:Shadow|Shadow]] 18:57, 5 November 2007 (PST)

::::::These "initial fireballs" are a somewhat artificial concept, allowing you to gauge the yield of a nuclear weapon. But equalling it to any distinguishable radius of destruction is nonsense. I suggest you refer to [[wikipedia:Effects of nuclear explosions#Direct effects]] instead. --[[User:Schnobs|Schnobs]]

:::::::I see your Wikipedia article and raise you the one that spawned the equation I used - [[wikipedia:Nuclear weapons yield#Calculating yields and controversy. I never said "Initial Fireball" and that isn't an "Artificial Concept". Each Nuclear Detonation creates a "Fireball" of varying size, simply because, in pure fission reactions, it causes the air to superheat and in Fusion reactions, because that is what the insanely hot, reacting plasma is - a mass of super-hot plasma. - [[User:Shadow|Shadow]] 19:23, 6 November 2007 (PST)

::::::::A value of 200m for the Nagasaki Bomb struck me as a trifle odd. Ain't that a bit small? Also, what's this talk about a precise fireball size? Shouldn't it just get larger and larger until it eventually dissipates? So, when exactly will the fireball have the stated size?

::::::::I therefore read that article and a followed a few source links (hint: each picture has an article of it's own). Apparently, the given size refers to the moment when the shock wave will overtake the plasma; the air at the shock front will be heavly compressed, hence also hot and bright, but nowhere as bright as the plasma; also, the shock front is incandescent, eclipsing the fireball inside (I'm really struggling for words here, I hope you still get what I'm trying to tell). It was me who called it an initial fireball because it happens after a few milliseconds. Check that Trinity photo -- it's dated 25ms and depicts the shockfront, not the fireball. Maybe I should have named it not "artificial but an "abstract" concept, though. But I still hold the opinion that it's too simple to equal the burst pattern on a UFO floor to the size the fireball happens to have by the time the shock front catches up. --[[User:Schnobs|Schnobs]] 14:14, 7 November 2007 (PST)

:::::::::Ah, okay. I can't argue with that. And you are right, that picture is from the moment when the shock front ovtertakes the plasma. If memory serves, it's the shock front that does the damage, so I'm probably wrong in the figures, although thinking about it, there is no real way to apply the equation in the manner that I did. At that, it might be impossible to apply it at all.

:::::::::As to the small size of the fireball from both the Fat Man and Little Boy devices, you have to remember that both Hiroshima and Nagaski are located in natural depressions in the terrain. They are something like bowls, low plains surrounded by hills and mountains. The shock front was powerful enough that, when they contacted the surrounding terrain, they reflected back into the bowl. So the cities were destroyed by more than the initial shockwave and fireball - they got hit by the shockwave at least twice. And the area directly under "Ground Zero" (both bombs were air burst - Fat Man had a radar proximity trigger) got hit even worse, because it was caught by the shockwave and used as a reflector for the shockwave. - [[User:Shadow|Shadow]] 07:42, 8 November 2007 (PST)

::::::::::If you absolutely want to gauge the yield of a power source explosion, I suggest you compare it to the damage done by something we know. How many grenades stacked on top of each other would it take to damage the UFO interior (walls & floor) in the way a power source explosion does? Then look up the amount of explosives in a typical hand grenade and there you go. As to fireball size... there's an old saying, comparing arguments like this to the paralympics. Yet I can not resist.

::::::::::a) the size stated in that wikipedia article is by no means the final size. It's not as if the fireball would reach a certain size and suddenly vanish. It grows ever larger and starts to rise, becoming the cap of the mushroom cloud (by then it's no longer a ball and merely glowing, of course). Defining the fireball size as "the size at the moment when the shockwave catches up with the fireball" is somewhat arbitrary, but you've got to draw the line somewhere. And this definition refers to a time when it's still most certainly a ball, and it'S size directly related to the yield of the bomb (that is to say, other factors like terrain, wind, air pressure, moisture etc are relatively insignificant). That's alright for an article that deals with yield (as in kt or MT equivalents); damage is something else entirely, covered in another article.
::::::::::b) "Overtaking" sounds as if the shockwave would start somewhere inside the fireball, but of course the shockwave is not a seperate effect. It's the result of all the superheated air trying to expand rapidly. Some sources say the shockwave "detaches from" the fireball, which seems more apt.
::::::::::c) I guess you've misunderstood the Mach Stem: the reflected shock front moves faster in air that has already been accelerated by the main shock front; the reflected front will therefore catch up and combine with the main shock front, reinforcing it. ([http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild:Mach_effect_sequence.png diagram]). That's reinforcement, not amplification: the shock wave will not become more forceful because of the Mach effect, but it will lose power at a slower rate (which means same damage over a larger area). Please note that the development of the Mach Stem does not depend on any terrain features (in fact, a flat surface may be as good as it gets). In the past few days I've read more than I ever wanted to know about nuclear explosions, but all sources go along the lines that the valley at Nagasaki served to confine the damage, not a single word about reinforcement or amplification. Maybe destruction in the valley was so complete that a possible reinforcement would have made no difference any more. --[[User:Schnobs|Schnobs]] 13:42, 8 November 2007 (PST)
:Great armchair discussion, folks. Now if only you could bring some biology into it, I might jump in. Re: the indentation, I think the [[Talk:Main_Page#Discussion.2Ftalk_page_proposed_format|general idea]] is to only indent about 4-6 levels deep, then reset back to one. Also - and I hope I don't seem picky here, I love the flow of ideas - it seems like sometimes super and subscripting might be used better. A simple e.g. "m/s" is acceptable for meters per second, and sometimes it seems like e.g. "R = (Et2/ρ)1/5" might better be R = (Et2/ρ)1/5. On my PC, the extra super- and sub-scripting seems to be messing with line overlap.
:All that aside, please keep going! It's an interesting reality check, to check back from e.g. the damage of a standard grenade, to back-evaluate the damage caused. One crazy thing about X-COM explosions is how they have "hard wired" edges, as seen in e.g. [[Explosions#Playing_With_Fire]]. That's hard to figure into the parlor computations. The standard grenade is the only explosive that does not have "artificial clipping" of its blast radius performed. - [[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]] 17:04, 9 November 2007 (PST)

Wow, never would have guessed that me being bored on a train and trying to kill time by this would start such a long discussion. Well... nice :)
- tequilachef

Just in passing, maybe the reason continents don't evaporate when UFOs crash is the same reason there's not a mile-wide crater at Chernobyl - a nuclear meltdown is really nasty, but it doesn't turn the reactor into a bomb. And as for its use in explosives? How much of the material is used to create the bang and how much is used to control the bang? Even a gram of matter converted to energy can level a city - not really a weapon you wanna fire wildly in an atmosphere. - Kalaong

:To be more specific, my theory is that a [[UFO Power Source]] uses Elerium to generate antimatter in a controlled manner(like Bob Lazar's theorizes), and to generate the anti-gravity field that keeps the UFO flying. Plasma weapons are the same - the Elerium provides energy to generate the plasma, then uses an anti-gravity field to keep the plasma from dissipating as it flies across the battlefield. Fusion weapons(the stuff that goes boom) are the odd man out - they generate anti-matter in an ''out-of-control'' manner and use the anti-gravity field to ''control'' the resulting explosion. In other words, Elerium(In the game! I don't wanna sound like a conspiracy-obsessed geek, just your garden variety geek!) is like nuclear material-plus. You have to encourage it to make all that energy, and when you stop encouraging it, it only has a relatively small tantrum. You have to get really creative to make use Elerium as a Weapon of Mass ''Annihilation''. The aliens(And X-COM!) purposely limit the destructive potential of Elerium-based munitions and technology, despite this lowering the efficiency of the rare element. Otherwise a single [[Blaster Bomb]] would kill a city, leaving nothing for the aliens to abduct - or X-COM to protect. It's also why losing the [[Cydonia]] mission ends the game - the aliens could have reduced the Earth to beaded glass at any time,
but never consider it until their home base is threatened.

i recall vaugely that 70% of reacted antimatter becomes neutrinos in an incredibly short time frame--[[User:(name here)|(name here)]] 14:34, 13 March 2008 (PDT)

P.S. I was hoping somebody with a giant brain would come by and critique me like they did the above stuff? My knowledge of nuclear physics is pretty much limited to the contents of the Wikipedia article and Winchell Chung's "Atomic Rockets" website. - Kalaong 17:51, 11 March 2008 (EDT)

::I've just mentioned this discussion on the [[Talk:Main Page]]. I think it would be great if you guys made a page trying to explain how Elerium would act on the real world, using all those nice scientific formulas and commentaries. - [[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 23:35, 10 March 2008 (PDT)

----

Funnily enough the main page does not seem to have the in-game UFOPaedia entry :

This element has the unusual property of generating anti-matter power when bombarded with certain particles. This creates gravity waves and other forms of energy. It is not naturally found in our solar system, and cannot be reproduced. 

This doesn't say anything about the efficiency of the anti-matter conversion (if that's the process it works by). Is that stated elsewhere?

I would challenge the energy calculations done on the Avenger. We have no idea of the drag coefficient of the aircraft though we could take a guess at something similar to an SR-71 Blackbird (which was no doubt built with scraps scavenged from Roswell). And how exactly did we guess the weight of the Avenger? But that's a minor point, much more to the point is that the alien craft fly by non-Newtonian mechanics - bending gravity waves. Calculating the energy that would be required to do the same motion using Newtonian mechanics does not let you deduce the energy required to do it with Elirium-based anti-gravity. Presumably the point of anti gravity, warp drives, wormholes & the like is precisely that they allow you to get more motion for less energy. How much less, we don't know.

On the other hand, serious physicists could calculate the amount of energy required to bend gravity waves. In Einsteinian terms the amount of mass-energy is immense - you would be much better of just building a big jet/rocket thingy and flying the plane the old fashioned way. So it looks like the alien engines are non-Einsteinian as well as non-Newtonian. Once the antigravity field is working, they might well run on the equivalent of a nine volt battery or the body heat of the operator's hands. Or psi energy.

So I don't think we can deduce much from the mechanics of Avenger flight. If anything, it is a maximum limit on Elirium energy (unless alien tech is LESS efficient than human tech).

What about the argument from weapon and engine explosions? As was noted, weapons are not engines and engines are not weapons. Not by design anyway. If Elerium really was as dangerous as antimatter, it would make sense to 'nobble' Elerium weapons and make them weaker. My take on it is that Elerium is a material which generates microscopic amounts of antimatter, and/or gravity waves, when exposed to exotic particles. The antimatter flux could be orders of magnitude smaller than the particle flux. As the Elerium is used, it goes bad, becomes unusable. It's not necessarily all converted to energy, it's just turned into a useless lump that won't generate antimatter or gravity waves any more.

A good suggestion was to look at the observed effects of the weapons and deduce back from that an equivalent amount of pure conversion. As the Elerium weapons and even the spaceship explosions are small potatoes, even compared to crude fission weapons, we are not talking about converting all the Elerium into energy via E=mc2.

I don't believe the Elerium engine is a volatile antimatter rocket tottering on the brink of explosion. Imagine the scene: A pyramid on Mars. Enthusiastic Sectoid Chief Engineer is bouncing up and down with glee. He has just invented a new type of drive for travelling to alien planets and harvesting their bounty. It's super efficient, incredibly powerful, and just has one slight drawback. A little bit of damage, such as might be sustained from the crude weapons of the primitive humans, can cause the engines to become unstable and explode with supernova force at some random time after the damage. Perhaps after they have teetered in to crash land back at Cydonia base. Right next to the Holy Temple of Our Beloved Brain. Oops...

A swift but lifelong trip to the Pit of Psychic Torment for our intrepid Chief Engineer, methinks. And back to the drawing board. The fact is that dangerous engines will be designed with built in failsafes. And their design will in any event be very different from a weapon or a bomb in the basic principles. In our early years playing with jets and rockets, we humans had trouble telling them from bombs. They still have some similarities when they go wrong but they are different. So anyway I don't think we can deduce anything from the explosions of power sources other than to say they are either low powered, or well dampened by failsafes, or maybe both.

In conclusion my bid for 'what is 1 Elerium' is that it weighs exactly what the game says it ways, and after being exposed to 'certain particles' for a while to produce nanoscopic amounts of antimatter and copious amounts of other exotic things, the Elerium is 'burned out' and a useless inert husk of roughly the same weight.
[[User:Spike|Spike]] 14:38, 24 March 2008 (PDT)

:Fairly good arguments. As for your question, the description for the UFO Power Source does indeed claim the efficiency of Elerium; it says the UFO Power Source converts elerium directly into antimatter with 99% efficiency. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 15:21, 24 March 2008 (PDT)

Thanks, and thanks for the help AQ! Looking at that UFOPaedia entry for UFO Power Source (maybe we should have both entries in the main article?), the wording is compatible with the idea that not all the matter is converted into energy. A small amount could be converted at 99% (the part that is struck by the tiny amount of antimatter generated by the Elerium), and the rest of the Elerium is inert. Or indeed the 'reaction matter' might be some other matter (hydrogen for example), and not the Elerium at all - the Elerium may just be the antimatter source, and not the source of the 'reaction matter'. I'm using reaction matter in a different sense than when we talk about rockets and 'reaction mass'. Think of the anti matter as the flame and the matter as the fuel (wood, coal, plutonium, lithium, etc). Or to use another analogy, Elerium is like the platinum catalyst in the mythical Cold Fusion powerplant. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 15:38, 24 March 2008 (PDT)

:That's entirely possible, IMO. It should be noted that any reactor with a 100% efficiency rating of energy production would violate Newton's Second Law of Thermodynamics, and as such, would demolish a good deal of our current scientific understanding. Not that it's not impossible; the programmers just probably thought it would be a good idea to avoid anything incredibly earth-shattering, science-wise. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 16:24, 24 March 2008 (PDT)

==About Elerium mining...==
Re the "mining near Cydonia" issue. As per the UFOpedia:

"It is not naturally found in our solar system and cannot be reproduced."

However, in X-Com 3, [[Transtellar]] mines the stuff from Mars (and brings back regular shipments). Therefore, there must be a reserve near Cydonia.

While there is no official explanation, a meteorite seems to be the most likely cause of this.

- [[User:Bomb Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] 21:41, 31 May 2007 (PDT)

:My apologies. I do not have access to X-Com: Apocalypse, and was basing my data merely on what was said in the game. In light of the new information, it can be reverted if you desire. `[[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 21:56, 31 May 2007 (PDT)

::It could also be the wreckage of alien craft and structures destroyed during the cydonia attack. they might have had a squadron of defensive ships which went down somewhat intact, maybe shattering inactive ships on the ground. add in elerium in the weapons and armor of the ground troops which was left behind, and you'd have quite a lot of it underground.--[[User:(name here)|(name here)]] 09:57, 28 April 2008 (PDT)

After the events of XCOM, the last Elerium deposit was loaded into an Avenger to return to Cydonia for Elerium. The crew didn't found anything. After TFTD, conventional ships have been sent to Mars and detected a huge Elerium deposit several hundred kilometres from Cydonia, possibly stashed in the first war. Using that reserve, ship research skyrocketed, leading to development of faster-than-light engines. In addition, Interceptor (XCOM 4) says that, during the third war in the Frontier, scientists have eventually managed to create E-115 artificially.

- amitakartok

==Chuck Norris?==
There is a grave error on this page: Chuck Norris is GOD! He can't be killed ;) [[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 14:01, 11 March 2008 (PDT)
: What about if Steven Seagal, Bruce Lee and Mike Tyson ganged up on him and jumped him from behind after he'd had a few beers at the end of a hard day defending America from evil drug lords? [[User:Spike|Spike]] 16:41, 11 March 2008 (PDT)
::This is entertainingly silly, but now has nothing to do with the game. Start theorizing on how said demigods would fare against Mutons or ''somebody's'' going to have to delete this thread;)! Kalaong 16:28 13 March 2008 (EDT)
::: Mutons would be able to crush Chuck Norris beneath their endless legions of sucky terror units
:::: If one of X-COM's soldiers was Chuck Norris, he would have a Melee attack with a strength of about 60, requiring 10% TUs per attack. His stats (including firing accuracy) would be maxed out. However I like to believe that Bruce Lee's Melee damage would be nearer to 200, allowing him to punch through UFO doors. (Are we back on topic now?) [[User:Spike|Spike]] 15:23, 13 March 2008 (PDT)

[[Image:X-COMChuckNorris.png]]

::::: The reason why Mutons are green is because they used to be red (like in the game introduction) but they turned to that colour the first time they saw Chuck Norris. [[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 16:51, 13 March 2008 (PDT)
:::::: Exxxcellent. Smithers, hire that man as my personal bodyguard and send whatshisname the Safety Inspector from Sector 7-G to Cydonia in his place>;PPPP Kalaong 1:30 14 March 2008 (EDT)

==See Also==

[[Elirium]]

Engaging the Enemy (Apocalypse)

2008-04-20T01:16:13Z

(name here):

Talk:Council of Funding Nations

2008-04-15T21:42:16Z

(name here):

Very interesting discussion! On the question of membership, perhaps membership of the CFN is similar to to membership of the European Space Agency or the Large Hadron Collider project. In other words, not a question of eligibility (like the UN) but simply a coalition of the willing. In short, the funding nations are simply those who were willing to pay. Of course, in exchange for their contribution they get a share in the spoils, preferential protection (reflected in the score & funding mechanics) and the power to set the rules of engagement.

On the legalities, perhaps the CFN adopted an earlier preceedent set by one of its members and defined UFO occupants ans craft as "illegal enemy combatants" and, as such, not subject to the laws or norms of war nor to civil protection. X-COM's apparent licence to destroy real estate with impunity and risk civilians in the crossfire is harder to explain. I expect a large and hidden part of X-COM's funding is tied up in expensive insurance, compensation, & hush money schemes.

[[User:Spike|Spike]] 14:08, 11 March 2008 (PDT)

== Quid pro quo ==

Politics is never disinterested. In return for their financial contributions, the funding council nations received agreed material benefits:

:1. Exclusive access to the spoils of operational missions at agreed, stable prices. X-COM could not auction the proceeds to the highest market bidder. Instead, proceeds were allocated to each nation in strict rotation. In the allocation of artefacts, each country's funding level determined both the precedence of allocation and the quantity of artefacts received. Once allocated the funding nations were free to trade or sell items to other FCN members, but not to other nations or the market. Clauses of the charter reserved to the FCN the right to act as a cartel and sell any collectively agreed surplus to the wider world, splitting the proceeds according to funding contributions.

:2 All funding nations, equally, received all information gleaned from the project, including technologies. Nations were free to exploit this technology for internal use, but not to sell information or technology. Any manufactured goods sold would be subject to a royalty payable to the FCN and disbursed according to funding contributions.

:3 Lastly, all nations received preferential protective treatment from X-COM forces, governed by a detailed technical appendix to the charter known as the Security Commitment Objectives - Resource Engagement (SCORE).

[[User:Spike|Spike]] 15:19, 11 March 2008 (PDT)

=5th Geneva Convention=
[Warning: Fiction! Speculation on background, not canonical!]

Convention V "Relative to the Covert Response to Exogenous Security Threats"

Declassified version, released 2023

Fifth Geneva Convention; Geneva, Helvetic Republic, 19 December 1998

==Article 1==

Whereas it has become necessary for the governments of this Earth to join together for their
collective defence in the face of [classified], this Convention is hereby promulgated to
regulate their joint endeavour.

==Article 2==

It is hereby declared and agreed that the exogenous threats, by nature of their [classified]
and their demonstrated capacity for [classified], shall enjoy no protection under
international law, including but not limited to the succeeding items.

==Article 3==

Conventions I, II, III and IV are hereby abrogated with respect to the [classified]
personnel or [classified].

==Article 4==

The Hague Conventions of 1899 and 1907, and the Geneva Protocol of 1925, shall not apply to
responses to the exogenous threat. For avoidance of doubt this includes any fragmentation,
incendiary, chemical, biological, radiological, [classified], or [classified] weapon. Furthermore the nations wheresoever qualified reserve the
option to delegate their right under Article IV.1 of the Nuclear Non Proliferation Treaty,
1969, to forces operating under authority of this convention in the event of a significant
[classified], [classified], or other situation deemed to [classified].

==Article 5==

[classified] personnel or [classified] are illegal enemy combatants and are not entitled to
the protection of any of the laws, customs or conventions of war, nor the protection of
norms of civil and legal processes. Clearly, the notion of human rights is not applicable to
[classified].

==Article 6==

International and domestic laws, norms and customs of maritime and aircraft navigation, prize law, arrest and interception of shipping (or aircraft) are
not applicable to [classified], or any [classified] vessels, [classified], craft or other
vehicles.

==Article 7==

Military, investigative, paramilitary, diplomatic, scientific, technical, medical, [classified] or [classified] personnel or forces acting under authority of this convention
shall not be held liable in any jurisdiction, court, tribunal or arbitration process for any
action directly or indirectly taken against exogenous threat personnel, [classified] or [classified] provided such action is conducted in accordance with the wider intent of this convention.

==Article 8==

Signatory governments commit to indemnify and save harmless any military, paramilitary and
[classified] forces acting under authority of this convention in respect of any claimed or
actual damages, lawsuit or [classified] arising from actions undertaken under authority of
this convention, howsoever [classified], including but not limited to [classified], except
in clear cases of gross and deliberate negligence.

==Article 9==

International and domestic laws pertaining to the treatment or welfare of domestic,
agricultural, laboratory and experimental animals or [classified] shall not apply to
operations or activities carried out during or in direct or indirect support of actions
authorised by this convention, nor to [classified].

==Article 10==

The adminstration, interpretation and operation of the powers embodied in this convention
shall be conducted by a Council of the signatory funding nations, exercising a vote
proportionate to their agreed funding level and in the absence of consensus, by simple
majority vote. The Council is hereby empowered to make any further required regulations or directives for operation of the executive, command, operational and material implementation of this convention, without further reference to the signatory funding nations. The Council shall remain the final arbiter and interpreting authority of the meaning of the convention.

==Article 11==

The creation, operation, maintenance and funding of such executive, command, operational and
material means as are required to conduct the functions enabled by this convention are hereby
authorised. The continuing existence and funding of the executive, command, operational and
material forces in being is to be subject to a periodic vote of the council established
under Article 10.

==Article 12==

Signatory nations shall use all means consistent with their internal laws and executive
powers of government to preserve at all times and at all costs, including [classified] or if
necessary [classified], the necessarily covert nature of this convention and all
operations, institutions, activities and [classified] arising from its execution.

==Article 13==

[Classified]

[[User:Spike|Spike]] 16:30, 11 March 2008 (PDT)

== Countries withdrawing from the CFN ==

Just a thought that occurred to me while reading this. There should be something touching on CFN groups that have chosen to withdraw still having certain obligations that are required of them (or even loss of some rights previously enjoyed). Just a few that I can think off the bat include:

* They are still required to maintain the secrecy of the project.
* X-Com still has exclusive rights to construct bases and operate in their territory as they see fit.

It makes me wonder, are withdrawing countries shifting their loyalty over to the aliens, or are they just turning a blind eye to the whole affair and just not caring what happens one way or the other?

- [[User:NKF|NKF]] 23:56, 11 March 2008 (PDT)

:yes definitely should be residual obligations as you say. I agree that non membership is for a variety of reasons, such as not taking the alien threat seriously, not believing in XCom's ability, not wanting to provoke the aliens, etc. And even many of the funding countries may be playing a double game, supporting XCom while they see which way the wind blows and keeping their options open with the aliens: no doubt the aliens offer many inducements to cooperate: computer technology, lasers, stealth aircraft, cellular telephones, plasma-based consumer entertainment systems...

[[User:Spike|Spike]] 02:41, 12 March 2008 (PDT)

==Canon vs. fanfiction==

My idea is more to analise the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_%28fiction%29 Canon] of the X-COM universe rather than to write more
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_fiction Fan fiction] like the Data Canisters, or the V Geneva Convention above (nice piece of work in any case). The difference between both can be seen on Spike's Qui Pro Quo section (which I added to the CFN page) and the V Convention. The difference between both is that on the first there's just an analysis and comparision to the real life and how it would using the current laws of physics/politics/etc. The V Convention is a step forward, namely creating a fictionalized treaty (or fan fiction) that does not belong to the canon of the X-COM series.

I've based my idea of the Technical Commentaries on the [http://www.theforce.net/swtc/ Star Wars Technical Commentaries] page. The author describes his work as: 'This hobby simply uses the methods and language of science to consider the question: “If the STAR WARS universe were real, how would its phenomena be understood?”'. The fact that it does not has fan fiction has even rated it a link on Wikipedia.

To be honest, I think that a lot of material on the UFOPaedia suffers from the 'fan fiction' syndrome: the authors thought it was OK to expand the canon of the original series a bit and give their own personal perspective (some examples: description of combat scenes while talking about soldiers or planes). I have nothing against fanfiction (namely since I've written quite a bit of it based on X-COM), but that is not canon and it should have its own space and not to be included in articles related to the game.

After saying this, I'd just like to add that there is a lot of background work regarding this V Convention, on the possible nature of the agreement that can be presented as a technical commentary. The key here is present and discuss theory, like NKF's comments regarding the withdrawl from the treaty. - [[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 07:28, 12 March 2008 (PDT)

:Ok Hobbes I understand your distinction, and I agree. as you noted,the 5th Convention is a fictional hypothesis to work through some of the analysis. But of course it is fictional in form as well as in part of its content. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 11:22, 12 March 2008 (PDT)

: I really like the stuff from this article, but isn't UFOpaedia supposed to just cover canon? The realistic approach is nice, but I think that perhaps you might want to consider adding a disclaimer somewhere that some of this stuff is what you wrote yourself, and isn't contained in the actual game. -[[User:Conrad Gray|Conrad Gray]] 23:27, 12 April 2008 (PDT)

==Other excluded nations?==
The excellent analysis of the nations that are on the UNSC/G8+5 but not on the CFN got me thinking about other nations that weren't included. My guess is that the developers of the game probably just picked whichever nations seemed good. Regardless, I want to continue this exercise a bit more, since I'm a politics junkie.

Now, keep in mind that this is all from a late '90s perspective, which I guess could explain why Pakistan would be a viable nation to be considered (as Hobbes mentioned), since back then, it was a democracy and I don't think it was as angry at India, or as unstable as it is now. I think we can think of some other developed/militarily strong nations that aren't in the canonical CFN. Take Israel, for example. It's in a region that wasn't covered very much, and has a very powerful military and intelligence force, and there are even Israeli members in Rainbow Six. My guess for why they were excluded is that they're simply too controversial. No one would want to bring the Israel/Arab divide into the anti-alien crusade. So relatively powerful and moderate Egypt is in the CFN instead, though I think Turkey would have been a better choice. Much of this also explains why Taiwan was not a member.

: Well, one of the main criteria is the geographical allocations of the UNSC. Israel should belong to the Asia bloc but its membership has been vetoed by the Arab nations and until 2000 could not even be elected to the UNSC (on that year it was partially admitted to the Western bloc). Turkey isn't an Arab country and also belongs to the Western bloc, while Taiwan has lost UN membership as the People's Republic of China assumed the international representation of China on the UN back in the 70s (plus only a few countries internationally recognize the Republic of China instead of the PRC). - [[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 17:51, 14 April 2008 (PDT)

Also, here's a fanfiction idea: what if Mossad discovered X-COM or the alien threat, and decided to create its own anti-alien force independent on the world's war effort? Anyone read World War Z?

: I think Israel (and the rest of the world) would be secretly informed of X-COM's existence and would have allowed, or tolerated its activities. It could be well possible for Israel to engage on its own anti-alien activities, although due to its smaller size it would have to covertly operate in other nations of the Middle East, which might cause a lot of incidents and a military escalation with its Arab neighbours. - [[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 17:51, 14 April 2008 (PDT)

Another idea is to consider the biggest contributors to the armed real-life branch of the U.N.: the Peacekeeping Forces. However, if you check out the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peacekeeping Wikipedia article] you'll find out that there's a lot of controversy as well, since many of the contributing nations are not particularly well-developed: "Despite the large number of contributors, the greatest burden continues to be borne by a core group of developing countries. The 10 main troop-contributing countries to UN peacekeeping operations as of March 2007 were Pakistan (10,173), Bangladesh (9,675), India (9,471), Nepal (3,626), Jordan (3,564), Uruguay (2,583), Italy (2,539), Ghana, Nigeria and France." -[[User:Conrad Gray|Conrad Gray]] 23:43, 12 April 2008 (PDT)

: From the Wikipedia article there are 2 main reasons for that to happen: the presence of developed countries armed forces may evoke remembrances of imperialism, plus the financial incentive to developing countries since they get paid for each soldier they send. Plus, peacekeeping does not require technological advanced armed forces and the contributions are made voluntary. There isn't an 'armed real-life branch' of the UN (it would imply recruiting, training, equipping and basing such forces) but temporary national forces deployed on the interest of the contributing nations. - [[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 17:51, 14 April 2008 (PDT)

== Secrecy? ==

Does anyone think any other national governments besides the CFN countries and Switzerland knew about the alien threat and X-COM? I'd like to think that they were pretty much left out of the loop. The idea of a huge multinational military force sanctioned by a cabal of the most powerful nations of the U.N., fighting aliens and creating advanced weapons from their technology, would probably cause as much panic as if the secret was revealed to the entire general public. -[[User:Conrad Gray|Conrad Gray]] 00:01, 13 April 2008 (PDT)

:I would presume they'd all know. There is simply no way to hide the war from anyone with effective radar or aircraft. Nor is there a way to hide the battles occuring in populated areas without the help of the local government.--[[User:(name here)|(name here)]] 14:42, 15 April 2008 (PDT)

Androids (Apocalypse)

2008-04-15T20:25:41Z

(name here):

Androids are very tough. They are the best at the physical stats and completely immune to psionics. although they will eventually be surprassed by human soliders, their immunity to psionics and brainsuckers is not to be underestimated. Use them at every oppertunity. Creating all android squads has it's advantages and disadvantages, but usually a mixed force of humans, hybrids and androids is more versatile and effective. additionally, they are only surpassed by human soldiers who survive a very long time. this is a rare occurance among human soldiers.

Talk:Real-Time vs Turn-Based (Apocalypse)

2008-04-15T11:10:36Z

(name here):

== Dual weild in TB ==

Technically you can dual wield and fire pairs of weapons in TB by using the shift-LMB approach to firing the selected agent's weapons. The game alternates between the weapons (not sure if it's a left, right, left, right alternations or if the off-hand weapon is fired at specific intervals).

I don't know if there any benefits to doing it this way (like decreased costs), but I just thought I'd point that out. You're still probably better off with a single weapon, unless you want every other shot to be a special round such as stun bolt or toxigun round.

Also, though I'm generally a RT player, I do have a few comments. RT is generally a faster play then TB (since they programmers neglected to include any time compression settings ala X-Com's first two games). I've also seen a lot of players mention that TB is quite an ideal environment for capturing aliens (tough ones like Megaspawn for example). It can be just as easy in RT, but with the freedom you get with the amount of time you get to make and execute your plans, I really can't argue with that. It's also a great mode to hot-seat co-op with a friend!

-[[User:NKF|NKF]] 23:05, 14 April 2008 (PDT)

*I think stun gas works better in TB. i've noticed that almost anything weaker than a multiworm in a TB gas cloud drops, but the RT gas cloud is not nearly so effective.--[[User:(name here)|(name here)]] 04:10, 15 April 2008 (PDT)

Security Station (Apocalypse)

2008-04-14T22:53:39Z

(name here): New page: A security station is equipped with a number of laser weapons. it has a raised platform that they are attached to. they only fire in real-time mode, but can destroy an attack on the base. ...

A security station is equipped with a number of laser weapons. it has a raised platform that they are attached to. they only fire in real-time mode, but can destroy an attack on the base. only rocket launchers have been observed to destroy the weapon system, although i would presume devestator cannons and alien explosives will as well.

Squad Composition and Tactics

2008-03-30T20:30:05Z

(name here):

Soldiers in X-COM are flexible generic soldiers with no pre-assigned role or duties attached to them. Despite this, they will eventually fall into a variety of roles depending on tactical needs.

Until soldiers hit super-soldier status where they can do anything, they will generally fall into particular roles specializing in scouting, sniping, heavy weapons, psionic support, rear commander, etc. There is a lot of overlap between many of these roles, so there's a great degree of flexibility available to you.

The choice of role will largely be dependent on the soldiers' initial stats. However, a soldier's role can change and may change several times in the course of a single battle.

== Assigning Roles ==

The following sections describe some common roles that your soldiers will fall under, along with some scenarios and tips for these roles.

=== Scouts ===

After securing the landing zone during deployment (making sure all nearby aliens are killed, and establishing a front line), you should expand the secured zone using scouts (see [[Sweeping the Battlescape]]). Some commanders prefer using trained scouts (high [[Reactions]] and [[TU]]s); others prefer cannon fodder (poor stats). Aliens will often shoot from unseen locations, making high stats irrelevant, and even a soldier with terrible stats can take advantage of the [[Reaction fire triggers#mutual_surprise|mutual surprise rule]].

[[Heavy_Weapons_Platforms|Tanks]] make excellent scouts due to their high mobility (70 or 100 TUs, depending on the type) and relative hardiness. They are also easily replaced, unlike veteran troops. However, in the early part of the game, funds are very limited, and replacing a few rookies is far less expensive than replacing a tank.

In terms of equipment, the key is to keep the scout light but functional, so weapons such as Laser Pistol may come in useful for rapidly clearing terrain on most levels either so the scout can move through it, or check there is nothing behind a wall or hedge. HE and Smoke Grenades also tend to be useful, along with Motion Detectors, but items like heavy weapons and First Aid kits are best left to the troops following up where needed.

The soldiers at the front of the transport must perform scout duties during deployment, which is probably the highest-risk stage of combat. Throwing a [[Smoke Grenade]] at the base of the ramp before deploying helps to reduce this risk (do not deploy until Turn 2, after the grenade has detonated). For soldiers with flight capability, it may be also a good idea to deploy a second smoke grenade on the equipment pile to provide a screen if they don't intend to deploy at ramp level.

If alien(s) are visible from the front of the transport, they should be killed immediately.

The order on the Soldier screen back at base determines the order of troop placement in the transport. It is unfortunate to have a highly-skilled veteran at the front of the craft, where they are most likely to get killed. One strategy to prevent this is to reserve the first 6-8 soldiers on the list for base defense duty. As your front-most troops gain experience, you can assign these reserves to the transport; they will be placed up front.

[[XcomUtil]] can be used to rearrange the order of your troops.

=== Spotters ===

Ideally a role already covered by Scouts, a Spotter is any unit on the front-line that braves the unknown to locate enemy targets. They are primarily used in observational roles, and never engage the enemy unless they really have to.

=== Snipers ===

[[Scouting|Scout/Sniper tactics]] are among the most effective tactics in the entire game. Although it is desirable to have snipers with high [[Firing Accuracy]], any soldier which can safely fire upon an alien from beyond visual range is a good sniper.

If your squad has a mix of low- and high-power weapons (generally [[Laser Rifle]]s, [[Heavy Plasma]]s) and [[Rocket Launcher]]s, give the best weapons to the troops with the highest Firing Accuracy.

=== Heavy weapons ===

A heavy weapon's specialist consists of a soldier with high strength levels, allowing the use of heavy weapons like the [[Rocket Launcher]] or throwing [[High Explosive]] packs with ease.

Although you do not need high strength to operate heavy weapons, high strength will help negate [[TU#Encumbrance|encumbrance]] penalties and increase throwing distance.

In the early game, heavy weapons duty should be restricted to soldiers that have 40+ [[Strength]]. A loaded [[Rocket Launcher]] with 3 Heavy Rockets weighs 42 units total (see [[TU#Encumbrance|Encumbrance]] and [[Item Weights]]).

Heavy weapons generally involve damage on a wide area of effect. This makes them good for [[Destroying Terrain|clearing terrain]] and for attacking heavily-armored units such as [[Cyberdisc]]s.

In the later game, your heavy weapons units will probably carry [[Blaster Launcher]]s. [[Rear Commander]]s make effective Blaster troops.

Although not strictly a "heavy weapon", equipping two or more soldiers with a [[Small Launcher]] during the stage of the game when you are trying to capture an alien Navigator, Leader, or Commander is highly recommended (see [[Research#The Minimum Three]]). It can also be used as an incredibly effective anti-large terror unit weapon on the easier difficulty levels.

In open terrain (desert, tundra, not very densely populated rural areas) it may be a good tactic to equip a soldier with a flying suit, rocket launcher and possibly more rockets than they can normally carry. Once the perimeter outside the ship has been secured, the soldier can drop surplus rockets on the ground, then rise to maximum altitude and be used as extremely efficient sniper for even quite long distances - the downward angle causes that most rockets that miss the target hit the ground within a few squares away, catching the enemy in the explosion. Once the soldier runs out of rockets, he can land, resupply and take off again.

=== Mind Probe Operators ===

A support role that is commonly performed by reserve troops that are left in the [[Skyranger]]. Any soldier in the safety of the ship can operate a [[Mind Probe]] to read the vital statistics of any alien spotted in the field.

Probe operators are made redundant when well trained psi-troopers are available.

=== Grenadier ===

A variant of the Heavy Weapon specialist, a grenadier is entrusted a large number of grenades than usual (or as many as the grenadier can carry). This role sets out to exploit the grenade's indirect attack ability to its fullest. Strength is the primary stat to consider, as this controls throwing distance.

This role is very effective when fighting in the open at clearing terrain or attacking groups of enemies. Grenadiers are unfortunately limited in close quarters, but can still be useful for attacking enemies around corners.

In addition to a wide selection of grenades, a grenadier is often armed with a light sidearm like a [[Laser Pistol]] as a fall-back weapon when exhausting all the grenades or for emergencies where a floating enemy cannot be hit by an explosion. Good protection is also recommended to allow for close range detonations.

A support-role variant of the grenadier is the lighting grenadier, where grenades are substituted for light 'grenades' - i.e. [[Electro-flare]]s.

=== Medic ===

A medic is a valuable support role for tending to soldiers that are wounded or unconscious.

A medic is generally and additional role than a role of its own. Any soldier that just so happens to be carrying a [[Medi-Kit]] is a field medic, as soldiers cannot use the kit on themselves.

If a soldier is in a critically wounded state and has fallen unconscious, a medic needs to tend to the soldier immediately. If the medic is too far away, and time is not on your side, the medic can employ a variant of the [[Grenade Relay]] to get the kit into the hands of a soldier that is closer to the patient.

=== Anti-Psionic Soldiers ===

Also commonly known as Psi-Sponges.

Before soldiers can be screened scientifically, they can still be equipped to combat psionics. This applies to soldiers who have not been tested in psionic scenarios or have been shown to be weak against psionic attack. These troops can still be valuable. Anti-psionic soldiers absorb psionic attacks that would otherwise assail stronger minds and eventually panic them, and can even kill the psionic alien themselves if for some reason it loses control over them. This also works best if armor is available for all troops.

If there are '''unarmored soldiers''', only give psi-weak soldiers stun rods and smoke grenades. Alternatively, one or more of these soldiers can operate as a heavy weapons crew, as long as the psi-weak trooper is not holding a weapon with ammo at the end of a turn. Other weapons can be handled in this way, but it reduces squad mobility unless two or more can work together, tossing equipment around to each other.

If everyone has ''at least'' '''personal armor''', only give psi-weak soldiers standard pistols or incendiary ammunition. These weapons are effective against Sectoids. Alternatively, heavier weapons can passed around and dropped at the end of each turn.

If all your soldiers have at least '''power suits''', the psi-weak soldiers can use standard rifles, auto-cannons with HE ammo, and standard grenades with minimal or no risk to other agents. These weapons are highly effective against Sectoids, allowing you to screen a squad against psionics on Medium UFO and Supply Ship raids without taking friendly casualties.

'''Flying suits''' reduce the lethality of laser pistols and rocket launchers (especially small rockets). Point blank bursts to the rear or undersides of a flying suit can still be lethal, but these weapons provide more firepower for clearing Sectoid bases and battleships. Careful deployment of troops with these weapons can allow them to be used with minimal risk.

When raiding sites with Cyberdiscs, it is necessary to use HWPs or some heavier troops known to be psi-resistant. These troops can be "discovered" in Sectoid Medium UFO raids using the equipment configurations above. Those UFOs have less firepower than bases and Battleships, and only one or two psionic officers (who can be captured with stun rods).

Ethereal sites should only be assaulted by known psi-resistant troops and heavily armored HWPs. A small element of unarmed psi-weaklings could be taken on smaller raids to train their mental resistances, but only as a peripheral exercise, along with a much more resistant element to ensure mission success.

=== Psi soldiers ===

After [[Psionic Laboratory|Psi-training]], any soldiers with high [[Psi Strength]] (ideally 80+) should be given a [[Psi-Amp]], and kept off the front lines. Other units can be used to spot aliens, and your Psi units can safely attack them from a distance. Once your Psi troops gain high [[Psi Skill]] as well, your squad will become nearly invincible. See [[Psionics]] for more details.

=== Super Soldiers ===

Any unit that stays alive and does consistently well in picking up combat experience in ground missions will eventually peak all of his or her attributes.

With high stats across the board - with the possible exception of [[Bravery]] and [[Throwing Accuracy]] - this soldier can do practically anything and can specialize in any role you think of.

== The difference between Veterans and Rookies ==

The better stats a soldier has, the less danger you will want to expose him or her to. High-ranking soldiers should be left in or near the transport for [[Morale]] reasons (see [[Rear Commander]]). a [[Mind Probe]] or two can be useful in the hands of Rear Commanders. Soldiers with the poorest stats should be given the most dangerous duty: for instance, they should be the first unit sent into a UFO.

== Fireteams ==

There is safety in numbers: soldiers should generally be moved in groups of 2-4. If one soldier spots an alien, the others can act as snipers. Spotting an alien is useless if it kills your scout and you have no troops available to return fire upon the alien.

== Tanks ==

The choice of soldiers vs. HWPs is highly dependent on play style. In the early game, tanks are much more expensive than rookies, and funds are tight. Later on, tanks come into their own as highly-mobile expendable scouts.

If you adopt an all-soldier roster, especially on the [[Avenger]] (26 soldiers!), you will have to work around [[the 80-item limit]]. This will necessitate the use of [[Laser Rifle]]s as your primary squad weapon, as they do not require ammo clips.

== Armor ==

In cases where you do not have enough armor for all of your soldiers, the first soldiers to get armor should be the front-line troops: those at the front of the craft, and all scouts. Additional troops should be armored according to their value in combat. Soldiers with high Reactions are likely to engage in a firefight (particularly if they are used as spotters), and should be armored well.

Although [[Flying Suit]]s have the highest armor values, a soldier in mid-air is an easy target. Flying soldiers will also fail to benefit from ground-level smoke cover, such as at the base of the transport. Flying Suits may be of greatest benefit to scouts, who need the increased mobility. A mix of [[Power Suit]]s and Flying Suits is probably best overall for your squad.

Alternatly, just micromanage forces in flying suits to keep them on the ground and have the best of both worlds. further, you can attack ships through holes in the sides or roofs with flying suits.

== Soldier naming strategies ==

One useful strategy is to rename all your soldiers alphabetically. This allows you to see which soldiers will be placed at the front of the transport (arm them with smoke grenades; arm the second row with heavy weapons). To rename soldiers, click on their names while viewing them via the Soldier screen on base.

Another naming strategy is to add stats to their names. [[TU]]s, [[Reactions]], [[Firing Accuracy]], [[Strength]], and [[Psi Strength]] are the most useful stats to display in this fashion. Keep in mind that soldiers' names will have to be updated when they gain stats from [[experience]].

[[Category: Soldiers]]
[[Category: Tactics]]

Terror Mission (TFTD)

2008-03-30T19:16:07Z

(name here):

Big differences with Enemy Unknown are the introduction of 2 part terror missions. These tend to drain your ammo. PLUS, I think you have to actually pick up stuff from the first part to keep it (X-com agents too lazy to salvage it?)

Both parts count towards your scoring, methinks.

Terror Missions ARE ON LAND. This is very bad, since most of your big guns early in the game only work underwater! Good luck taking out those heavily armored terror units using dart guns and grenades... Mag Ion Armor's flight ability doesn't work here either, although the PWT tanks can still fly. Take advantage of that.

Civilians are everywhere in terror missions, even in the second part.

Bring hand-to-hand weapons on terror missions. Have them in every backpack, and pull them out when facing Aliens in narrow space. Heavily armoured terror units don't stand a chance against these, and you can often clean out a small room of aliens with it.

The game won't let you fire the [[Torpedo Launcher]] on land, but your soldier will still be able to use it for reaction fire due to a bug. This isn't always safe, of course.

Do be careful around the oil drums...

'''Note:''' There are numerous reports of aliens inexplicably dying during port attack terror missions, without anyone having fired upon them. These aliens don't count toward your kill rating, but you can recover their bodies and equipment anyway. Port security? Friendly fire? Or old age? There's no way to know.

['''CommanderVix'''] ''Well, since the Aliens are more Underwater based, they probably died from being out of water for too long, just like a fish''

: Self inflicted kills are my bet. Just from my general observation, the aliens in TFTD tend to be a bit grenade-crazy at terror sites. Particularly on the port and island missions. There are the occasional misfired shots, but that's fairly normal. - [[User:NKF|NKF]]

that doesn't cover all of them. i've seen a deep one corpse in an area i'd never reached before with no trace of an explosion.

Tentaculat

2008-03-28T01:18:34Z

(name here):

== General Information ==

The Tentaculat is the most fearsome alien yet encountered by X-Com. Not even the depths of a Lovecraftian nightmare could spawn such as this indescribable creature. No comparison to any Earth animal exists, the environment that could produce such as this is beyond imagination. Short of that, they're best described as floating brains.

Tentaculats are armed with powerful beaks that can pierce many inches of thick armour, regardless of the material. With their spine-line appendages, a Tentaculat paralyses its victims and bites them to transmute them into mindless things by injecting a fast acting agent. In addition to the mind destroying effects, the Tentaculat's transmutation process accelerates rigor mortis and bloats the victim until it rips through and destroys any suit of armour being worn. The victim will wander mindlessly in a shuffle and try to strangle or strike any X-Com target it comes across with inhuman strength.

Even if one of the zombified victims is killed, somehow, a new Tentaculat bursts from the corpse - unless the killing blow is done with a phosphorous round. This appears to cause the incubating Tentaculat's growth process to fail.

The Tentaculat is nearly always spotted in underwater alien dwellings. They are also known to act as watchdogs for some of the larger USOs that have touched down on the sea bed, such as the Dreadnaught.

Basically a flying [[Chryssalid]] with an unusual distribution of armour.
[[Image:Tenta.PNG|right|Tentaculat Ingame]]

The one saving grace is that Tentaculats are water-bound and are never found on land. X-Com Aquanauts do not have to suffer the same mass infestations as their predecessors had to whenever a [[Chryssalid]] was dropped into an urban area. Also, they are vunerable to high-explosive rounds.

==Statistics==
'''TUs:''' 99-146
'''Health:''' 96
'''Energy:''' 140-207
'''Reactions:''' 90-122
'''Strength:''' 100-124
'''Bravery:''' 110
'''Firing Accuracy:''' 20-81
'''Throwing Accuracy:''' 50
'''M.C. Skill:''' N/A
'''M.C. Strength:''' 100-124

== Live Specimen ==
[[Image:Tentaculat.PNG|right|Tentaculat]]

Not even the depths of a Lovecraftian nightmare could spawn such as this indescribable creature. No comparison to any Earth animal exists, the environment that could produce such as this beyond imagination.

Armed with long tentacles the Tentaculat paralyses its victims then transmutes them into mindless things. These progeny can cause death on touch, even through armour.

The Tentaculat is the most fearsome alien yet encountered by X-Com. 

== Autopsy ==
[[Image:Tentaculat_Autopsy.PNG|right|Dead Tentaculat]]

The autopsy reveals small cybernetic implants are lodged in the creature's large brain. The vision system is a complex combination of visible light and thermal imaging acquisition. Even in the inky depths of the ocean this monster can navigate with unerring accuracy. There are vestigial organs that seem to be the bare minimum for survival. Each creature has a small stomach with an external connector, it is logical to assume the being is fed by direct nutrient input by its masters. 

==See Also==
* [[Alien Life Forms (TFTD)|Alien Life Forms]]
* [[Overviews_of_Aliens_(TFTD)|Overviews of Aliens]]
* [[Terror_Units_(TFTD)|Terror Units]]
* [[Zombie]]
* [[Lobsterman]]
* [[Bio-Drone]]
* [[Chryssalid]]
 
{{Aliens (TFTD)}}

User:(name here)

2008-03-27T00:20:37Z

(name here): New page: dude who likes Xcom but is not very good at it.

dude who likes Xcom but is not very good at it.

Talk:Known Bugs

2008-03-16T16:05:41Z

(name here):

== Bugs vs Exploits ==

Could someone comment please on the distinction between a bug and an exploit, and where to put each one? I would guess that a bug is something that undesirable and an exploit "might be" desirable, if you want to cheat. But what about exploits that happen by accident, or bugs that need to be forced to happen?

I was going to add the Research Rollover bug to the Exploits sections, but they seem to all be under construction. What's the agreed approach?

[[User:Spike|Spike]] 04:16, 15 March 2008 (PDT)

* i think that an exploit is somthing you can trigger and gain an advantage from. a bug may or may not have a known trigger, and does not give an advantage if it does.

== Difficulty Bug ==

We should for historical reasons outline the "Difficulty Bug" that [[XcomUtil]] has saved most of us from. Any takers? --[[User:JellyfishGreen|JellyfishGreen]]

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That would only require two or three short lines. Something like this:
'' " Because of one or two incorrectly set bytes in all dos versions of the game( 1.0 through to 1.4), no matter what difficulty was selected, the difficulty bug would reset to beginner at the end of the first mission. XcomUtil performs a very minor tweak that corrects this problem. This bug was officially fixed in the Collectors Edition Windows port (also commonly known as UFO Gold). " ''

Or perhaps something a bit more succinct, and with less commas. Ha!

- [[User:NKF|NKF]]

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This is a technical bug that doesn't happen to everyone and one this article wasn't really meant to chronical - but we won't turn away helping a fellow player if it can't be helped. It's just that there are so many random crash points in this game that it would take far too long to find them all or come up with solutions for them.

Certainly, the transfer crash can happen to some players, but it's not one that can be reproduced easily. It's just like the random crash that some players get when they research a floater medic. It crashes the game for some of us, but others don't seem to notice it at all.

It really depends on your hardware and OS setup, whether or not your copy of the game is damaged or your savegame is damaged, etc.

Does it happen in all games or just this one savegame?

- [[User:NKF|NKF]]

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== "Invisible Muton" bug ==

Upon shooting repeatedly a Muton, it sometimes plays its "death" animation without sound (as if falling unconscious) and it is no longer displayed in the screen, while remaining visible to my soldiers (I can center the screen and the cursor appears yellow over them). Under this state, they cannot be targeted by Stun Rods. They may play their death animation anytime they get shot, until they truly die, when they emit their characteristic sound and leave a corpse (along with any items carried).

I'm quite fond of laser weapons, maybe this happens more often with those.

Also, though I remember experiencing this quite often fighting Mutons, it may happen to any other high health race.--[[User:Trotsky|Trotsky]] 02:59, 2 July 2006 (PDT)

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Never seen that one myself. Another "unpatched game" thing maybe?

There's a (very rare) bug that allows your soldiers to live if they become stunned by an explosion that happens to kill them. Sometimes the game will register their death, and THEN register that they've been stunned. In every case I've seen this happen, however, the unit will have such a low amount of health that a single fatal wound will render it dead (again) on the next turn. I have a vague memory that other players may have been able to get a medkit to the scene on time...

I dunno if that's related to your issue at all (I doubt it, but... meh). I'd advise using a Mind Probe on the alien the next time it happens so you can check the aliens stun/health levels.

- [[User:Bomb_Bloke|Bomb Bloke]]

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I'm pretty sure I've seen this with Mutons. Possibly Chrysallids as well, another high health, high armor creature. They were still readily killed by shooting the place they are. Good thought on the MP, BB

---[[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]] 08:51, 2 July 2006 (PDT)

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I've been known to have a dying muton(in fire) to spin around and then switch to the female civilian death animation. With the scream and everything. Even got a civilian death registered at the end of the mission. And this didn't just happen once, but on another separate occasion.

Hmm. shape-shifting reptilians in the game! LOL! Happens alot [[User:EsTeR|EsTeR]]

Unusually enough, I once had a sectopod die and then drop a tank corpse. I was using the Lightning at the time for my troop carrier, so you can imagine my surprise.

Then there was one occasion where a floater dropped a snakeman corpse. Let's not even get into the sort of things the aliens like to stuff themselves with.

Your invisible alien bug is quite common, although there appears to be many causes for it. I think one involves a full object table when it comes to invisible aliens in bases. But it can also happen in ordinary missions as well. I'm guessing the game may have tried to do something in the wrong order, and sprite information for the unit may have been lost or corrupted along the way.

Having had an experience where all the chryssalids become invisible in one base defence mission was quite a shocker. I fixed this by saving the game, quitting and then restarting the game. If you ever get an invisible alien again, try this and see if it helps. If it doesn't, well, just keep a careful watch on your map and any alerts that pop up as you play.

There's a similar but less severe bug where a dead alien will still leave its centre-on-unit alert button, but this goes away shortly after you move or turn.

- [[User:NKF|NKF]]

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That last bug happens when exploding Cyberdiscs kill nearby Sectoids, doesn't it?--[[User:Trotsky|Trotsky]] 23:56, 2 July 2006 (PDT)

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This is a pretty easy one. I guess this bug occured on UFO recovery on a battleship, an alien base assault or a base defense mission? As soon as there are too many items on the map, the game saves some item slots for the equipment to be displayed (since it is more valuable and more important to research). This would also make stun weapons lethal if the stunned aliens would vanish. therefore the game has a failsafe if an alien is stunned (or badly wounded and becoming uncontious). The downed alien's stun level is set exactly on its left health points therefore resurrecting it instantly. This cycle is broken when the alien is finally killed. This means if you want to stun an alien in such a situation you have to destroy some items first.

- by tequilachef (April 4th 2007)

== Vanishing snakemen ==

I've known snakemen to become invisible when standing on a hay bale. On the first occassion I had a poor tank getting shot while spending numerous turns looking for it. On the second occasion I had an alien under Psi-control, left it on the hay bale, and couldn't find it next turn. - Egor

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This is not limited to snakemen. Hay bale block visibility quite much when a unit is standing on it. Two possible solutions:
- Destroy the hay before entering
- Shoot at the hay. If it is destroyed any unit on it will become visible (as long as no other bales are blocking the line of sight). You might also hit the enemy directly.

I Dnt know if the aliens are affected by this diminished sight, too. My guess would be no.

- By tequilachef (April 4th, 2007)

== Blaster Bomb Bug ==

I'm currently playing through X-com UFO Defense, I have the collectors edition version. I'm in the process of trying to catch a live alien commander and the blaster bomb bug is making this very difficult. If i remember correctly a commander is always in the command center of the the alien bases. The problem is anytime i get close there is always a dude with a blaster launcher up there that tries to kill my troops. When they try to fire it down at me the bug kicks in and they blow up the whole command room and all the aliens in it because they can't figure out how to get the blaster bomb down the grav lift thing in there. This is making it very dificult to actually catch a live commander. Anyone have any ideas for tactics or anything to breach that room without the aliens trying to fire a blaster launcher up there? - eL Hector

: I can suggest two possible solutions. The first is to wait outside the command room for the alien to move closer to you. If it comes out of the room or if you know it has moved down the lift, you then burst in and stand right next to it to stop it from firing the blaster. This is risky because there could very well be a heavy plasma toting alien in there. The other is to use a small launcher and launch it up at the ceiling near where you think the alien with the blaster is standing. -[[User:NKF|NKF]]

== Disappearing Ammunition ==

I have observed that problem with X-COM 1.2, modded with XCOMUTIL. My stun bombs and heavy rocket missiles, along with clips for the auto cannon went missing.
[[User:Vagabond|Vagabond]]

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Just run a test using my 1.4 DOS version with XComUtil but my stun bombs didn't disappear: 30 + 1 back in the base they came from, same number after I went tactical and I dusted-off immediately. Are you running XComUtil with Runxcom.bat or did you simply run Xcusetup?

[[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 22:12, 22 February 2007 (PST)

:Is it a case of hitting the 80-item limit?--[[User:Ethereal Cereal|Ethereal Cereal]] 12:28, 23 February 2007 (PST)

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With runxcomw.bat, as everytime. Apologies, I retested and it seems like I was mistakened, but I could have sworn that I lost them dang stunbombs. Had to manufacture some. I will test some more, using four heavy weapons and seeing whether their ammunition disappears at all. Thanks. [[User:Vagabond|Vagabond]]

==MC at end = MIA?==

I am sure I have seen this again recently, where I won a mission with no casualties (I thought), but the last thing I killed was a Commander that had been chain MC'ing a psi-attack-magnet trooper, and that trooper was listed as MIA at the end (presumably because he was on the enemy side at the end of combat). Is this a bug, or is there another way to get MIA's on a completed mission that I might have missed?

Since then I have been waiting for the leaders to panic at the end before killing them (or waiting for a rare resist), so I can safely exit, but am I being overcautious?

--[[User:Sfnhltb|Sfnhltb]] 13:45, 27 February 2007 (PST)

If the trooper was mind controlled on the turn you killed the last alien it will be listed as MIA. No bug there :)

[[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 18:16, 1 March 2007 (PST)

Huh, why would that happen - your soldier should recover the very next round, why would he go MIA?

--[[User:Sfnhltb|Sfnhltb]] 18:20, 1 March 2007 (PST)

Doesn't make sense to me as well but that's how the game works.

[[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 15:05, 2 March 2007 (PST)

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It seems that regaining control of units under enemy mind control works different for alien and human players. My guess: aliens under human MC are reverted to alien control AFTER THE ALIEN AND BEFORE THE HUMAN TURN while human units under alien control are reverted RIGHT AT THE BEGINNING OF THE HUMAN TURN. This explains three different phenomenons:

- The discussed MIA "bug" (he unit would be returned in the next human turn, but since it never starts it is lost. The mission is still won since no unit with a "genuine alien" marking is left)

- The fact that a mission is lost when the last human falls under MC while it is not won when this happens to the last standing alien (the aliens get their unit back before their turn starts and therefore have a unit left to pass the "anyone alive?" check, the humans would have no unit left to start a turn with. They WOULD have as soon as the turn starts, but no unit left before turn means bust)

- The fact that aliens still can see all an MCed human saw at the end of the human turn that follows the MC while this is not vice versa (The MCed human can give information to the alien side before reverted while an MCed alien is reverted too early). The result is that aliens can control a human indefinitely without having any alien seeing him until the MC is disrupted for one turn.

All confused? Then I did a good job! No seriously, this must be the explanation, I couldn't think of any other way.

- By tequilachef (April 4th, 2007)

: You're absolutely correct on the first two points. It's a sequence issue - you never get round to recovering the unit before the new turn starts, so you end without any units whatsoever. Makes senses too since the aliens would continue to continue to mind control that same unit over and over indefinitely.

: The third point however: The aliens don't need to know the location of the last MC'd unit. They know the location of all your troops whether they've seen them or not from the very start. They appear to give you a few turns of grace where they won't attack you outright (unless, from my observation, all your soldiers are incredibly weak). This is evident because all of the aliens will eventually make their way towards the nearest soldier even though their movement pattern may seem semi-random. Also, they know where you are because they can initiate psionic attacks without having seen any of your troops. They generally go after the weakest troops first.

: Just to add a semi-related point, but from the alien's perspective. If an MC'd alien unit is in the exits when you abort the mission, this alien is not recovered and in fact simply vanishes. Any equipment it was carrying is recovered, unknown artefacts or otherwise. You could possibly think of this as their version of MIA. However, the aliens differ ever so slightly in that if it's the last alien standing and under temporary mind control by the player, the mission doesn't end straight away. But I guess this is only because the player has everything under control, whereas in the other scenario, the Ai is in control.

: -[[User:NKF|NKF]]

== Crash Site in the atlantic ocean ==

That's right, my game generated a crash site on water. Here are the details:

- Crash Site a bit southeast of the USA (which was infiltrated a few days before by sectoids, resulting base had already been taken out), but certainly not on land.

- UFO: battleship, floater, alien harvest

- Geoscape: 8 X-Com Bases, 1 (known) Alien base, 2 other crash sites, 1 other (known) flying UFO (though almost worldwide decoder coverage), 3 X-Com Crafts out, 1 waypoint

- Date: January 2000

- Most Interesting: The Craft that downed the ship was a recently finished Firestorm (first human-alien hybrid craft I had built, I know this is lame for that date. Limited myself on 25 Scientists to improve the challenge) equipped with twin plasma. I had it built and equipped in Antarctica and then transferred to Europe. This base had no Elerium, a fact that enabled me to use the infinite fuel exploit which was in effect when downing the UFO. My craft was only slightly damaged when doing so. The battleship was the first target assigned to the craft, it came directly from my base.

- When shot down, the UFO was not targetted by any other craft.

- I had not lost or sold a single craft to that point.

- When sending a squad to the crash site the game didn't crash but generated a farm land ground combat terrain.

- I was not able to reproduce the bug from the savegame dated 2 hours before downing the UFO

Well guys, any intelligent guesses? I still have the savegames (before and after downing)! If you want to have a look, write here.

- By tequilachef (April 5th 2007)
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: Well I'm sure you know about crash sites that are near land can sometimes actually be on water, so I'm going to assume that this site is well far away from any land mass. Could it be a weird entry in GEODATA\WORLD.DAT that has a land mass out in the ocean? Also are you sure the game didn't crash? Sometimes when it does it will load the previous mission (and usually 90% are at farm terrain). Are you sure it generated a new map and not load the last one?
:No real guesses but maybe some starting points to look at. I've probably stated some obvious situations you know about and have accounted for, but it never hurts to double check :D
- [[User:Pi Masta|Pi Masta]] 14:23, 5 April 2007 (PDT)

== Inconsitencies in MCing Cyberdiscs and Sectopods ==

I experienced, that when MCing one quadrant of a large terror unit any action it does only affects this quadrant (especially use of time units). That means, when TUs are up for one part, MC another one and continue firing. This however does not work out when moving the unit while it is not under complete control. The TUs used up by the resulting reaction fire from the rest of the unit is also deducted from the TUs "your" part has left (making it impossible for the controlled parts to return fire). This however only happens under reaction fire, not if "your" part fires on it's own. I don't know if this comes up when uncontrolled parts shoot by themselves in the alien turn, since this is hard to find out.

: That's because large units literally are made up of four separate units. They only share the same set of general stats (in unitref.dat). Unfortunately the 'under mind control flag' is unique to the four units, not the shared stats! So you in effect have multiple units under different control sharing the same stats. So if you move and it results in a reaction from the unit, it will spend the TUs you're using.
: Successful mind control automatically fills up the unit's TUs, so each mind controlled sector gets to move or attack again until there are no more sectors to mind control. Useful way of turning reapers into long range scouts!
: In TFTD, they attempted to fix this bug, but in fact made it much-much worse! The only way to mind control the unit properly is to control the upper left quadrant. Only! Any other quadrant will result in a partial (clockwise) control, and you may gain control of units other than that unit, or may even get into situations where you gain permanent 'partial control' of a large unit you haven't even sited. Wackiness all around!

:- [[User:NKF|NKF]]

== Facility Dismantle Bug ==

Boba: I've never experienced this bug myself in all my games in the Collectors Edition. It may very well vary from computer to computer.

-[[User:NKF|NKF]]
:I, however, have experienced it. I lost an entire month's worth of playtime because I couldn't solve it. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]]

::Anyone, any ideas on why it might vary from PC to PC? -[[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]]

:::I'd check other factors before blaming a given system. Assuming no mods are being used the most obvious is the order in which you initiated the construction of the modules. Then we've got which one was due to be completed first, and I'm sure there's a few other things to test out. Usually, a player won't cancel in-progress modules on a regular basis, so you wouldn't expect this bug to turn up often. - [[User:Bomb Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] 01:53, 9 June 2007 (PDT)

== Manufacturing Limit Bug ==

Unfortunately, Mike, no you did not get it correct. It is the raw number of hours needed to complete the project, not the projected hours. I discussed this on the X-Com Forums a few months back at the following link: http://www.xcomufo.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=242027760&st=0&#entry164411

I did tests at the time in regard to the accuracy of the data given there, but I've lost the results. I'll quickly redo the tests in the next hour or so. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 19:00, 8 June 2007 (PDT)

:Tests complete. The breakpoints for every item were exactly where I predicted, regardless of number of engineers assigned. (I ran up a huge queue of items at my dedicated factory base on an old game, and then assigned whatever engineers would fit onto one project at a time, canceling projects as data was confirmed. This is only semi-random, but it serves our purposes.) I did run into a single issue, though. It appears that despite having 5 empty hangars at a (different!) base, the workshop there could not queue up more than 3 of any one craft at a time, thus making this bug impossible to replicate with the Firestorm or Lightning, as you must be producing more than three for the bug to occur. However, it still works with the Avenger. Later, I shall see about constructing a dedicated Hangar base with 7 hangars in order to attempt to replicate the bug. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 19:33, 8 June 2007 (PDT)

::Sounds great, Arrow. Why not post a simple example that shows how the problem works. As in, "with 1 Eng and 2 Avengers you might think X, but no, it's Y". And please delete my example. And it's a fine pleasure to meet you! Cool - [[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]]

:::When you say the usual resources are used by the "lost" resources, that includes cash, right? It sounds like if you're willing to foot the extra bill [[Buying/Selling/Transferring#Manufacturable_Prices|money/component-wise]], this could be used to build Avengers slightly faster then normal.

::: The usual time is 34000 hours. Double that and subtract 65535 and you're left with a paltry 2465 hours. Even a single workshop squad of 10 engineers will pull that off in a little over ten days. - [[User:Bomb Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] 01:53, 9 June 2007 (PDT)

::::Sadly, this exploit doesn't work, because the high bit is stored SOMEWHERE. I lack a hex reader and have no code reading skills to speak of, so I'm a bit limited here. If you set up a Workshop as you described, the game would take all the time for 2 Avengers, all the resources for the same, but in the end only produce 1 Avenger. Meanwhile, I'll run more tests on the resources thing. I could swear it consumes the resources, but I'll double check.

:::::There is no need to store the high bits if the actual completion condition (assuming adequate money) is "number made is number ordered", which wouldn't reference the hours remaining at all. - [[User:Zaimoni|Zaimoni]] 01:49, 9 Oct 2007 (CDT)

::::Tests done; I was unable to replicate the 'disappearing item' trick,(Which I didn't test for last night) even with Avengers! It appears I was wrong; this still counts as a bug, though, because the wraparound is a problem.

::::Ironic that so much of this discussion centers around Avengers, because that's where I discovered this in the first place! [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 06:48, 9 June 2007 (PDT)

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I'm revisiting XCOM and was working on [[Manufacturing Profitability]]... Arrow, can you (or anyone else) say a little bit more on the Known Bugs page about this [[Known_Bugs#Manufacturing_Limit_Bug]]? It's not clear to me exactly what the bug does, except that it understates hours. Is that all?... does it still take the (non-buggy) amount of time, still use all the same resources, still make the same number, etc.? It sounds like it could be a drastic bug - or is it only a very superficial one, a display bug for the hours? It sounds like you're leaning toward this latter.

Also on a semi-related note... I could swear I saw much more detailed info on the [[Known_Bugs#Facility_Maintenance_Costs]] issue... IIRC, the incorrect amount that's charged for maintenance, depends on exactly where a facility is in the base. IOW, different "rows" of the base cost different amounts. Could somebody provide a link there, and/or flesh the bug out better?

Thanks! - [[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]] 11:22, 8 October 2007 (PDT)

:I've actually seen the bug work both ways, but I've only been able to actually replicate the more superficial version of the bug. So the bug report up is about a superficial bug that drastically understates production time. If you wish to make this clearer, you have my blessings. As well, that 'different charging based on location' is dealt with here: http://ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Base_Facilities ; however, the table has been broken with the Wikiupgrade, and I lack sufficient knowledge of HTML table code to fix it. But it should be of use to you. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 11:26, 8 October 2007 (PDT)

::Cool, I fixed [[Talk:Base Facilities]] but also re-organized and expanded [[Base Facilities]] so that it includes that bug in detail, as per Talk... this is an important issue that should be up front. I see that there's a separate [[Maintenance costs]] page, but I can't see having something so important (the maintenance bug explanation) all on its own page (which makes for a rather short page) rather than together with all the rest of the base facility info. If others agree (or don't care), I'll move anything remaining on Maintenance Costs to the Base Facilities page, then delete Maintenance Costs and re-route links. And if somebody does care, then please move my new section to Maintenance Costs, and move all the links, etc. Oh also I put in more words on your Manufacturing Limit Bug - how does it look? - [[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]] 16:37, 8 October 2007 (PDT)

:Looks pretty good, although it'll wrap fully; if you ask for 120000 hours, it won't be displaying 'almost no' time. The way I discovered it was when building two Avengers; I ordered two, paid for two, waited for two...and got one. But as said, haven't managed to repeat it, so until I do, we'll leave it like that. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 18:00, 8 October 2007 (PDT)

::I just revised and put in your specific example, because it's certainly possible some of us die-hard players will order up more than 1 Avenger at a time - and it's guaranteed it'd be a pain if 1 of them disappeared, laugh. I wasn't sure how concrete you were on that example but now I hear you say, you are sure it happened at least once. - [[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]] 18:33, 8 October 2007 (PDT)

:I have a question concerning the manufacturing "bug" which eats a craft in production due to wrap-over of the byte. Arrow (or whoever did the test), did you have a large quantity of craft already built at your bases? If so, I think this bug has more to deal with clogging up [[CRAFT.DAT]]. See, that file has a limit of 50 entries. Each craft takes up one record and each base you have built also consumes one spot. 8 bases allows 42 craft to be housed, while 6 bases allow 44. If you try to buy or manufacture craft once the file is full, nothing shows up in the game even if you have hangar space available. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 19:00, 8 October 2007 (PDT)

::Huh, I never knew that. I don't see it listed on the Bugs page... I'll stick it in there. I've never approached that number, but some folks might. - [[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]] 19:07, 8 October 2007 (PDT)

:I was able to continue building other Avengers after that project, and they appeared correctly, so I do not believe that is the issue. In any event, I have a very bad case of 'archivism' and probably still have the save game and the CRAFT.DAT file around on my system; in fact, I think I was playing it a few days ago. I can see if I can find it and upload it; it created a 'hole' in the Avenger fleet numbers, where Avenger's x and x+2 were built, but x+1 was not. I'll look for it tonight and tomorrow and upload it to the wiki if I find it. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 19:10, 8 October 2007 (PDT) EDIT: I found the file; I have 28 Avengers and 1 Skyranger in my employ. All Avenger numbers EXCEPT #2(Avenger-2) are accounted for, and I have not sacked or lost any Avengers. So this is where the hole and 'eaten' Avenger is. If anyone wants the CRAFT.DAT file from this game, I'd be happy to forward it. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 21:20, 8 October 2007 (PDT)

::Sure, send it my way and I'll take a look at it. (Might as well send me the whole saved game as I may want to look at the other files too). I have tried to recreate this bug by manufacturing 1, 2 and 3 Avengers at a clip but all of them always show up. Don't know what else I could do to get this problem to crop up. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 21:32, 8 October 2007 (PDT)

:File emailed. On the side, I've tried the same thing, and never been able to repeat the bug. It's been months since the first discovery, so I can't recall whether it was the first or the second Avenger that didn't appear. So maybe it was just a fluke. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 21:57, 8 October 2007 (PDT)

== Unconscious Enemy in Equipment Screen ==

The following happened to me repeatedly over the last few days.

In the last tactical Mission a live alien has been captured. When now beginning an UFO crash recovery mission this type of alien (same race and rank) appears in the equipment screen before the mission starts, meaning I can give it to any of my soldiers.
If I do so I can store the alien in the skyranger for the duration of the mission and, if it gains consciousness, kill or stun it at the end of it. A pile of equipment without a corpse will be in the UFO, indicating that the stunned alien is not some kind of duplicate but instead has been taken from the aliens of this mission. This is supported by the fact that in those missions the maximum number of crew members has not been surpassed.
If I do not do so the Alien will be placed in the crashed UFO. Whether it is unconscious or not I do not know, but the fact that it is completely disarmed when encountered in the battle suggests that it is.

So far it seems the following is necessary for the bug to occur:
# An alien has to be captured alive in the last tactical combat
# It has to be of the same race and rank as one of the aliens in the new tactical combat

So far this only worked...:
# If the new tactical combat was an UFO crash recovery of a medium scout.
# For floaters and mutons
# For soldiers and navigators
# If the alien in the last mission was stunned by normal weapon fire (although I do not think this is important) and not picked up (again, not likely to be important) or destroyed (which would mean it has to be actually captured)

It seems NOT to depend on the following:
# The type of the last mission (were, so far: Ground assault battleship, crash recovery large scout, base defense)
# Which squad or vessel was involved capturing the alien
# Where it is locked up
# If it has been transferred since capture or not

Would be interesting to know:
# What happens if the alien in the inventory screen is the only survivor
# If the alien in the invenory screen is one of the aliens randomly killed in the crash or not (it is likely to be one of the killed aliens, so far the equipment piles were always within the UFO)
# If this is not limited on crashed medium scouts: Does this work with terror units? What about large ones?

Maybe this is related to the proximity grenade bug (transfer of item properties to next tactical combat).

Additionally, in one of those mission a part of the terrain was not generated correctly. It was in farm terrain (The house on the right square, or north east square, in [[Image:Terrain-cult.gif|this pic]]). The outer wall right to the right window of the southern wall (1st Floor) was missing. Directly outside of the hole was a floor tile. I could walk a soldier through the wall, but he fell right through the tile. Dunno if this has to do with the stunned alien bug.

Version is collectors edition (the one from abandonia.com).

----------------

When a mission starts, the GeoScape engine generates the unit and object tables (in MissDat's [[OBPOSREF.DAT]], [[UNIPOS.DAT]], and [[UNIREF.DAT]]) before "shutting down". The Tactical engine then generates the maps, places the aliens on it, and blows up the UFO (if need be). Whether or not map generation and the subsequent events happen before you equip your soldiers I don't yet know.

The test would be to check the aforementioned files to see if they contain an unconcious alien, and/or the body.

Note that you can't see the bodies of large units on the ground (they count as four seperate objects covering four seperate tiles, so allowing the user to pick one up would essentially let you rip them apart).

- [[User:Bomb Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] 06:35, 5 August 2007 (PDT)

----------------

I honestly have no idea of how all those files work. But I still have a savegame in battlescape that is in one of those missions. So if anyone wants to have a look at those files...

I forgot to mention: I reloaded a geoscape savegame shortly before the battle to recreate the bug, but it seems that reloading in geoscape before the buggy battle eliminates the bug. I guess his should narrow down the possible reasons...

--------

Next time it happens, backup the aforementioned files before you start another mission. I'm afraid a savegame wouldn't be of much help.

- [[User:Bomb Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] 00:54, 7 August 2007 (PDT)

== Soldiers moved to outside of combat screen ==

Hi, I've got a DOS version of UFO:EU, and I've encountered a bug in the tactical combat. Sometimes (rarely) a X-COM soldier changes its location on the map on player's turn start and is placed on outside of the map, one tile north from the (north) border of the field. AFAIR the unit is then selectable (you get the flashing highlight when cursor is above), but is stuck outside of the field. Has anybody encountered this bug? It seems to happen randomly, but more frequently during the terror missions and on early turns (so maybe it's caused by high number of player/alien/civilian units?). --[[User:Maquina|Maquina]] 08:16, 3 September 2007 (PDT)

:I've never encountered this bug in CE of UFO. Presuming AFAIR means "As Far As I Recall," what exactly was the soldier doing? Any equipment data, location, or stat info might help us pin it down. Were afflicted soldiers always carrying a specific equipment set or weapon? Where were they on the map before they got moved? Did they get bumped a few spaces, or teleported halfway across the Battlescape? Does it happen more often on a specific difficulty?(Your theory would suggest this would happen most commonly on Superhuman) Against a certain type of alien? Best of all, if you can recreate the situation in a game, save the game and then you could upload the save file to the forums or this wiki, and the rest of us could take a look for ourselves and the code divers could root around for the cause. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 15:03, 3 September 2007 (PDT)

:: I've had this happen to me several times in UFO and TFTD. I don't know if it's specific to the Dos version or if it can happen in the CE as well. Sometimes the soldier ends up beyond the boundary of the map right at the start of the mission, at other times it happens after you load a game. This game is glitchy, which is the source for so many of its bugs, so your soldier's coordinates are probably getting corrupted to the point where they are -1 on either the X or Y axis of the maps's normal boundaries. For me it's commonly along the top edge of the map. I don't ever recall it happening mid-mission, only at the start or after a load. I cannot faithfully say whether it happened with or without XComutil, but that could be one of the possibly many causes for this. - [[User:NKF|NKF]]

:: I don't play UFO often, so I rely on just several campaigns played. This happens rarely (I've encountered this bug twice in my last campaign with ~80 missions played), but if you haven't seen this happen then it probably doesn't show up in the CE edition. In my experience the soldier is moved always beyond the north/top map border. I think (but I'm not sure) that this affects the first soldier from the team more commonly than others (or maybe even exclusevily?). The equipment/armor carried is probably not relevant, since the units moved this way don't have any special stuff, and this bug shows up on different stages of the gameplay (ie. sometimes when you have ordinary rifles, sometimes when all your units got heavy plasmas and power suits). --[[User:Maquina|Maquina]] 04:12, 4 September 2007 (PDT)

'''MY ramblings have been moved to my discussion page''' [[User:EsTeR|EsTeR]]

=Great Circle Route=

Should we have the Great Circle Route bug noted on this page at all? [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 20:33, 6 October 2007 (PDT)

=Bug not listed: SWS-Gauss Dissappearing Ammo=

I just found this the hard way...

* The Coelacanth/Gauss does NOT return any remaining ammo to your stores at the end of a mission. In addition, when you assign a Coelacanth/Gauss to a troop transport, 50 Craft Gauss Cannon rounds will be immediately deducted. These rounds cannot be refunded by any means. If you change your mind about assigning it, deassign it, and then reassign it, the premium will be deducted yet again from your stores.

=Bug not listed: Missing soldiers during base defense=

I encountered an interesting bug concerning base defense missions:
My base got attacked while about 30 soldiers and 10 HWPs were present. The usual equipment assignment screen was skipped and the mission started instantly with only the HWPs spawned at the map. Not even a single soldier bothered to show up... *sigh*
Although this turned out to be in my favor (you should have seen the puzzled Ethereals trying to panic my tanks) I´d like to avoid this bug if possible. I was able to reproduce this bug several times and with different bases.
Can anyone explain this bug and/or tell me how to avoid it?

Game version: Collectors edition. - [[User:NewJoker|NewJoker]]

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Well, ideally, we need to know what your base's construction was to be sure of this, but I think the most likely circumstance is that the HWPs took up all the spawn points. HWPs have maximum priority for spawning(followed by Soldiers, and then Aliens), so if you have enough of them garrisoning a base, it's entirely possible that soldiers and aliens won't spawn. However, this doesn't explain why the soldiers didn't start stealing the Alien spawn points...in any event, you might want to take the save game file, zip it up, and get ready to email it. I'm sure [[User:Zombie|Zombie]] would be quite interested. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 15:28, 13 November 2007 (PST)

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It's not the spawn points, it's a [[UNITPOS.DAT]] limitation. A maximum of forty records (out of the total of eighty) are allocated for your units, and tanks (which take up four records each) get first pick. Having ten tanks means there's no room left for anything else.

Ditch one HWP and you should see four units take it's place. - [[User:Bomb Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] 16:42, 13 November 2007 (PST)

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I´ll try with a decreasing number of tanks and report the results. As I wrote above having only HWPs isn´t too bad dependent on what enemy is attacking. [[User:NewJoker|NewJoker]]

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This should be mentioned in the [[ExploitsE#Base Defence Mission Spawning Issues]] section. The Bugs/Exploits really need to be sorted and consolidated. - [[User:NinthRank|NinthRank]] 16:57, 13 November 2007 (PST)

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The limitation to 40 records seems to be the case; each tank I dumped got replaced by four soldiers.
So this can be used to effectively manage unit combination. Thanks for the quick replies! [[User:NewJoker|NewJoker]]

=Bug not listed: Ufo Gold (Windows Vers. abandonia.com) crashin when plasm defense is finished=

I recordnized this bug a few times now. (with hacked AND unhacked game)
If i place a plasma defense in 7 bases at the same Time and they are finished at the same Time, the game crashes sometimes.
In hacked game, it seems to crash even more when Alien containment is finished, plasma defense, shield defense...etc.
couldnt find it here...greetz

: I somehow doubt the sourcing is the issue. [You may want to fund the next XCOM series game with a Take2 re-release of UFO :)] More generally: the game only reports the construction of a given type of facility once, no matter how many bases it completes at simultaneously. I've only tested this in vivo with three-of-a-kind at once across six bases, however. It does seem reasonable that some sort of counter of undisplayed completions would "overflow" (attaining crash). -- [[User:Zaimoni|Zaimoni]] 10:05, Feb. 28 2008 CST

::I've encountered this bug myself with General Stores, actually, not just Plasma Defense(which I never build). EDIT: Some quick tests seem to show that there's a chance the game will crash any time two base facilities are done at the same time, regardless of whether they're in the same base or not or if they're the same facility.(although it seems to happen MUCH more in the event they're in different bases.) [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 10:13, 28 February 2008 (PST)

Talk:Elerium-115

2008-03-13T21:34:40Z

(name here):

==Bug==
Has anyone ever came across an issue in the CE version of UFO in which a landed UFO gets assaulted and my guys leave the Power
Source intact, however, at the summary screen at the end - there is no elerium, although the power source appears?? I'm confused - I don't understand how that could have happened! I've only seen it once so far - could have been data corruption... not sure :s - [[User:Phoenix|Phoenix]]

Elerium is the very last item to be spawned in a battlescape map (first X-Com equipment, then alien equipment, then Elerium).

If you brought too many items to the battle site, it's possible that there wouldn't be room in memory for the Elerium. Bring along enough stuff and you can also deprive the aliens of their equipment.

Was the Elerium visible during gameplay (little purple stun bomb thingy sitting on the power supply, or white + on the radar)? If so, try picking it up (the power supply won't explode if you just shoot it).

-[[User:Bomb_Bloke|Bomb Bloke]]

Cheers for that Bomb Bloke - I haven't seen it happen again, as there has always been elerium on the missions that I expect it. After having a read through this site, about the object table overflowing, I can understand how that can happen. I'll keep an eye out for it in the future. Cheers again! :) - [[User:Phoenix|Phoenix]]

If you used explosives (grenades or cannons) near the power source, it's possible the Elerium was destroyed (damage=20) while the power source remained intact (damage=50) --[[User:Ethereal Cereal|Ethereal Cereal]] 21:33, 8 May 2006 (PDT

==How much Elerium is “1 Elerium“?==

Tequila, I've been away a while and am just noticing your "1 Elerium" section. '''Very''' interesting thoughts! Thanks for that bit of armchair science!!

But I can think of a couple of issues... on the one hand, surely at least the Avenger is space-worthy, which could mean it may fly in little or no atmosphere. This is also probably at least potentially true for all the researched craft, since they all use elerium engines and alien alloys, and are originally designed based on researching UFOs (all of which are space-worthy). Also known as, why not make is space-worthy, if you're designing something strong enough to face UFOs. (Even 1990s fighters could fly very high in the atmosphere, with a principle reason for not going to space being there's no air for their jet engines... but Elerium does away with that concern.) On the other hand, you left out of your calculations the price to be paid for fighting off gravity. That's surely energy expensive! (Look how big rockets have to be.) So you might consider toning down the drag factor... and introducing a big gravity factor, if you care to have another go at it.

I also really like the alternate approach to playing XCOM on your [[User:Tequilachef]] page. A few small conceptual constraints which make a huge difference in game play (a.k.a. there's always a real risk of losing).

- [[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]] 17:34, 10 October 2007 (PDT)

You are right I guess. I formerly had the gravity issue included by that:
"Now we take that keeping the craft at max speed only uses 95% of required energy per mission..."
I now changed that to 75%, which seems more likely to fit but is still far from exact.
In reality, the aspect of overcoming gravity would create a VERY complex mathematical problem. Flying higher lowers the atmospheric density and therefore atmospheric drag, but raises fuel requirements for obtaining flight height. Considering that complex flying maneuvers might be necessary for interception and that the starting height might vary from base to base no absolute solution exists. Constant calculations by computers would be a necessity.
Remember: Both atmospheric density and gravity depend on height (or distance from gravity source) and are both differential equations. If anyone reads this and has loads of time, feel free to work out that one. Else, I would prefer those educated guesses ;)

- tequilachef

:It's worth noting that while the UFO Power Source may be incredibly efficient in Elerium use, there is no guarantee that this is so in regards to the alien weapons. In fact, given the size of a power unit, I'd say it's more likely that the weapons are extremely inefficient in Elerium use. (Especially the heavy plasma clip; 3 times the Elerium for one-third more shots and just over double the killing power of the [[Plasma Pistol]].) We also don't know exactly where that Elerium used in construction of the grenade(or anything else) goes; it's quite possible that only a fraction of it goes into the charge/warhead and some is used in the creation of functional parts. Also, it should be noted that explosions do NOT scale linearly; twice as large a warhead on an atomic or hydrogen bomb does not equal twice the explosive power. In addition, it's been theorized that the explosion from UFO Power Sources is not from the impact; its from trying to start the UFO's engines in order to escape incoming X-COM troops before it's ready(thus why the aliens are killed immediately before the X-COM turn begins, and not when the UFO crashes.)

:Of course, since this is fiction, it really doesn't matter, just thought I'd bring a few things to the table since you seem interested in scientific accuracy. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 15:53, 2 November 2007 (PDT)

:: After running the numbers myself (54000nm in 10hr is, indeed, 10000km/hr - or about 278m/s) I can say that the quoted figures are slightly off. According to some quick research the density of air at that altitude is the same as the density of air at sea level. However, I used the classic formula of the drag equation:
::: Fd = 1/2ρv2CdA
::where ρ is the density of the air, v is the velocity, Cd is the coefficient of friction and A is the surface area. Using this we get Fd = 1/2 1.293 * (2782) * 0.3 * 20 - or about 299,785 Newtons of force. For total power requirement we use the Power Requirement equation P=FdR, where Fd is the result of the preceding Drag equation and R is the range - stated as being 100,000km (100,000,000m). Solving that equation we find that we require 2.99785*1013 Joules of energy. This figure, following the figures, is 75% of the total available power from the Elerium, so the total available power is 3.99712848*1013 Joules. With c equal to 299,792,457m/s plugged into Einsteins famous equation of: E = mc2 we get a result of 4.4*10-4 kilograms. However, this is stated as being 99% of the total, so we have a full load of Elerium fuel for the Avenger of 4.49*10-4kilograms. That is, 4.49 '''grams''' of fuel - and as the Avenger is stated as carrying 12 units of Elerium, the result is that each unit is 0.37 grams - that's right, 37 '''centigrams''' of Elerium per fuel unit. - [[User:Shadow|Shadow]] 18:23, 2 November 2007 (PDT)

::As for a Terror Ship containing 200 units of Elerium, if my above math is correct (as I believe), the result of that Elerium detonating at 100% conversion, isn't even equivalent to a 2 Megaton nuclear device. (200 units is about 74grams - direct conversion of all that mass would release about 6.65*1015 Joules of energy. 1 Megaton is equivalent to 4.185*1015 Joules. This places a 200 unit, 100% efficient explosive at about 1.6 Megatons in size. IIRC the largest nuclear device ever built was around 200 Megatons. (Note that the edge of non-overpressure damage for a 1 Megaton blast is around 20 Miles) - [[User:Shadow|Shadow]] 22:12, 2 November 2007 (PDT)

:Damn, this is all very cool armchair stuff. I just added a link at [[Realistic_Equivalents#Elerium-115]]. If anyone wants to summarize/move all this conjecture there, that's fine, but it sounds like it's still a moving target, as it were. And the E-115 page is a good enough place, anyway. - [[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]] 22:42, 2 November 2007 (PDT)

:::I've found an error in my above math. The velocity is 2778m/s, not 278m/s - this makes the force 29,930,555 Newtons. (call it 2.993*107 for simplicity) This makes it 2.993*1015 for the used power, or 3.99*1015 Joules. That works out to 0.0444kg, but, as stated, this is assumed to be 99% due to the 1% inefficiency - so it's 0.0449kg. Makes it 449 grams of Elerium covering 12 units, or around 37 grams of Elerium per unit. This would give a Terror Ship about 7.5 kilo's of Elerium - at 100% efficiency the amount of generated energy would be 6.74*1017 joules released. That would be equal to about 16 thousand megatons - the "Gigaton" designation comes in at 4.184*1018 Joules. This would be enough to shatter the Earth. However, this assumes that all generators detonate at the same time, there is no "material scattering" effect from the first blast(s) and that the Elerium converts at 100% efficiency. None of these things are likely to be true. - [[User:Shadow|Shadow]] 22:54, 2 November 2007 (PDT)
::::Bah, make that around 160 Megatons. This means that there have '''''still''''' been larger nuclear bombs produced on Earth. - [[User:Shadow|Shadow]] 23:03, 2 November 2007 (PDT)

:Very cool. For one thing though, UFO Power Sources do not "chain react", as recently posted at [[UFO_Crash_Recovery#Power_Source_Explosions_and_Elerium_Recovery]]. In the extreme case of the Terror Ship, if 1 PS explodes, it wastes all 3 of the others so that they don't explode. However, isolated PSs can all (independently) explode, as in the case of the Battleship. I have to say though I never saw the earth shatter... clearly those UFO walls are pretty heavy armor. ;) - [[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]] 23:08, 2 November 2007 (PDT)

::That's the point I was making. At only 160MT absolute potential for the 200 units of Elerium onboard a Terror Ship, well... That's assuming that all four cores go simultaneously and the Elerium converts at 100% in the "wild" reaction. The truth is that a single core going actually would disrupt the functioning of the other cores - by causing a scattering of the Elerium. As we can assume that each of the four cores contains 50 units, the math shows that each core is capable of somewhere between 39.5 and 40 megatons at the absolute limit. But that is in a perfect reaction - where the Elerium converts 100% to energy. The fact is that an uncontrolled reaction - like that which causes an explosion - is far from ideal, and would be, at most, 90% efficient, if not closer to 50%. And that also assumes that the Elerium's conversion releases the energy in an even mix of heat, pressure and radiation. The more likely result - seeing as how Elerium is capable of being used as a power source for pistols and other compact weapons - is that it releases a lot of easily converted radiation - likely in the form of high-energy beta particles. This isn't to say that Elerium can't have an explosive form of reaction - just that the way it's used in the reactors is probably as a beta-particle and heat generator, and potentially even X-Ray and Gamma-Ray source (both of which can be used with forms of photovoltaics to generate electricty). If they go for the efficient side, then the reaction used in reactors is more than 50 percent focused towards directly convertable forms of energy. Truthfully, I'm guessing that they focus it at 75 to 80 percent "hard radiation" (beta, gamma-ray and x-ray) output. This means that such a reactor going super-critical and exploding wouldn't do a lot of physical damage from the blast, but it would irradiate quite a bit. - [[User:Shadow|Shadow]] 14:41, 3 November 2007 (PDT)

:::I thought along similar lines. Your typical old-fashioned Hiroshima-style fission bomb contains like what, 10kg of U-235? Or whatever is the critical mass. But most of it is vaporized and sent flying in all directions as soon as things really get hot. Only a small amount actually reacts before the rest is blown apart. And this in a device that's meant to explode. IIRC, in Chernobyl none of the fissionable material actually exploded – excess heat produced a lot of steam which forced the lid open, then air rushing in allowed the graphite to catch fire and burn for days. In effect all fissionable material was wasted (in the sense of "not recoverable") yet in terms of explosions, it was nothing special. --[[User:Schnobs|Schnobs]] 19:01, 3 November 2007 (PDT)

:I've written a [http://shadowwolf.keil-draco.com/solver.py.txt program in Python] that solves all the equations - including the Barometric function for atmospheric density. On running it and giving it all the above parameters I've learned that even my "corrected" figures are off. An Avenger is carrying about 25.5 grams of Elerium, which makes each unit about 21/8 grams. This would give a Terror Ship a full load of 425 grams of Elerium, and a "perfect conditions" explosive potential of around 9Mt - the MIRV warheads on most missiles in the US arsenal during the 1960's was larger than that. Taking [[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed's]] reminder that Elerium reactors do not chain-react and [[User:Schnobs|Schnobs']] reminder that nuclear explosions never use the whole mass of the available material - a "high-end" estimate of material that reacts would be 50% - this would leave us with a single-reactor explosion of 1.25Mt - about four hundred times the total combined destructive potential of the (in)famous "Fat Man" and "Little Boy" bombs that were dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1944. However, the quoted figure for the size of the fireball for a 1Mt nuclear device (the US Minuteman Missile) is .96km. So the fireball from a 1.25Mt device is going to be about 1 mile. This says nothing about the area damaged or destroyed by the pressure-wave that a nuke generates. - [[User:Shadow|Shadow]] 01:21, 4 November 2007 (PST) (corrected later - [[User:Shadow|Shadow]] 02:24, 4 November 2007 (PST))

::Based on the 11 tile blast radius of any power core and the 2.26 meter per tile conjecture we can see that the blast diameter of a power core is approximately 50 meters. With a 960m blast diameter being what is expected from a 1 Megaton bomb, and a 48m one from a 20 kiloton bomb, we find that the power cores detonation is right around 20 kilotons. That means that about 1 gram of material has been consumed for the explosion. In other words, not even a single unit of Elerium detonates. - [[User:Shadow|Shadow]] 21:09, 4 November 2007 (PST)

:::I don't know where or how you came by the figures of 960m or 48m respectively, but have some doubt as to what they actually mean. Pictures from the japanese cities are not conclusive (bomb was touched off high above ground, many wooden buildings might have withstood the actual blast but we won't know as they burned to the ground anyway). However, from chemistry class I remembered an explosion in a fertilizer plant ([http://www.bufata-chemie.de/reader/ig_farben/pics/1-4-3_01_oppau-big.jpg picture]) that was rated in kilotons. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oppau_explosion Wikipedia] speaks of 1-2kt and a 90x125m crater, which would be like 40x50 tiles in UFO scale. This explosion happened at ground level, the buildings were brick or concrete. Looking at the picture, I don't think any explosions in UFO, not even Blaster Bombs, are anywhere near kiloton scale. --[[User:Schnobs|Schnobs]] 10:51, 5 November 2007 (PST)

::::The values come from the [[wikipedia:Nuclear weapon yield|Wikipedia article about Nuclear Weapons Yield]]. On that page is an equation that can determine yield from blast radius and time after the start of the blast and a diagram of blast radius based on yield. In said diagram it lists the blast diameter of a 1 Megaton bomb (W59 - the Minuteman 1) at .96km - ie: 960 meters - and the blast radius of a 20 kiloton bomb ("Fat Man" - the "gun type" uranium fission device dropped on Nagasaki) at 48 meters. Note that this is the size of the fireball and not the damage radius caused by a nuclear weapons overpressure event.

::::The city of Hiroshima sits inside a natural "Bowl" or depression in the landscape. The "Little Boy" bomb is estimated to have only been 13 kilotons and the damage effect was multiplied because of the airburst (IIRC, "Little Boy" detonated some 100 feet about the ground) and the damage was magnified by the shockwave from the detonation reflecting off the hills surrounding the city. It was nearly the same for the higher yield "Fat Man" device that was used against Nagasaki. (In fact, if I remember my High School history classes correctly, it was the geography of the two locations that was the reason for them being chosen as targets).

::::In conclusion I'd like to say that I doubt that the reactor explosions themselves are nuclear in nature. It is much more likely that they originate from sources very similar to the cause of the explosion at Chernobyl. - [[User:Shadow|Shadow]] 15:30, 5 November 2007 (PST)

:While it doesn't change the ultimate conclusion of "not even a single unit detonating", I'd say any more then 1 meter per tile is being more then a bit generous. 2.26 meters suggests the average unit is over a meter and a half wide, and somewhere over three meters tall. Where did that value come from?! - [[User:Bomb Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] 22:29, 4 November 2007 (PST)

:::It came from [[User_talk:Danial|here]]. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 22:38, 4 November 2007 (PST)

::::Correct. [[User:Danial|Danial]] has estimated that each tile is approximately 2.26m2 on his [[User talk:Danial|talk page]]. I have no interest in this, really, other than of an academic nature, since it can be used to estimate the yield of the device that created the fireball. - [[User:Shadow|Shadow]] 15:30, 5 November 2007 (PST)

::::If [[User:Bomb Bloke|Bomb Blokes]] 1.6x1.6x2.4 meter size of a single tile is correct, then a Reactor has a blast diameter of 35.2 meters. Using the "Radius from Yield" equation of R = (Et2/ρ)1/5 we can solve to find the actual yield of the device. I'll run that equation later, but I'm estimating that the yield is less than 10 kilotons. - [[User:Shadow|Shadow]] 16:21, 5 November 2007 (PST)

::::Okay, assuming that the explosion is at sea-level (ρ = 1.2550kg/m3) and the explosion covers the entire 11 tile radius at the end of a TU (using [[User:Danial|Danials]] 1.71m/s speed estimate we can see that a TU is 18.7s based on the 20 tiles a soldier with 80TU's can cover) we can solve the above equation for bomb yield. (that is, E=R5ρ/t2) and arrive at a yield of about 6060.71 Joules of power - about 1.5 '''microtons'''. This seems to indicate that the estimate of the length of a TU is wrong, or that the explosion does not consume an entire TU. If we accept that the TU length is correct and that the explosion does not consume an entire TU - highly unlikely that an explosion would take 18.7 seconds to occur anyway - and run with a figure of 1/1000th of a TU (0.0187s for the explosion to occur) we find that the explosion is much more powerful 6060714855.6 J - or about 1.4 tons. And the figure will continue to rise the shorter the time-span for developing to that diameter is. - [[User:Shadow|Shadow]] 17:03, 5 November 2007 (PST)

::::Using [[User:Danial|Danials]] estimate of 2.26m per tile the result is a bit more — 34077375066.3 J - about 8.1 tons. - [[User:Shadow|Shadow]] 17:18, 5 November 2007 (PST)

::::Note: The Trinity test has been officially stated as having been 20 kilotons. Based on examination of the released videos of that blast [[wikipedia:Geoffrey Ingram Taylor|one scientist]] has calculated it's power at about [[wikipedia:Nuclear weapon yield#Calculating yields and controversy|22 kilotons]]. (The numbers he used were: R = 140m, t = 0.025, ρ = 1 - using those same numbers we can see that he arrived at a value of 86051840000000 J – about 20.6 kilotons) What the preceding means is that the above stated equation (E=R5ρ/t2 is correct :P - [[User:Shadow|Shadow]] 17:55, 5 November 2007 (PST)

::::Sadly, [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] has pointed out an error in my math regarding the length of a TU. I used the 20 tiles in 80 TU's as a base for the equation, multiplying the '20 tiles' by the distance of 1.6 meters per tile. However, I must have been out of my mind in reporting 18.7 seconds per TU. Running the numbers by hand (on a piece of paper!) I've found that 20*1.6*1.71 makes that 80 TU turn approximately 55 seconds long. Dividing that by the 80 TU's in said turn we find that each TU is about 0.69 seconds long. Re-running the above stated equation with the reactor detonation taking 1 TU and 1/1000th of a TU we get the following results:
::::* 1 TU: 3,572,876 J - not even 1 ton
::::* one thousandth of a TU: 3,572,875,919,360 - 854 tons
::::If we use [[User:Danial|Danials]] 2.26m per tile figure we find that 1 TU is 0.97 seconds long. Solving the above equation using the 2.26 meters and 0.97 seconds per TU figure we have the following numbers for the size of a reactor cores explosion:
::::* 1 TU: 10,302,987 J - again, not even 1 ton
::::* one thousandth of a TU: 10,302,987,085,467 J - 2.5 kilotons
::::As you can see, the size of a tile not only affects the length of a TU (0.69s for a 1.6mx1.6mx2.4m tile, 0.97s for a 2.26mx2.26mx2.4m tile) but also the apparent yield of a reactors explosion. Now, as noted before (I think I mentioned it anyway), 1 gram of matter converting to energy creates an explosion of around 20 kilotons. This means that, if a reactors explosion is nuclear in nature, it's using about 1/10th of a gram of Elerium to create the result.
::::Finally, I did forget to mention that the figure only applies if the reactor detonations fireball creates the 11 tile damage radius and it is not the result of other features of a nuclear detonation. - [[User:Shadow|Shadow]] 18:29, 5 November 2007 (PST)

:::::Stepping away from all previous figures and estimating a tile as being 1.71m2, and using the bog standard human walking rate of 1.71m/s we find that, since it takes a rookie an average of 4 TU's to cross one tile that a single TU is 1/4 of a second. Using that together with the above stated 1.71m2 tile size we get the following results:
:::::* 1TU: 37,675,928 J - about 0.009 tons
:::::* one thousandth of a TU: 37,675,928,185,077 - about 9 kilotons
:::::Again, this assumes that all the damage seen inside that 11 tile radius was caused by the fireball. - [[User:Shadow|Shadow]] 18:57, 5 November 2007 (PST)

::::::These "initial fireballs" are a somewhat artificial concept, allowing you to gauge the yield of a nuclear weapon. But equalling it to any distinguishable radius of destruction is nonsense. I suggest you refer to [[wikipedia:Effects of nuclear explosions#Direct effects]] instead. --[[User:Schnobs|Schnobs]]

:::::::I see your Wikipedia article and raise you the one that spawned the equation I used - [[wikipedia:Nuclear weapons yield#Calculating yields and controversy. I never said "Initial Fireball" and that isn't an "Artificial Concept". Each Nuclear Detonation creates a "Fireball" of varying size, simply because, in pure fission reactions, it causes the air to superheat and in Fusion reactions, because that is what the insanely hot, reacting plasma is - a mass of super-hot plasma. - [[User:Shadow|Shadow]] 19:23, 6 November 2007 (PST)

::::::::A value of 200m for the Nagasaki Bomb struck me as a trifle odd. Ain't that a bit small? Also, what's this talk about a precise fireball size? Shouldn't it just get larger and larger until it eventually dissipates? So, when exactly will the fireball have the stated size?

::::::::I therefore read that article and a followed a few source links (hint: each picture has an article of it's own). Apparently, the given size refers to the moment when the shock wave will overtake the plasma; the air at the shock front will be heavly compressed, hence also hot and bright, but nowhere as bright as the plasma; also, the shock front is incandescent, eclipsing the fireball inside (I'm really struggling for words here, I hope you still get what I'm trying to tell). It was me who called it an initial fireball because it happens after a few milliseconds. Check that Trinity photo -- it's dated 25ms and depicts the shockfront, not the fireball. Maybe I should have named it not "artificial but an "abstract" concept, though. But I still hold the opinion that it's too simple to equal the burst pattern on a UFO floor to the size the fireball happens to have by the time the shock front catches up. --[[User:Schnobs|Schnobs]] 14:14, 7 November 2007 (PST)

:::::::::Ah, okay. I can't argue with that. And you are right, that picture is from the moment when the shock front ovtertakes the plasma. If memory serves, it's the shock front that does the damage, so I'm probably wrong in the figures, although thinking about it, there is no real way to apply the equation in the manner that I did. At that, it might be impossible to apply it at all.

:::::::::As to the small size of the fireball from both the Fat Man and Little Boy devices, you have to remember that both Hiroshima and Nagaski are located in natural depressions in the terrain. They are something like bowls, low plains surrounded by hills and mountains. The shock front was powerful enough that, when they contacted the surrounding terrain, they reflected back into the bowl. So the cities were destroyed by more than the initial shockwave and fireball - they got hit by the shockwave at least twice. And the area directly under "Ground Zero" (both bombs were air burst - Fat Man had a radar proximity trigger) got hit even worse, because it was caught by the shockwave and used as a reflector for the shockwave. - [[User:Shadow|Shadow]] 07:42, 8 November 2007 (PST)

::::::::::If you absolutely want to gauge the yield of a power source explosion, I suggest you compare it to the damage done by something we know. How many grenades stacked on top of each other would it take to damage the UFO interior (walls & floor) in the way a power source explosion does? Then look up the amount of explosives in a typical hand grenade and there you go. As to fireball size... there's an old saying, comparing arguments like this to the paralympics. Yet I can not resist.

::::::::::a) the size stated in that wikipedia article is by no means the final size. It's not as if the fireball would reach a certain size and suddenly vanish. It grows ever larger and starts to rise, becoming the cap of the mushroom cloud (by then it's no longer a ball and merely glowing, of course). Defining the fireball size as "the size at the moment when the shockwave catches up with the fireball" is somewhat arbitrary, but you've got to draw the line somewhere. And this definition refers to a time when it's still most certainly a ball, and it'S size directly related to the yield of the bomb (that is to say, other factors like terrain, wind, air pressure, moisture etc are relatively insignificant). That's alright for an article that deals with yield (as in kt or MT equivalents); damage is something else entirely, covered in another article.
::::::::::b) "Overtaking" sounds as if the shockwave would start somewhere inside the fireball, but of course the shockwave is not a seperate effect. It's the result of all the superheated air trying to expand rapidly. Some sources say the shockwave "detaches from" the fireball, which seems more apt.
::::::::::c) I guess you've misunderstood the Mach Stem: the reflected shock front moves faster in air that has already been accelerated by the main shock front; the reflected front will therefore catch up and combine with the main shock front, reinforcing it. ([http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild:Mach_effect_sequence.png diagram]). That's reinforcement, not amplification: the shock wave will not become more forceful because of the Mach effect, but it will lose power at a slower rate (which means same damage over a larger area). Please note that the development of the Mach Stem does not depend on any terrain features (in fact, a flat surface may be as good as it gets). In the past few days I've read more than I ever wanted to know about nuclear explosions, but all sources go along the lines that the valley at Nagasaki served to confine the damage, not a single word about reinforcement or amplification. Maybe destruction in the valley was so complete that a possible reinforcement would have made no difference any more. --[[User:Schnobs|Schnobs]] 13:42, 8 November 2007 (PST)
:Great armchair discussion, folks. Now if only you could bring some biology into it, I might jump in. Re: the indentation, I think the [[Talk:Main_Page#Discussion.2Ftalk_page_proposed_format|general idea]] is to only indent about 4-6 levels deep, then reset back to one. Also - and I hope I don't seem picky here, I love the flow of ideas - it seems like sometimes super and subscripting might be used better. A simple e.g. "m/s" is acceptable for meters per second, and sometimes it seems like e.g. "R = (Et2/ρ)1/5" might better be R = (Et2/ρ)1/5. On my PC, the extra super- and sub-scripting seems to be messing with line overlap.
:All that aside, please keep going! It's an interesting reality check, to check back from e.g. the damage of a standard grenade, to back-evaluate the damage caused. One crazy thing about X-COM explosions is how they have "hard wired" edges, as seen in e.g. [[Explosions#Playing_With_Fire]]. That's hard to figure into the parlor computations. The standard grenade is the only explosive that does not have "artificial clipping" of its blast radius performed. - [[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]] 17:04, 9 November 2007 (PST)

Wow, never would have guessed that me being bored on a train and trying to kill time by this would start such a long discussion. Well... nice :)
- tequilachef

Just in passing, maybe the reason continents don't evaporate when UFOs crash is the same reason there's not a mile-wide crater at Chernobyl - a nuclear meltdown is really nasty, but it doesn't turn the reactor into a bomb. And as for its use in explosives? How much of the material is used to create the bang and how much is used to control the bang? Even a gram of matter converted to energy can level a city - not really a weapon you wanna fire wildly in an atmosphere. - Kalaong

:To be more specific, my theory is that a [[UFO Power Source]] uses Elerium to generate antimatter in a controlled manner(like Bob Lazar's theorizes), and to generate the anti-gravity field that keeps the UFO flying. Plasma weapons are the same - the Elerium provides energy to generate the plasma, then uses an anti-gravity field to keep the plasma from dissipating as it flies across the battlefield. Fusion weapons(the stuff that goes boom) are the odd man out - they generate anti-matter in an ''out-of-control'' manner and use the anti-gravity field to ''control'' the resulting explosion. In other words, Elerium(In the game! I don't wanna sound like a conspiracy-obsessed geek, just your garden variety geek!) is like nuclear material-plus. You have to encourage it to make all that energy, and when you stop encouraging it, it only has a relatively small tantrum. You have to get really creative to make use Elerium as a Weapon of Mass ''Annihilation''. The aliens(And X-COM!) purposely limit the destructive potential of Elerium-based munitions and technology, despite this lowering the efficiency of the rare element. Otherwise a single [[Blaster Bomb]] would kill a city, leaving nothing for the aliens to abduct - or X-COM to protect. It's also why losing the [[Cydonia]] mission ends the game - the aliens could have reduced the Earth to beaded glass at any time,
but never consider it until their home base is threatened.

i recall vaugely that 70% of reacted antimatter becomes neutrinos in an incredibly short time frame--[[User:(name here)|(name here)]] 14:34, 13 March 2008 (PDT)

P.S. I was hoping somebody with a giant brain would come by and critique me like they did the above stuff? My knowledge of nuclear physics is pretty much limited to the contents of the Wikipedia article and Winchell Chung's "Atomic Rockets" website. - Kalaong 17:51, 11 March 2008 (EDT)

::I've just mentioned this discussion on the [[Talk:Main Page]]. I think it would be great if you guys made a page trying to explain how Elerium would act on the real world, using all those nice scientific formulas and commentaries. - [[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 23:35, 10 March 2008 (PDT)

==About Elerium mining...==
Re the "mining near Cydonia" issue. As per the UFOpedia:

"It is not naturally found in our solar system and cannot be reproduced."

However, in X-Com 3, [[Transtellar]] mines the stuff from Mars (and brings back regular shipments). Therefore, there must be a reserve near Cydonia.

While there is no official explanation, a meteorite seems to be the most likely cause of this.

- [[User:Bomb Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] 21:41, 31 May 2007 (PDT)

:My apologies. I do not have access to X-Com: Apocalypse, and was basing my data merely on what was said in the game. In light of the new information, it can be reverted if you desire. `[[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 21:56, 31 May 2007 (PDT)

After the events of XCOM, the last Elerium deposit was loaded into an Avenger to return to Cydonia for Elerium. The crew didn't found anything. After TFTD, conventional ships have been sent to Mars and detected a huge Elerium deposit several hundred kilometres from Cydonia, possibly stashed in the first war. Using that reserve, ship research skyrocketed, leading to development of faster-than-light engines. In addition, Interceptor (XCOM 4) says that, during the third war in the Frontier, scientists have eventually managed to create E-115 artificially.

- amitakartok

==Chuck Norris?==
There is a grave error on this page: Chuck Norris is GOD! He can't be killed ;) [[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 14:01, 11 March 2008 (PDT)

: What about if Steven Seagal, Bruce Lee and Mike Tyson ganged up on him and jumped him from behind after he'd had a few beers at the end of a hard day defending America from evil drug lords? [[User:Spike|Spike]] 16:41, 11 March 2008 (PDT)

::This is entertainingly silly, but now has nothing to do with the game. Start theorizing on how said demigods would fare against Mutons or ''somebody's'' going to have to delete this thread;)! Kalaong 16:28 13 March 2008 (EDT)
::: Mutons would be able to crush chuck norris beneath their endless legions of sucky terror units

==See Also==

[[Elirium]]